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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| asylum seeker wrote: |
This is a good point but I think it's not just the women who have the problem. Think of it from the male point of view. Almost all the 28 000 US soldiers here are young males plus it seems that there are still more male NETS than females (though this might be changing). Now this may not be a huge number when looking at the whole Korean population but when focusing on certain areas of Seoul or other big cities, it's enough to create a significant bit of extra competition for Korean guys.
Imagine if in your home country there was a sizable foreign military presence whose members would turn up at your clubs drunk and aggressive and going after all the local woman. Now even an enlightened, non-prejudiced guy might not be able to repress a slight sense of enjoyment or relief when some clubs started banning these guys from entering. Now this is not to say it's right or wrong but it is way to understand how such policies could develop. It doesn't help that South Korea was already suffering a gender imbalance as well. |
I think the number of SE Asian/Russian girls balances out the GI/NET equation.
I also think the unmarried, attractive, male, GIs and other foreigners here are not really much of a blip on the radar when it comes to competition. Statistically speaking we're talking about a drop in the bucket.
Again, I think it all comes back to anju. |
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daeguowl
Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:57 am Post subject: |
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I've been to plenty of booking clubs without getting turned away but I was always the only foreigner in our group and accompanied by at least two Koreans. A lot of the ladies that go to these clubs are not expecting to meet foreigners and some of them handle it better than others. But I think, if they were confronted by a room full of foreigners then they'd probably not stay long.
When the girls come in, they have a certain expectation about what will happen, a certain 분위기 and I think three foreign guys would struggle to create that.
I can certainly see why certain places would try to ban foreigners because they assume that they're not going to know the system. And frankly, I think a lot of foreigners would not be cool with the system. It just sucks for those of us that could fit in.
On another note, I was rejected from a massage parlour with a curt "No foreigners" and I wasn't even trying to get in... |
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McGenghis
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
Location: Gangneung
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:46 am Post subject: |
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Steelrails: please explain how ordering anju in hof X means you might get access to club Y.
Also, there is no �we ate already we do not want your poopy anju� option at these places. Either you order or you do not get a seat. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| McGenghis wrote: |
Steelrails: please explain how ordering anju in hof X means you might get access to club Y.
Also, there is no �we ate already we do not want your poopy anju� option at these places. Either you order or you do not get a seat. |
Word gets around. Also not ordering anju in bar x means the next set of foreigners that go to bar x may get bad service or the "we're full" run around. Get enough that do that and then you may get the sign.
Back in the states foreigners (especially Koreans!) have a reputation for not tipping and usually get worse service.
Not knowing when to pay the extra charges may not be the deciding factor but its a factor. |
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grant_steves
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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I love these idiots who think that they aren't getting into the NIGHT-uh because they are "competition" for the Korean men. The women who go to the NIGHT-uh are not going to generally be interested in foreign men and having 4-5 waygooks in a club of hundreds of people will hardly make any difference. Get off your high horses with this attitude that clearly all the women would prefer a whitey. This is bollocks and you're full of yourself.
I think that the reason that foreigners are not let in (I've gone to several NIGHT-uhs and never been denied entry....always going with a group of foreigners without a single Korean) at some NIGHT-uhs boils down to 3 points, which have all been mentioned already:
1. They have had trouble with foreigners before (or perceive that they will from watching too many American movies)
2. They assume that foreigners won't know how the system works and don't want to bother to try and explain when they don't speak a word of English
3. $$$.....most foreigners at the NIGHT-uh order the minimum set for 4 people, and then maybe one more round of beers later.....if the club is full they could be making a LOT more money off that table, but even if it isn't, the risk-reward for them is not worth it....if a table of waygooks upsets 3 tables of 40-year old Kims drinking whiskey at $150/bottle the equation is easy to solve. |
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creeper1
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:50 pm Post subject: Agree |
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I completely agree that waygooks are tight asses. In the heabangcheon fest they were smuggling in bottles of CASS from the GS25s into the bars because they didn't want to pay any extra for a beer.  How classy.
It's probably because the native speakers here are so in debt. |
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grant_steves
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: Agree |
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| creeper1 wrote: |
I completely agree that waygooks are tight asses. In the heabangcheon fest they were smuggling in bottles of CASS from the GS25s into the bars because they didn't want to pay any extra for a beer. How classy.
It's probably because the native speakers here are so in debt. |
I don't think that it's just the debt....I think a big part of it is that we get here and our flight is free, rent is free, and life is pretty cheap all around....so we start to think that everything should be free or cheap, and then when something comes up that isn't, we freak out.
I do think that the percentage of foreigners who sneak alcohol into bars here is still going to be quite low, though....if 5% are doing it, that still means that 95% are not.
The anju thing isn't all about money either....if you're just drinking beer and not soju, then eating a big plate of food while you drink will keep you from getting drunk....if you're drinking 2 bottles of soju each then it makes sense to put something in your stomach to temper the liquor, but with beer this is counter-intuitive (if your goal is to become intoxicated). I don't feel guilty about not ordering anju at all....sometimes I order it, but only if I want to eat it, not out of a feeling of guilt or necessity, I am not going to order food I don't want just to have it sit there or just to stuff it in my face when I am not hungry....I have rarely been in a HOF where every single table was full, so they're still making money off of me without the anju. They still price beer above cost....and if they don't, then that's poor business sense. The bars in our neighborhood who don't give us grief about anju get a LOT of business from the foreigners, which all adds up since we return to the same bars again and again, especially considering the fact that 30% of the time we do order something to eat, but I will never return to a bar that forced me to buy food when I just ate dinner an hour earlier. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:51 pm Post subject: Re: Agree |
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| creeper1 wrote: |
I completely agree that waygooks are tight asses. In the heabangcheon fest they were smuggling in bottles of CASS from the GS25s into the bars because they didn't want to pay any extra for a beer. How classy.
It's probably because the native speakers here are so in debt. |
When are people going to learn that if you have to do those kind of things, you can't afford to go to bars.
Koreans have many faults, but one thing I really enjoy is that, generally, if they do choose to go out each is ready to pay for everyone for the whole night should anything arise and often each person will take a turn trying to pay.
When you go out for pleasure you should go out for pleasure- that means having something to munch on, good drinks, not having to calculate to a certain percentage, round two after, be ready to buy a bottle if the night gets rocking, etc. etc. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| asylum seeker wrote: |
This is a good point but I think it's not just the women who have the problem. Think of it from the male point of view. Almost all the 28 000 US soldiers here are young males plus it seems that there are still more male NETS than females (though this might be changing). Now this may not be a huge number when looking at the whole Korean population but when focusing on certain areas of Seoul or other big cities, it's enough to create a significant bit of extra competition for Korean guys.
Imagine if in your home country there was a sizable foreign military presence whose members would turn up at your clubs drunk and aggressive and going after all the local woman. Now even an enlightened, non-prejudiced guy might not be able to repress a slight sense of enjoyment or relief when some clubs started banning these guys from entering. Now this is not to say it's right or wrong but it is way to understand how such policies could develop. It doesn't help that South Korea was already suffering a gender imbalance as well. |
I think the number of SE Asian/Russian girls balances out the GI/NET equation.
I also think the unmarried, attractive, male, GIs and other foreigners here are not really much of a blip on the radar when it comes to competition. Statistically speaking we're talking about a drop in the bucket.
Again, I think it all comes back to anju. |
For once, you're right on the money. It's the anju.
Westerners haven't been educated/suckered into believing that they have to buy anju to qualify to buy a drink. Nor that you MUST eat when you drink. |
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nfld_chingu
Joined: 29 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:11 am Post subject: |
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I've only ever been to one Korean-style nightclub, but I went there a few times ... I was always with Korean friends though, and one of my Korean friends knew some of the bouncers, so I wasn't going to get turned away, but was always the only foreigner there. We also got a discount because of my friend's connection.
I don't really enjoy the Korean nightclub though. It's not what I'm used to. It's ok if you just want to sit and drink with friends, but it was not great for me if I was trying to meet guys. I found that most of the Korean guys going there are not looking to meet foreign girls (the ones who want to meet foreign girls are usually going to western/foreigner clubs). I was brought to some tables to meet guys but I didn't enjoy it and never met anybody I was interested in. I would rather decide for myself who I want to meet/talk to, rather than being escorted to a random table. |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:43 am Post subject: |
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When are people going to learn that if you have to do those kind of things, you can't afford to go to bars.
Koreans have many faults, but one thing I really enjoy is that, generally, if they do choose to go out each is ready to pay for everyone for the whole night should anything arise and often each person will take a turn trying to pay.
When you go out for pleasure you should go out for pleasure- that means having something to munch on, good drinks, not having to calculate to a certain percentage, round two after, be ready to buy a bottle if the night gets rocking, etc. etc. |
+1
THis may sound harsh but in my experience ESL teachers have in general been the stingiest people I have ever met. Not all but most.
This isn't limited to ESL teachers in Korea either. The same can be said for most of the ones I met in China and Canada. People say it is because the salary is low. Well then don't go out to bars if you have to stress about nickel and diming it the whole time only to duck out on the bill. With my friends back home it was always a reciprocal process. No one kept count but everyone just knew when it was their turn. When someone said "I got it" nothing more was said. It was an honour based system. WIth the vast majority of ESL teachers I've met and even befriended this was sadly never the case. One of the things I can't stand is when the bill comes and everyone starts bickering about who owes what down to the last french fry. Just pay the god damn thing. |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| grant_steves wrote: |
I love these idiots who think that they aren't getting into the NIGHT-uh because they are "competition" for the Korean men. The women who go to the NIGHT-uh are not going to generally be interested in foreign men and having 4-5 waygooks in a club of hundreds of people will hardly make any difference. Get off your high horses with this attitude that clearly all the women would prefer a whitey. This is bollocks and you're full of yourself.
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Nobody said that. Learn to read before making stupid comments. |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| asylum seeker wrote: |
This is a good point but I think it's not just the women who have the problem. Think of it from the male point of view. Almost all the 28 000 US soldiers here are young males plus it seems that there are still more male NETS than females (though this might be changing). Now this may not be a huge number when looking at the whole Korean population but when focusing on certain areas of Seoul or other big cities, it's enough to create a significant bit of extra competition for Korean guys.
Imagine if in your home country there was a sizable foreign military presence whose members would turn up at your clubs drunk and aggressive and going after all the local woman. Now even an enlightened, non-prejudiced guy might not be able to repress a slight sense of enjoyment or relief when some clubs started banning these guys from entering. Now this is not to say it's right or wrong but it is way to understand how such policies could develop. It doesn't help that South Korea was already suffering a gender imbalance as well. |
I think the number of SE Asian/Russian girls balances out the GI/NET equation.
I also think the unmarried, attractive, male, GIs and other foreigners here are not really much of a blip on the radar when it comes to competition. Statistically speaking we're talking about a drop in the bucket.
Again, I think it all comes back to anju. |
Plenty of people have had experiences with Korean guys deliberately blocking them when they try to talk to/ dance with Korean girls so, it seems for at least some Korean guys, foreign guys are seen as competition.
Personally I have no problem with ordering anju. This is one of the reasons I'll grant you, but I don't believe it's the only reason. I think you have to be somewhat naive if you believe that the policy of turning people away is never based on prejudice. |
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grant_steves
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| asylum seeker wrote: |
| Plenty of people have had experiences with Korean guys deliberately blocking them when they try to talk to/ dance with Korean girls so, it seems for at least some Korean guys, foreign guys are seen as competition. |
I am sure that there are some Korean men who do this because they see the foreigners as competition, and some that do it out of prejudice. I just don't believe that this is the reason that the night club managers implement a no-foreigner policy. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| grant_steves wrote: |
| asylum seeker wrote: |
| Plenty of people have had experiences with Korean guys deliberately blocking them when they try to talk to/ dance with Korean girls so, it seems for at least some Korean guys, foreign guys are seen as competition. |
I am sure that there are some Korean men who do this because they see the foreigners as competition, and some that do it out of prejudice. I just don't believe that this is the reason that the night club managers implement a no-foreigner policy. |
I think any guy trying to move in on someone's girl is going to get blocked. Korean or otherwise.
Not to mention that believe it or not, women girls don't always go to clubs looking to hook up. Lot's of girls just go their to dance and be with their friends. Often they bring a guy friend or two so that if some obnoxious drunk starts to rub against them they can be told to hit the road. That and half the time the girl is the one telling the guy to do the blocking even if they are there to meet people. This is how it goes anywhere. |
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