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State of the ESL economy: Is the party over?
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English Matt



Joined: 12 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xingyiman wrote:
Dharma_Blue wrote:
ardis wrote:
The party isn't over, considering most people my age are still working dead end jobs back home and barely have any money for excess pleasures once they are finished paying their home, car, and gas bills. I have a lot of friends with good qualifications in their fields that have been fired just because their companies can't afford them.


Depending on how you define "dead end job" you could also argue that many, if not most, EFL jobs in Korea are dead end in the long-term..


Some people's goal in life is to saddle themselves with a mortgage, have 2-3 kids and maybe vacation 5 times the rest of their lives. If that's what will truly make them happy then I say ok. Personally unless the mortgage is in Jackson Hole Wyoming, with a spectacular view of the Grand Tetons, that scenario probably would not be too palpatable to me. If i can live as an ESL teacher and twice a year enjoy a cool vacation somewhere the rest of my relatives would be lucky to see once in their lives, then I would be far happier than busting my butt working toward an unattainalbe goal for the rest of my years.
That's the problem with too many people I knew back home - they "settled". One wanted to be a Navy Pilot - eventually became a Navy accountant. Another had a dream of becoming a writer but ended up doing a 9 to 5 gig. Another really wanted to meet the girl of his dreams. Ended getting a plump girl pregnant who left him shortly thereafter with a kid. People lose their vision and basically end up living the textbook example of what they would formerly consider a ddong life.
If I could go back and look at my life and what I've done so far 10 years prior my reaction would probably have been "WOW!" After viewing thier lives my friends might just have every reason not to go on.


I meet few people who want to make EFL their life's work, but for those that have found in English teaching a vocation....well, kudos.

Personally, although I find English teaching fairly fulfilling it is not and has never been something I have considered giving my life over to. Nor would I be happy living in this country (and, by a truckload, the number of people I have met here who do not find Korea a good fit for them far outnumbers the (very) few I have met here who like it and want to stay).

Subjectively speaking, for myself and many others I have met here, there are far better countries to live in and where you can enjoy a higher quality of life. Not everybody cares about making a fortune and owning several properties or land, nor do a lot of people need tons of vacation to escape a country they love living in. I for one would be quite happy living in Europe earning enough money to enjoy my life, have a couple of vacations a year, and put away a bit of money for the future, whilst pursuing a career that I REALLY want to pursue, rather than one that is just alright.

Not everybody settles. Additionally, setting up the idea of a life in Korea as something for others to gaze at in awe and envy is stretching things a little. Few people I know 'settled' for anything in their lives....they worked hard and they earn good money. For instance, looking at my circle of friends back home....one is a Geologist who works for NASA, another is an Art lecturer who works at The Royal Academy of Art in London, one is the Diary Secretary to the leader of one of the main political parties in the UK, another friend is a Manager at KPMG on $80000 a year, another guy is working on his PhD and is hoping to get a junior teaching position at his University next year, two others are qualified teachers, another is training to be a Doctor.........

What I am trying to say is that disparaging people who choose not to stay in Korea and pursue a career in the TEFL industry here is a little rich, as...you know what....there are most likely former TEFLers who spent time in Korea who look back on the people who stay here and think,

"There but for the grace of God am I!"
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asylum seeker



Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thiuda wrote:
asylum seeker wrote:
The vast majority of us don't have Phds or jobs that have security or guaranteed pay raises so it seems you are the one who's doing most of the projecting here. For the vast majority who only have BAs or MAs and are working at hagwons and public schools the future here in Korea is not as bright as you try to make out.


You're right, many of us don't have PhDs, but that's not the point. The point is that if you work hard, if you put in the time and effort, and continue to qualify yourself further, you CAN get a secure, high paying job. PRagic wasn't born with a PhD, he earned it. He wasn't born with a secure, high paying job, he qualified himself for it.

There are great jobs in Korea, within ESL and outwith, but you're not going to get such a job from the get-go, nor are you going to get such a job if you don't put in some effort. Oh, and networking really helps.


I'm not saying that it's impossible to get a secure high-paying job here and of course those who make the most efforts will do better but the fact is for most of us this will not be the case. I would say the amount of truly secure jobs with guaranteed pay raises here would only be around 1 or 2% of the job market, if that.
The original point of this thread was that increasing job market saturation in Korea will lead to a continued deterioration in the wages and conditions of most jobs here. The fact that a tiny percentage of people here (like Pragic) have really good, secure, high-paying jobs does not invalidate that point.
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Demophobe



Joined: 17 May 2004

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

English Matt wrote:
xingyiman wrote:
Dharma_Blue wrote:
ardis wrote:
The party isn't over, considering most people my age are still working dead end jobs back home and barely have any money for excess pleasures once they are finished paying their home, car, and gas bills. I have a lot of friends with good qualifications in their fields that have been fired just because their companies can't afford them.


Depending on how you define "dead end job" you could also argue that many, if not most, EFL jobs in Korea are dead end in the long-term..


Some people's goal in life is to saddle themselves with a mortgage, have 2-3 kids and maybe vacation 5 times the rest of their lives. If that's what will truly make them happy then I say ok. Personally unless the mortgage is in Jackson Hole Wyoming, with a spectacular view of the Grand Tetons, that scenario probably would not be too palpatable to me. If i can live as an ESL teacher and twice a year enjoy a cool vacation somewhere the rest of my relatives would be lucky to see once in their lives, then I would be far happier than busting my butt working toward an unattainalbe goal for the rest of my years.
That's the problem with too many people I knew back home - they "settled". One wanted to be a Navy Pilot - eventually became a Navy accountant. Another had a dream of becoming a writer but ended up doing a 9 to 5 gig. Another really wanted to meet the girl of his dreams. Ended getting a plump girl pregnant who left him shortly thereafter with a kid. People lose their vision and basically end up living the textbook example of what they would formerly consider a ddong life.
If I could go back and look at my life and what I've done so far 10 years prior my reaction would probably have been "WOW!" After viewing thier lives my friends might just have every reason not to go on.


I meet few people who want to make EFL their life's work, but for those that have found in English teaching a vocation....well, kudos.

Personally, although I find English teaching fairly fulfilling it is not and has never been something I have considered giving my life over to. Nor would I be happy living in this country (and, by a truckload, the number of people I have met here who do not find Korea a good fit for them far outnumbers the (very) few I have met here who like it and want to stay).

Subjectively speaking, for myself and many others I have met here, there are far better countries to live in and where you can enjoy a higher quality of life. Not everybody cares about making a fortune and owning several properties or land, nor do a lot of people need tons of vacation to escape a country they love living in. I for one would be quite happy living in Europe earning enough money to enjoy my life, have a couple of vacations a year, and put away a bit of money for the future, whilst pursuing a career that I REALLY want to pursue, rather than one that is just alright.

Not everybody settles. Additionally, setting up the idea of a life in Korea as something for others to gaze at in awe and envy is stretching things a little. Few people I know 'settled' for anything in their lives....they worked hard and they earn good money. For instance, looking at my circle of friends back home....one is a Geologist who works for NASA, another is an Art lecturer who works at The Royal Academy of Art in London, one is the Diary Secretary to the leader of one of the main political parties in the UK, another friend is a Manager at KPMG on $80000 a year, another guy is working on his PhD and is hoping to get a junior teaching position at his University next year, two others are qualified teachers, another is training to be a Doctor.........

What I am trying to say is that disparaging people who choose not to stay in Korea and pursue a career in the TEFL industry here is a little rich, as...you know what....there are most likely former TEFLers who spent time in Korea who look back on the people who stay here and think,

"There but for the grace of God am I!"


EFL gypsies...hangin' with the transients.

Anyhow, sounds like you have it all figured out. Keep it up then....keep it right up.
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Dharma_Blue



Joined: 11 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

asylum seeker wrote:
I'm not saying that it's impossible to get a secure high-paying job here and of course those who make the most efforts will do better but the fact is for most of us this will not be the case. I would say the amount of truly secure jobs with guaranteed pay raises here would only be around 1 or 2% of the job market, if that.


And what real proof do you have to back that statistic up besides anecdotal evidence or personal opinion?
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asylum seeker



Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dharma_Blue wrote:
asylum seeker wrote:
I'm not saying that it's impossible to get a secure high-paying job here and of course those who make the most efforts will do better but the fact is for most of us this will not be the case. I would say the amount of truly secure jobs with guaranteed pay raises here would only be around 1 or 2% of the job market, if that.


And what real proof do you have to back that statistic up besides anecdotal evidence or personal opinion?


I'm not going to claim to have real proof. It's an opinion based on everything I've seen and read since I've been here. Welcome to the internet. What proof do you have that job conditions and wages will be rosy in the future? Again it's just your opinion as well.
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Dharma_Blue



Joined: 11 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demophobe wrote:
English Matt wrote:
xingyiman wrote:
Dharma_Blue wrote:
ardis wrote:
The party isn't over, considering most people my age are still working dead end jobs back home and barely have any money for excess pleasures once they are finished paying their home, car, and gas bills. I have a lot of friends with good qualifications in their fields that have been fired just because their companies can't afford them.


Depending on how you define "dead end job" you could also argue that many, if not most, EFL jobs in Korea are dead end in the long-term..


Some people's goal in life is to saddle themselves with a mortgage, have 2-3 kids and maybe vacation 5 times the rest of their lives. If that's what will truly make them happy then I say ok. Personally unless the mortgage is in Jackson Hole Wyoming, with a spectacular view of the Grand Tetons, that scenario probably would not be too palpatable to me. If i can live as an ESL teacher and twice a year enjoy a cool vacation somewhere the rest of my relatives would be lucky to see once in their lives, then I would be far happier than busting my butt working toward an unattainalbe goal for the rest of my years.
That's the problem with too many people I knew back home - they "settled". One wanted to be a Navy Pilot - eventually became a Navy accountant. Another had a dream of becoming a writer but ended up doing a 9 to 5 gig. Another really wanted to meet the girl of his dreams. Ended getting a plump girl pregnant who left him shortly thereafter with a kid. People lose their vision and basically end up living the textbook example of what they would formerly consider a ddong life.
If I could go back and look at my life and what I've done so far 10 years prior my reaction would probably have been "WOW!" After viewing thier lives my friends might just have every reason not to go on.


I meet few people who want to make EFL their life's work, but for those that have found in English teaching a vocation....well, kudos.

Personally, although I find English teaching fairly fulfilling it is not and has never been something I have considered giving my life over to. Nor would I be happy living in this country (and, by a truckload, the number of people I have met here who do not find Korea a good fit for them far outnumbers the (very) few I have met here who like it and want to stay).

Subjectively speaking, for myself and many others I have met here, there are far better countries to live in and where you can enjoy a higher quality of life. Not everybody cares about making a fortune and owning several properties or land, nor do a lot of people need tons of vacation to escape a country they love living in. I for one would be quite happy living in Europe earning enough money to enjoy my life, have a couple of vacations a year, and put away a bit of money for the future, whilst pursuing a career that I REALLY want to pursue, rather than one that is just alright.

Not everybody settles. Additionally, setting up the idea of a life in Korea as something for others to gaze at in awe and envy is stretching things a little. Few people I know 'settled' for anything in their lives....they worked hard and they earn good money. For instance, looking at my circle of friends back home....one is a Geologist who works for NASA, another is an Art lecturer who works at The Royal Academy of Art in London, one is the Diary Secretary to the leader of one of the main political parties in the UK, another friend is a Manager at KPMG on $80000 a year, another guy is working on his PhD and is hoping to get a junior teaching position at his University next year, two others are qualified teachers, another is training to be a Doctor.........

What I am trying to say is that disparaging people who choose not to stay in Korea and pursue a career in the TEFL industry here is a little rich, as...you know what....there are most likely former TEFLers who spent time in Korea who look back on the people who stay here and think,

"There but for the grace of God am I!"


EFL gypsies...hangin' with the transients.

Anyhow, sounds like you have it all figured out. Keep it up then....keep it right up.


The funny thing is, people like this who harp on about needing to find a REAL career are often the ones who go back home home after their first couple of contracts, get a taste of reality (ie realize that a liberal arts degree is worth jackshit in the jobmarket), and are back in korea and back on Dave's a few months later..
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English Matt



Joined: 12 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^

Mate, don't mistake me for you. I'm 27 and graduated when I was 20. I've lived in 4 countries on 3 continents since then and have in excess of $50000 in the bank. I've experienced reality before.

People who head home with no real idea of what they want to do with their lives, with no real plan and only a few thousand dollars in the bank are the ones who fall foul of their own poor foresight and end up coming back....and I would venture to say not knowing what to do with one's life is what keeps a fair few people here also.

I already speak 2 languages and am working on a third. I will be moving to Germany in the summer where I will be brushing up my German and attempting to land an internship with a charity through the European Commission. Afterwards I will be going back to University to get my Masters....perhaps in Berlin, perhaps in Amsterdam....after which I will look for any and all job openings in the public and NGO sectors.

I have experience of the 'real world', knowledge of what I want to do with my life, the money to get me there and the willingness to bet on my own future.....if you choose to settle in Korea teaching English don't try to make yourself feel better by berating those who have goals and are willing to do what they need to get there.

In addition I never said you or anybody else has 'settled' for something less than you want in life, but it sure smells that way when you use the tired old response of "You'll be back" to attack those who choose to leave Korea and pursue a future outside of this country and outside of TEFL.
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Demophobe



Joined: 17 May 2004

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

English Matt wrote:
^

Mate, don't mistake me for you. I'm 27 and graduated when I was 20. I've lived in 4 countries on 3 continents since then and have in excess of $50000 in the bank. I've experienced reality before.

People who head home with no real idea of what they want to do with their lives, with no real plan and only a few thousand dollars in the bank are the ones who fall foul of their own poor foresight and end up coming back....and I would venture to say not knowing what to do with one's life is what keeps a fair few people here also.

I already speak 2 languages and am working on a third. I will be moving to Germany in the summer where I will be brushing up my German and attempting to land an internship with a charity through the European Commission. Afterwards I will be going back to University to get my Masters....perhaps in Berlin, perhaps in Amsterdam....after which I will look for any and all job openings in the public and NGO sectors.

I have experience of the 'real world', knowledge of what I want to do with my life, the money to get me there and the willingness to bet on my own future.....if you choose to settle in Korea teaching English don't try to make yourself feel better by berating those who have goals and are willing to do what they need to get there.

In addition I never said you or anybody else has 'settled' for something less than you want in life, but it sure smells that way when you use the tired old response of "You'll be back" to attack those who choose to leave Korea and pursue a future outside of this country and outside of TEFL.



Bravo your life. Take a rest, handsome Matt teacher.
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Dharma_Blue



Joined: 11 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

English Matt wrote:
^

Mate, don't mistake me for you. I'm 27 and graduated when I was 20. I've lived in 4 countries on 3 continents since then and have in excess of $50000 in the bank. I've experienced reality before.

People who head home with no real idea of what they want to do with their lives, with no real plan and only a few thousand dollars in the bank are the ones who fall foul of their own poor foresight and end up coming back....and I would venture to say not knowing what to do with one's life is what keeps a fair few people here also.

I already speak 2 languages and am working on a third. I will be moving to Germany in the summer where I will be brushing up my German and attempting to land an internship with a charity through the European Commission. Afterwards I will be going back to University to get my Masters....perhaps in Berlin, perhaps in Amsterdam....after which I will look for any and all job openings in the public and NGO sectors.

I have experience of the 'real world', knowledge of what I want to do with my life, the money to get me there and the willingness to bet on my own future.....if you choose to settle in Korea teaching English don't try to make yourself feel better by berating those who have goals and are willing to do what they need to get there.

In addition I never said you or anybody else has 'settled' for something less than you want in life, but it sure smells that way when you use the tired old response of "You'll be back" to attack those who choose to leave Korea and pursue a future outside of this country and outside of TEFL.


NGO/Development/Non-profit sector eh? hmm.. Long hours, crap pay, high stress, and difficult to break into, especially with the big boys and multilaterals. If that's your passion, though, by all means..

http://www.usnews.com/money/careers/articles/2007/12/19/overrated-career-nonprofit-manager.html
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English Matt



Joined: 12 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demophobe wrote:
English Matt wrote:
^

Mate, don't mistake me for you. I'm 27 and graduated when I was 20. I've lived in 4 countries on 3 continents since then and have in excess of $50000 in the bank. I've experienced reality before.

People who head home with no real idea of what they want to do with their lives, with no real plan and only a few thousand dollars in the bank are the ones who fall foul of their own poor foresight and end up coming back....and I would venture to say not knowing what to do with one's life is what keeps a fair few people here also.

I already speak 2 languages and am working on a third. I will be moving to Germany in the summer where I will be brushing up my German and attempting to land an internship with a charity through the European Commission. Afterwards I will be going back to University to get my Masters....perhaps in Berlin, perhaps in Amsterdam....after which I will look for any and all job openings in the public and NGO sectors.

I have experience of the 'real world', knowledge of what I want to do with my life, the money to get me there and the willingness to bet on my own future.....if you choose to settle in Korea teaching English don't try to make yourself feel better by berating those who have goals and are willing to do what they need to get there.

In addition I never said you or anybody else has 'settled' for something less than you want in life, but it sure smells that way when you use the tired old response of "You'll be back" to attack those who choose to leave Korea and pursue a future outside of this country and outside of TEFL.



Bravo your life. Take a rest, handsome Matt teacher.


I'm not trying to big up my life, rather I get fed up of people on this website who try to convince everybody on here that we all live in Shangri-la and that anybody who wants to leave and do something else is a naive, recent-grad who is making a dumb choice. Paticularly someone younger than me, who has spent less time in Korea than I have, doesn't yet have the 'real world' experience he touts, and plans to come back to Korea in the future. In every way he was mistaking me for him.

I don't want people who are not happy here to be scared into re-signing again and again and giving up on any dreams they once had, by being scared into believing that this is the best they can hope to achieve. People talk about people back home 'settling', well that is too often what I have observed in the long-termers I have met here - they have settled for a life in Korea, a life that to many people is simply dreary in comparison to the multitude of others they could lead.

It simply isn't the truth that this is the better place to be, and TEFL the best 'career' one could hope to achieve in their life, for many people and I would prefer that those of you who have chosen to stay here would stop beating the same old tired drum, "You'll be back." Ask yourself why it is being repeated ad hominem on this site: for the benefit of those who read such advice, or to make the person typing it feel better about the choices they have made in their own life?

For most, as youtuber pointed out, Korea should be a place that one comes to for a year or two for the money and / or the experience. After that they should, if at all possible, get out and pursue the life they have always wanted to live.
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English Matt



Joined: 12 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dharma_Blue wrote:
English Matt wrote:
^

Mate, don't mistake me for you. I'm 27 and graduated when I was 20. I've lived in 4 countries on 3 continents since then and have in excess of $50000 in the bank. I've experienced reality before.

People who head home with no real idea of what they want to do with their lives, with no real plan and only a few thousand dollars in the bank are the ones who fall foul of their own poor foresight and end up coming back....and I would venture to say not knowing what to do with one's life is what keeps a fair few people here also.

I already speak 2 languages and am working on a third. I will be moving to Germany in the summer where I will be brushing up my German and attempting to land an internship with a charity through the European Commission. Afterwards I will be going back to University to get my Masters....perhaps in Berlin, perhaps in Amsterdam....after which I will look for any and all job openings in the public and NGO sectors.

I have experience of the 'real world', knowledge of what I want to do with my life, the money to get me there and the willingness to bet on my own future.....if you choose to settle in Korea teaching English don't try to make yourself feel better by berating those who have goals and are willing to do what they need to get there.

In addition I never said you or anybody else has 'settled' for something less than you want in life, but it sure smells that way when you use the tired old response of "You'll be back" to attack those who choose to leave Korea and pursue a future outside of this country and outside of TEFL.


NGO/Development/Non-profit sector eh? hmm.. Long hours, crap pay, high stress, and difficult to break into, especially with the big boys and multilaterals. If that's your passion, though, by all means..

http://www.usnews.com/money/careers/articles/2007/12/19/overrated-career-nonprofit-manager.html


Yes, what a great source you provided there - you clearly know of what you speak. I'd prefer to go with my sources who are friends and relatives who work for such organisations, who tell me that they love their work and enjoy getting up in the morning because of this. I'll also look back on my own experience working in the Homelessness sector and can tell you that, at the organisation I worked for, the minimum pay was £18500 a year for Admin Assistants and the max was £50000 a year for the CEO. These jobs are difficult to come by as you need relevant skills, experience and training (they don't have the money to spare to train you up).....doesn't mean they are impossible to get however. Nor is the pay terrible.

I currently work 17 hours a week and have 3 months of vacation a year. I am bored out of my mind and would rather be working long hours for a job that I had a greater passion for and one that I felt had deeper meaning than edutaining a bunch of Korean teenagers.
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Dharma_Blue



Joined: 11 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

English Matt wrote:

I don't want people who are not happy here to be scared into re-signing again and again and giving up on any dreams they once had, by being scared into believing that this is the best they can hope to achieve. People talk about people back home 'settling', well that is too often what I have observed in the long-termers I have met here - they have settled for a life in Korea, a life that to many people is simply dreary in comparison to the multitude of others they could lead.


To each his own I guess. I would, in many ways, consider the 'typical' life back home to be just as dreary as Korea.

What makes our own countries back home so special anyway? Better food choices? "Diversity" (ie a more subtle form of racism underlying rampant political correctness)? Fat women who aren't afraid to wear tight clothes? Live music?

you can have it all Rolling Eyes
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Thiuda



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist für Sklaven geschaffen, für Wesen ohne Geist.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

asylum seeker wrote:
I'm not saying that it's impossible to get a secure high-paying job here and of course those who make the most efforts will do better but the fact is for most of us this will not be the case. I would say the amount of truly secure jobs with guaranteed pay raises here would only be around 1 or 2% of the job market, if that.


You're missing my point. I agree with you when you say that there is a lower number of secure, high-paying jobs than there are one-year contract based positions that offer no yearly salary increases. You'll find that entry-level positions always outnumber higher level jobs, regardless of the country/field you're working in - employers need more Indians than they need Chiefs. It just so happens that in language teaching the demand for Indians is much higher than it is for Chiefs.

If you want to get a good position, you have to work hard to get there. Do a teaching cert, get an MA, do some research, consider getting a PhD, get into teacher training, think about niches that you might fill...etc. If you're not willing to go the extra mile, why should you (2nd person plural) become a Chief?

asylum seeker wrote:
The original point of this thread was that increasing job market saturation in Korea will lead to a continued deterioration in the wages and conditions of most jobs here. The fact that a tiny percentage of people here (like Pragic) have really good, secure, high-paying jobs does not invalidate that point.


I don't see it that way. Entry level wages have increased over the past decade that I've worked in Korea, from averaging around 1.8 mill to 2.2 mill. Not that this really matters, because we're talking about entry-level wages. The longer you stay, the more qualified you become, the more you network, the better and more secure your position will become. If you expect a secure job with yearly salary increases from your employer, then your employer can expect you to be a professional who keeps abreast of new developments in our field and does more than provide English language entertainment.

Let's face it, a lot of individuals on Dave's are frustrated because they want the security of a stable job with increasing benefits, but are not willing to do much more for it than provide English language entertainment. They vent their frustration by coming online, putting down everything Korean, whining about other foreigners whom they view as having sold out, and jump on everything that exonerates them from taking responsibility.

If you're an active participant in your environment, then you will develop the opportunity to shape it. If you prefer watching from the sidelines, don't complain that you didn't get the opportunity to score a goal.
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English Matt



Joined: 12 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dharma_Blue wrote:
English Matt wrote:

I don't want people who are not happy here to be scared into re-signing again and again and giving up on any dreams they once had, by being scared into believing that this is the best they can hope to achieve. People talk about people back home 'settling', well that is too often what I have observed in the long-termers I have met here - they have settled for a life in Korea, a life that to many people is simply dreary in comparison to the multitude of others they could lead.


To each his own I guess. I would, in many ways, consider the 'typical' life back home to be just as dreary as Korea.

What makes our own countries back home so special anyway? Better food choices? "Diversity" (ie a more subtle form of racism underlying rampant political correctness)? Fat women who aren't afraid to wear tight clothes? Live music?

you can have it all Rolling Eyes


Yes because your description above covers the entirety of the world outside of Korea.....seriously mate, travel a bit and see some more of the world before you make sweeping statements like the above. You are embarassing yourself.

Also, there is no such thing as a 'typical' life 'back home'. We all come from somewhere different, we don't have to go back to our home city or even country....there are millions of possible lives you can lead, in a million different places.

You've spent one year in Korea and are not even living here at this moment.....spend a few more years here before judging whether your's was a smart decision to come back or not.
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morrisonhotel



Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Location: Gyeonggi-do

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

English Matt wrote:


Yes, what a great source you provided there - you clearly know of what you speak. I'd prefer to go with my sources who are friends and relatives who work for such organisations, who tell me that they love their work and enjoy getting up in the morning because of this. I'll also look back on my own experience working in the Homelessness sector and can tell you that, at the organisation I worked for, the minimum pay was £18500 a year for Admin Assistants and the max was £50000 a year for the CEO. These jobs are difficult to come by as you need relevant skills, experience and training (they don't have the money to spare to train you up).....doesn't mean they are impossible to get however. Nor is the pay terrible.


Matt, I'd be interested to hear how you get on with job searches in the NGO/non-profit sector. My current plan is to teach in Korea for a couple of years, try to find a uni gig in Europe for a year, and then return to work in the UK in a similar sector as you're aiming for.

I went to a careers event specifically for working for a NGO at the local university. My degree isn't particularly relevant, I have a bit of experience (internships/voluntary), and I sent my CV to one of the people giving a talk on the subject. She said that my CV as it stands plus what I was intending to do over the next few years would make me a strong candidate and I'd almost certainly get an interview from applying. Whilst an interview isn't a guarantee, it's a foot in the door.

It did become apparent at the careers event, however, how nepotistic the whole NGO/non-public sector sector is.
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