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Humiliating HIV Test Story
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One can support the idea of Korean doctors who want to know more English and be more connected and be against the idea of entitled NETs walking into Korean hospitals, speaking in English to the receptionists and being upset that they don't speak in English in their native country of Korea.

Seriously, to call the nurses rude but to not have any problem with that English-entitlement mentality is just appalling. The people of Korea do not exist to make your lives more convenient.
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postfundie



Joined: 28 May 2004

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
One can support the idea of Korean doctors who want to know more English and be more connected and be against the idea of entitled NETs walking into Korean hospitals, speaking in English to the receptionists and being upset that they don't speak in English in their native country of Korea.

Seriously, to call the nurses rude but to not have any problem with that English-entitlement mentality is just appalling. The people of Korea do not exist to make your lives more convenient.


Dear Steelrails/ Koreansentry sock,

The OP in this thread was irked by the nurses having little to no regard for his/her private medical information. This is what was considered rude. This is a problem that Koreans complain about too. In reality though, you don't give two schitz about it what Koreans complain about because you are concerned day and night with the 'entitled NETs' aka Westerners. (sorry Koreans, I'm not letting the foreigners chime in or support you)


Also the medical community here needs to be able to speak English(not just doctors you elitist nincompoop) They need this, in order to cultivate their medical tourism industry. So puhhhlease, you don't care....that's a road bump on your quest to go through every thread and respond like a dang robot.


Last edited by postfundie on Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mb1



Joined: 17 Feb 2013

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:49 pm    Post subject: CALL FOR TESTIMONIES Reply with quote

MINBYUN – Lawyers for a Democratic Society is currently seeking testimonies from those that have been subjected to mandatory HIV testing in order to receive or renew an E2 visa.

The Korean Government has yet to explain the link between classroom teaching and HIV infection, require that Korean nationals with the same employment undergo testing, or provide any official data to support a link between sex crimes and E2 visa holders. Due to the discriminatory nature of the testing and under the premise that it is in violation with Korea's commitment to the International Convention on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, we will be sending a letter of allegation to the UN Special Rapporteur on contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination and xenophobia and related intolerance.

If you are interested in giving your testimony please send the following information to E2testing@minbyun.or.kr by February 23, 2013.

Name:
Age:
Nationality:
Date of the incident(s):
Location(city, state, and if possible, district(gu)) of the incident(s):
Date and length of contract(s):
Details such as the following:

-If you were allowed to choose the hospital where you were tested
-If the hospital staff communicated with you in English or if you needed a translator
-If you were provided with any education or training on the prevention of HIV
-If you ever felt mistreated or harassed related to HIV/AIDS
-If you were pressured to take the test more than once within a year
-If your results were reported directly to you or through an employee at your school, the immigration office, or the MOE
-If you feel that your test results resulted in harassment or termination
-If you refused to be tested and subsequently were denied a visa or terminated

Please provide us with a way to contact you for further details. Depending on the volume of replies we may not be able to respond immediately, but we will follow up with those that will be included in the report.

Thank you.

http://minbyun.org/english/archives/540

[b]REMEMBER - Testimonies must be SENT not posted here. [/b]

Trolls will be ignored
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Dear Steelrails/ Koreansentry sock,


First off, anyone familiar with me and/or Koreansentry knows that I have nothing to do with that site, nor do I possess multiple accounts.

Nice unfounded accusation.

Quote:
The OP in this thread was irked by the nurses having little to no regard for his/her private medical information. This is what was considered rude.


Yes, and the discussion is about the evens that led up to that. The nurses didn't just suddenly blurt out "AIDS!!!". That was a result of a process that was heavily influenced by the OP's actions.

Please address the OP's actions. Were there any reasonable actions that he could have taken to prevent such a situation from occurring. There are several.

The issue I have is blaming the cross-cultural misunderstanding on the native's of the country rather than the guest. Why do the Korean nurses bear sole responsibility for this? Isn't this a case where both parties bear responsibility?

Quote:
Also, The medical community here being able to speak English (not just doctors you elitist nincompoop)and being able to cultivate their medical tourism industry...please, you don't care....


English please.

First, the people conducting routine health exams are not those involved with the medical tourism industry. I don't think people fly 2000 miles to get a liver/TB/HIV test and a chest x-ray.

Second, while some do possess English skill, not all do, and you should not expect them to. The English is primarily related to the English we learn in school or specialized medical terminology.

"Go straight and turn right at the corner" does not equal "I'd like to have my annual physical".

As I've said, students in countries like the US or Canada take just as many years of a foreign language, that doesn't mean one should expect them to be able to deal with an agitated native French or Spanish speaker coming in and requesting medical procedures.

Which do you think is more likely to get you the correct medical care? Persisting in talking to English to non-native speakers or attempting to find the correct term in their native language?

Bottom line: You are in a foreign country. English is to be appreciated, not expected and you are certainly not entitled to it.
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postfundie



Joined: 28 May 2004

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You don't "belong" here because you are not a citizen of this nation. Many are not even Permanent Residents. However those that are can do things like vote.


Why did I call you a sock for Koreansentry? Because you write things like this! In your mixed up brain, 'the right to complain' is confused with 'entitlement' ...You don't belong here so people can treat you like sh*t. This is your argument.

Quote:
First, the people conducting routine health exams are not those involved with the medical tourism industry. I don't think people fly 2000 miles to get a liver/TB/HIV test and a chest x-ray.


uhh before you have surgery over here, they usually do tests on you. Are you telling me that the people running those tests shouldn't learn English. Also the people doing those tests don't WANT to learn English?

Anyway back to your self-appointed position as big boss of all foreigners in Korea. Keep going through threads justifying any and all problems in this country, just because you feel the need to complain about foreigners first and foremost and till the end of time. Keep it up you one-trick pony.
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NightOwl71



Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: Humiliating HIV Test Story Reply with quote

Benicio wrote:
One nurse was so pleased with herself that she finally understood that she blurted in a very loud voice which the whole room could hear “AIDSuh”.

A sudden hush went over the whole room as the two nurses said again to each other, very loudly, “AIDSuh”.

Then, one nurse called over to another nurse across the large room and yelled “AIDSuh” while pointing at my co-worker and me.


Steelrails, I think you may be missing this key part of the story. The OP acknowledges the "eureka!" moment. It's an understandable event. However what immediately followed was the problem.

After the moment of realization of the procedure the OP was there for, the nurses could have quietly taken care of it. They didn't. They shouted it across the room! That wasn't part of the communication korean/english problem at all, it is a disregard for the patient's privacy. That is the concern.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why did I call you a sock for Koreansentry? Because you write things like this! In your mixed up brain, 'the right to complain' is confused with 'entitlement' ...You don't belong here so people can treat you like sh*t. This is your argument.


Way to take a quote from a completely different thread and use it out of context.

The context of your quote was people and feeling like they have a sense of "belonging" in Korea. There was a reason "belong" was in quotes, that meant the word was not meant to be taken literally and legally but rather was referring to that emotional state of "belonging" somewhere. The reason I said they didn't feel like they "belong" is that they purposefully do things outside the cultural norm and refuse to alter their behavior. It is no different than a Korean person studying int he US, eating Korean food, speaking Korean, keeping Korean manners, arguing with Americans about how they do things and then complaining that he/she doesn't feel like they "belong" to America.

As for what my argument is, I have said- that the reason for the incident is in part because of the nurses AND in part because of the OP. The OP bears some responsibility for this incident, something many people seem unwilling to acknowledge but which is manifestly clear.

Again, the OP made the following mistakes-

1) Demanding the nurses communicate with him in English rather than attempting to use some Korean

2) Asking for an AIDs test instead of a blood test or general physical

3) Failing to employ things like a dictionary, cell phone call to co-teacher, 10 minute search on Naver, etc.

Those three mistakes strongly contributed to the incident taking place. It is likely that if he had pursued the proper course on just one of those 3 things, the outcome would have been different. This does not excuse the subsequent outburst by the nurses, but it does shoulder the OP with some of the blame for the incident.



Quote:
uhh before you have surgery over here, they usually do tests on you. Are you telling me that the people running those tests shouldn't learn English. Also the people doing those tests don't WANT to learn English?


1) Medical tourism is almost always done in private clinics, NOT in public hospitals.

2) Most of those engaged in medical tourism are from SE Asia or China or are ethnic Koreans overseas. Do you feel that English speakers are more important than Chinese speakers? Are they more entitled to health services in Korea than Chinese people are entitled to Chinese services in Korea? Should the medical facilities focus on the majority (Chinese) or on the minority?

Quote:
Are you telling me that the people running those tests shouldn't learn English


I think they should study their medicine more than their English. Medicine is based on science and science is based on mathematics. English is not the Lingua Franca of the world, mathematics is.

I don't think they should be so focused on English to serve a handful of foreigners as they should focus on their medicine which helps everyone, or on their Korean which is the overwhelming majority of patients.

But it's all about us, isn't it? Me me me me me. Screw those Koreans and Chinese. Me, the English speaker is most important.

Quote:
Keep going through threads justifying any and all problems in this country, just because you feel the need to complain about foreigners first and foremost and till the end of time. Keep it up you one-trick pony.


And keep believing that you do no wrong. Get into a situation like the OP and use the OP's methods and then complain about the result and blame everyone else but yourself.

Quote:
After the moment of realization of the procedure the OP was there for, the nurses could have quietly taken care of it. They didn't. They shouted it across the room! That wasn't part of the communication korean/english problem at all, it is a disregard for the patient's privacy. That is the concern.


I agree and have acknowledged multiple times that the nurses subsequent actions were inexcusable. However, as I showed above, the OP bears the responsibility for the run-up to the incident. Basically, if you wanted something like that to happen, the best way to bring it about would have been to do what the OP did.

Basically, the OP was fairly disrespectful to the nurses and then was disrespected in turn. Put yourself in the nurses shoes only back home, wouldn't you feel a bit put off if some Korean just came up to you and started demanding things in Korean?

Or would it be okay for your co-teacher to just start barking orders at you in Korean and getting upset that you don't understand?
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postfundie



Joined: 28 May 2004

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


Steelrails, I think you may be missing this key part of the story. The OP acknowledges the "eureka!" moment. It's an understandable event. However what immediately followed was the problem. 

After the moment of realization of the procedure the OP was there for, the nurses could have quietly taken care of it. They didn't. They shouted it across the room! That wasn't part of the communication korean/english problem at all, it is a disregard for the patient's privacy. That is the concern.




This can't be and never will never be the MAIN concern of steelrails..he is on here because he is appalled by the native English teachers.. He spends just about zero time and zero space being appalled at reverse racism or any other nonsense that goes on here....unless its to remind u of how bad America is.. 

I am irritated by people who only speak one language .. I say the whole world world should be bilingual... However I don't have a monolithic view of culture like he does .. If a Korean guy goes to America and is appalled by the number of fat people and the unhealthy diet then I will be right there with him... Not sitting there telling the Korean guy to shut up and eat "American food."   

Some Koreans complain about the exact same thing as the op.  they don't like nurses blurting out their private info for all to hear. I even talk to Korean doctors who acknowledge that it's a problem..and that they shouldn't be doing it.. Or a Korean that goes to the OBGYN and the nurses talk openly about the way she trims her bush... Very unprofessional and wrong! Oops but I am forgetting that I can not complain about the same thing as my Korean brother or sister does because that makes me guilty of the crime of whine and an entitled westerner who steelrails feels compelled to control...
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How is your Korean post fudie?? What languages other than English do you speak?

I like travel and part of the fun of travel is differences. different food, different language, different attitudes and manners.

Not everyone wants a homogenized world of pizza and Walmart.

The concept of privacy is different in Asia. Very different.

I mean really whats the big deal if the nurse had blurted out "chest x-ray" would that have been humiliating?
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
his can't be and never will never be the MAIN concern of steelrails..he is on here because he is appalled by the native English teachers.. He spends just about zero time and zero space being appalled at reverse racism or any other nonsense that goes on here....unless its to remind u of how bad America is..


Really? Do you even know anything about my posts on the CE forum?

Lots of writings about my 'motivations', care at all to address the points I made and whether or not they are valid? I'm willing to stick to the issues and the point I raised-

Does the OP bear some responsibility for bringing the situation about?

Quote:
However I don't have a monolithic view of culture like he does .. If a Korean guy goes to America and is appalled by the number of fat people and the unhealthy diet then I will be right there with him... Not sitting there telling the Korean guy to shut up and eat "American food."



Would you believe that in dealing with Korean people back home, I actually did the same thing? And of course the same accusations, this time from Koreans- Identity issues, must be an American Apologist (not those terms), hates Koreans and immigrants, etc. etc.

It's basic respect for other peoples and other countries. When you are in their country they get the benefit of the doubt and you should conform to them, not they to you.

Quote:
but I am forgetting that I can not complain about the same thing as my Korean brother or sister does because that makes me guilty of the crime of whine and an entitled westerner who steelrails feels compelled to control...


It's not what they complain about it, but how they do it. Have you noticed that when posters complain about something happening to them and they blame an individual, seldom if at all do the apologists come out. When do they come out? When the person blames the culture and passes judgment on the people.

It's the difference between saying "I went to Dubai and at this one restaurant, the wait staff was really rude" and saying "Arabian culture is rude when it comes to customer service". Or "Arabs need to work on restaurant etiquette". Do you see the difference? What motivates the first sentence? What motivates the next two?

Think about all the studies in the US that show that many white Americans perceive racism towards blacks as largely gone, while many black Americans perceive it as largely still existing. Perhaps maybe one group isn't as attuned to the racism it subtly projects, just as the case of reverse racism may not be as keenly perceived by the minority group.

Unless you believe that human beings are naturally better at perceiving their own flaws than recognizing the flaws in others.
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Los Angeloser



Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back home someone got fired for having HIV/AIDS and called the unemployment office, told his story to the unemployment officer who wrote/typed the fact into the offices software program but got fired for typing "HIV/AIDS." I guess he was only suppose to type "disease" even though the only people who would've had access to the info. are those who work at the unemployment office.
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le-paul



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so i goes to the doctors office to get me dirty foreigner tests done. Doctor calls me into his office and says "well, mr le-paul. Your tester results haver come backuh anduh youer havuh aids". 'What!' i exclaimed, a million thoughts rushing through my head 'How?!'. 'Oh, sorry. i meant youuh dontuh havuh aidsuh, ha ha ha'.
I laughed all the way home...
Funny basterd...
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postfundie



Joined: 28 May 2004

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


Steelrails, I think you may be missing this key part of the story. The OP acknowledges the "eureka!" moment. It's an understandable event. However what immediately followed was the problem.

After the moment of realization of the procedure the OP was there for, the nurses could have quietly taken care of it. They didn't. They shouted it across the room! That wasn't part of the communication korean/english problem at all, it is a disregard for the patient's privacy. That is the concern.




This can't be and never will never be the MAIN concern of Mr. Steelrails..he is on here because he is appalled by the native English teachers.. He spends just about zero time and zero space being appalled at reverse racism or any other nonsense that goes on here....unless its to remind u of how bad America is..

I am irritated by people who only speak one language .. I say the whole world world should be bilingual... However I don't have a monolithic view of culture like he does .. If a Korean guy goes to America and is appalled by the number of fat people and the unhealthy diet then I will be right there with him... Not sitting there telling the Korean guy to shut up and eat "American food."

Some Koreans complain about the exact same thing as the op. They don't like nurses blurting out their private info for all to hear. I even talk to Korean doctors who acknowledge that it's a problem..and that they shouldn't be doing it.. Or a Korean that goes to the OBGYN and the nurses talk openly about the way she trims her bush or openly speculate on her sex life. ... Very unprofessional and wrong! Oops but I am forgetting that I can not complain about the same thing as my Korean brother or sister does because that makes me guilty of the crime of 'whine' and an entitled westerner who steelrails feels compelled to control.....of course I really like Korea and dream of how much better it would be if people would stop defending stupid stuff that needs to change.. (heck 10 years ago, I don't remember seeing advertisements in the subway about respecting each other's personal space and not ramming into one another, but now we have them. GOOD.)[/quote]
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since what happened to the OP happened FOUR YEARS AGO...one would think that he's got over it by now. And seeing as how he's stopped posting since then he would probably appreciate the rest of us giving this ancient thread a rest.
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