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openning
Joined: 03 Jul 2012
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 Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:14 am Post subject: Quitting... how does that work? |
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So, I've only been in Korea for a week -- I was here for over a year about 5 years ago. I'm very glad to be back, but I just discovered something about my job that has me thinking that maybe I want a different job. I did all my pre-hiring research, asked one of the foreign staff a whole ream of questions, but there was one question I didn't even think to ask -- vacation time.
The job lists 10 days vacation time, so I assumed that that would mean one week in winter, one week in summer... I figured that was standard, but yesterday over lunch one of the teachers mentioned that we get one day off for Christmas. I asked when the winter vacation was and they just stared at me. I said "don't we get 10 days vacation?", and they said that we do, it's just broken up, one day at a time. In fact, they said we would get "a bunch of random Wednesdays off".
This kind of freaks me out because you can't do anything with one day off here and there. Especially "random Wednesdays"... that doesn't even give you a long weekend. I had already been planning to use one of my holidays to go and visit some of my family, so this kind of, well... ruins any plans I had. I kind of feel like this might not be a problem for someone younger, but I've been a working adult for almost 20 years now and this just doesn't feel like something I can deal with.
So, I'm thinking of moving on, but well, I don't know how that works. How do you quit, especially when you just arrived? I don't want to screw the job over, they haven't actually lied to me. I would want to give them notice so they had time to hire someone -- I know that they will be mad, but I would want to do this in the best way possible. Would I need to reimburse them for the flight? For the relocation bonus? How does the visa work? My visa is obviously attached to my job and well... what happens if I leave my job? And how would I apply for another job when I don't have my documents? I brought my degree with me, but I obviously don't have my criminal record check anymore.
Any advice would be really appreciated.
Thanks! |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| I've been a working adult for almost 20 years now |
The post represents someone right out of college though. There isn't much to this. You explain the situation to the school and hope there is another school that will give you what you want.
Realistically speaking, you have 3.5 months before this "Christmas" thing becomes an issue. This is plenty of time for them to find a replacement and for you to see how things work in Korea to reconsider your options.
Public schools are a better fit for you if you want a bunch of days off. You could apply in a month or so for the March new school year. Put in 6 months, deal with no vacation time, and then you can have a job from March 2013 to 2014 which will include a summer and winter vacation.
If you must leave now, then yea they will want all the money incurred getting you the job and over to Korea. Be prepared. |
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openning
Joined: 03 Jul 2012
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
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| I've been a working adult for almost 20 years now |
The post represents someone right out of college though. |
Oh, I know hot to quit a job, that is not the issue, I'm not an idiot... I just don't know what the situation is in Korea... if I quit, am I screwed? Do I have to leave the country? Maybe this is naive, but the last time I was here, the only people I knew who quit really screwed over their schools, like lied to them or bailed without notice. And they said they did this because they were sure that if they didn't they would be screwed over somehow -- have money taken from them or be deported or whatever. In Canada, you give notice, you quit and that's the end of it, but this is a different country, and I am an immigrant here on a work visa. If I leave my job, the situation becomes complicated. That is my question. How complicated does it get? How do I work this so it is easiest for both me and my employer?
I should also add that I specifically timed my employment so that I could work from September to September (or rather, to the end of August), so sticking it out for 3 months and then taking another job also screws with those plans. If I leave, I would want to leave very soon.
This is all very frustrating, I feel stupid for not having asked the question, but honestly I've never heard of any place doing this before. And like I said, I worked here for over a year before, and had friends who worked at all different schools and no one ever had vacation days divided like this! It's bizarre. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| if I quit, am I screwed? |
No more or less than if you quit a job on Mars.
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| Do I have to leave the country? |
There are no "have to" scenarios. Empower yourself. You have choices, and leaving is one choice. People often do this to leave Korea or get new documents and come back on a new visa.
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| the only people I knew who quit really screwed over their schools, like lied to them or bailed without notice |
They aren't the "only" people. I signed 5 one year contracts, lived and worked in Korea for 2.5 years, and I left every school under "good terms" (meaning we mutually agreed to end things, I pulled no real runners as you have referenced).
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| How do I work this so it is easiest for both me and my employer? |
You make agreements with the employer. Really, it's that simple. Having us coach you really isn't the easiest way. Each employer is different.
In your case, they will want airfare probably and any other expenses. Negotiate, do what they want. Scratch their back, they will scratch yours. Mutually agree to something.
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| I should also add that I specifically timed my employment so that I could work from September to September (or rather, to the end of August), so sticking it out for 3 months and then taking another job also screws with those plans. If I leave, I would want to leave very soon. |
You are trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Either you get the public school job and have a longer break (March to March), or you go anywhere at anytime with vacation days sprinkled as to not interfere with the business.
It's not completely impossible to find a school now to transfer to that will fit your demands, but it will take a lot of rejecting other offers until you get one. It will also have to be timed so that it fits when the school gets a new teacher to replace you. Not impossible, but not easy.
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| no one ever had vacation days divided like this! It's bizarre. |
It's quite normal actually. A hagwon is a business. During the holidays, they are like a shopping mall and can have more business by teaching students because they are not in school. Your contract should have evidence of this with references to overtime pay during the holidays. Did you read it before signing?
If you had taken a public school job, then this wouldn't have been the case. What is bizarre is that you claim 20 years of working but you didn't do a modicum of research to learn about holidays. A simple, "When is my Christmas holiday?" to your current employer during the interview would have revealed the reality you are aware of now.
Asia is not a christmasy region. Korea is the most Christmas influenced country I have been in because of the number of Christians. China and Japan just use Christmas as a way to sell stuff, but they don't celebrate to the extent we do in the West. |
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openning
Joined: 03 Jul 2012
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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deleted
Last edited by openning on Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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openning
Joined: 03 Jul 2012
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
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| the only people I knew who quit really screwed over their schools, like lied to them or bailed without notice |
They aren't the "only" people. I signed 5 one year contracts, lived and worked in Korea for 2.5 years, and I left every school under "good terms" (meaning we mutually agreed to end things, I pulled no real runners as you have referenced).
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I meant, that the only people _I_ knew who quit, I knew a few people who did, and they all did it in the most shady way possible, and they all insisted that that was the only way to do it so you didn't get screwed over.
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| What is bizarre is that you claim 20 years of working but you didn't do a modicum of research to learn about holidays. A simple, "When is my Christmas holiday?" to your current employer during the interview would have revealed the reality you are aware of now. |
As I mentioned, I worked here for over a year before and I never heard of anyone doing vacation like this. I worked at a hagwan, as did all of my friends, and we all got one week off in the winter (they did not all coincide with Christmas, but all were given a week during the winter) and one week in the summer. I am fully aware that hagwans work during the school holidays, I am completely okay with only 10 days vacation instead of the school holidays, but sprinkling them around one day at a time is something I have never heard of before. Even most jobs I saw listed this time specified "one week in the winter, one week in the summer". It seemed standard, so I assumed (obviously wrongly) that "10 days vacation" was just a more efficient way of saying that.
I am not asking for a job with lots of vacation time, just one with vacation time that is actually usable. What can you do with one day off in the middle of the week? Basically just sleep in and that's it. It's useless. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| sprinkling them around one day at a time is something I have never heard of before |
If you have 5 days to work with, then 2 of those days could be Saturday and Sunday, giving you actually 7 more.
What you do is leave Friday afternoon, ask for an early schedule that day. Then, go to wherever you want to go. Stay the night, enjoy Saturday, Sunday, and Monday without any worries free from sin. Call in on Tuesday morning and say you missed your flight. Return on Wednesday or Thursday 
If they want they can fire you, or they can just dock your pay or apply the other vacation days. I think it would be much cheaper for them to just scold you and keep you. |
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openning
Joined: 03 Jul 2012
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
| Quote: |
| sprinkling them around one day at a time is something I have never heard of before |
If you have 5 days to work with, then 2 of those days could be Saturday and Sunday, giving you actually 7 more.
What you do is leave Friday afternoon, ask for an early schedule that day. Then, go to wherever you want to go. Stay the night, enjoy Saturday, Sunday, and Monday without any worries free from sin. Call in on Tuesday morning and say you missed your flight. Return on Wednesday or Thursday
If they want they can fire you, or they can just dock your pay or apply the other vacation days. I think it would be much cheaper for them to just scold you and keep you. |
Heh, I'm not such a good liar, don't know that I could pull that off! 
I also have a set schedule, I can't actually ask for an early day (my early days are always going to be Tuesday and Thursday).
Seriously, this is the most stupid way I've ever heard of doing holidays... random Wednesdays? who does that? I'm going to ask more questions of the other foreign teachers today, but the way they worded it yesterday, it sounds like they just let you know a little ahead of time that you will have a day off the following week. It seems designed to make sure you can't actually do anything with your holidays. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| the other foreign teachers |
If you have other foreign teachers then that should help. See what everyone agrees to. If there are at least 2 that agree with you, then you could set it up so each person would cover 2 days when the other teachers aren't working. Of course you'll need to agree on different times.
Hopefully they don't need Christmas off. |
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openning
Joined: 03 Jul 2012
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
| Quote: |
| the other foreign teachers |
If you have other foreign teachers then that should help. See what everyone agrees to. If there are at least 2 that agree with you, then you could set it up so each person would cover 2 days when the other teachers aren't working. Of course you'll need to agree on different times.
Hopefully they don't need Christmas off. |
Hmmm... I think maybe you have worked at different sorts of schools than I have. We can't really cover for each other, we are all teaching at the same time. I might be able to cover one class from another teacher, but there is just no way to jig the schedule so that the foreign teachers can cover each other's abscences.
From what I understand (from the questions I asked before I was hired... I _did_ do research, I started looking for work in May and didn't pick a job until July and I emailed a huge list of questions to one of the foreign teachers at every school I was offered a job at), when one teacher is sick, the foreign teachers cover as many classes as they can, but they inevitably can't cover all of them, so the Korean teachers have to step in. Doesn't exactly make anyone happy.
And the vacation days are not something we can pick, they are assigned to us, the school closes down for a day in the middle of the week and that is one vacation day gone. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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I understand the situation. You don't need to keep rewording it. You have one day allotted for vacation time.
I am saying if the other teachers agree, you might be able to change the schedule to the way you want.
Your contract should have stated something to indicate you wouldn't have blocks of vacation time. Overtime during the holidays is usually the indicator you won't be able to go anywhere.
If the school is closed one day a week, then it seems like you need to find work on the other days. There are adult classes that can be taught in the morning and at night. There are kindergarten classes that can be taught in the morning and early afternoon. Elementary school children can be taught in the afternoon, and middle school/high school students can be taught from the afternoon through the evening.
This is common sense stuff and has nothing to do with the schools or number of schools I have taught at. Every school I have worked at operates like this. One farmed teachers out to public schools, but the point is we all taught at various times.
You say you did research, but the one thing you need is a sample schedule. You apparently didn't ask them for a copy of their current schedule.
I would have been wary about the job after seeing a copy. The school is only open for 5 or so hours a day? That is not good for business.
Surely, you got better offers. They must charge twice the cost for classes in order to afford paying for the business. I would question the owner on why they want to operate this way, and it is something you should have asked upfront during the interview. Not knowing the schedule is not knowing about the job. Plain and simple. |
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Dodge7
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
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| I've been a working adult for almost 20 years now |
The post represents someone right out of college though. There isn't much to this. You explain the situation to the school and hope there is another school that will give you what you want.
Realistically speaking, you have 3.5 months before this "Christmas" thing becomes an issue. This is plenty of time for them to find a replacement and for you to see how things work in Korea to reconsider your options.
Public schools are a better fit for you if you want a bunch of days off. You could apply in a month or so for the March new school year. Put in 6 months, deal with no vacation time, and then you can have a job from March 2013 to 2014 which will include a summer and winter vacation.
If you must leave now, then yea they will want all the money incurred getting you the job and over to Korea. Be prepared. |
LOL that's exactly what I was thinking. |
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cronolegs
Joined: 01 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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I just quit after 6 months. (this is my very last day at work)
I gave them the 45 days notice.
On Tuesday (typhoon day) I went to immigration and transferred to a D10 visa. Cost me 60,000 won and was very easy to do.
This gives me 6 months to find a new job. I am able to travel back to my home country in this time.
I had to give the flight money back to the school.
Job done - no hard feelings from me or the school.
Be honest and sensible. Then get a D10 visa and start looking, gives you flexibility and saves you re-doing paperwork. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Be honest and sensible. Then get a D10 visa and start looking, gives you flexibility and saves you re-doing paperwork. |
I am not trying to be pessimistic here, just cautious.
The teacher hasn't finished 6 months, so they haven't paid back what was invested in them to go to Korea. In addition, the school signed a 1 year lease for the apartment, gave 5-10,000,000 in key money probably.
They are going to want more than just the airfare. If the teacher has the money, great, but it's not a typical scenario. Usually teachers need to work it off.
This means working a month or so (and what about the school wanting a replacement?). The D-10 might not be as easy to get early on. Try it of course, but don't be surprised if you are turned down. I have been pleasantly surprised by some of the stories on here, and hopefully the teacher can be just as lucky.
After coming to an agreement with the school and getting the D-10, there is a third hurdle to get over. That is finding a school which will hire you and let you have vacation time with only 1 or 2 months of work with them. They are more likely to give vacation time after 6 months. You also have the issue I mentioned before of finding a school that doesn't need you during the holidays when students have nothing else to do but video games and hagwon
Personally, I would stay at the school until holidays, switchover to the D-10, and then come back under a new contract. If this teacher can't work past September 2013, then simply give notice in August. Job done.
This way, you will still get some holidays (those Wednesdays off), and then when you come back you work about 4-6 months before you take your summer vacation days. You might even be able to try to get more than 5 days. This would give you more than 10 if you count the Wednesdays the teacher is getting off now. (I specialize in laziness, if you haven't noticed)
I have a history of leaving jobs myself, but to do it because of only vacation days is too hasty of a decision early on in a contract period. I feel you need some other reasons.
We may not have the full story also because the original poster did state that they would want to leave immediately, but Christmas is not till 3.5 months from now. Wouldn't you rather collect on about 7 million first? I would. Something else is brewing I suspect. |
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byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| YTMND wrote: |
I have a history of leaving jobs myself, but to do it because of only vacation days is too hasty of a decision early on in a contract period. I feel you need some other reasons. |
This ^. If anyone is an expert at these things, you've got your man, OP. Dude has done it over and over again in 3 east Asian countries. |
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