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Update on the F2-S visa Point System
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crossmr



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Korean proficiency: 20 points (graduated from Yonsei University KLI)

unless that's equivalent to Topik 5/6 it's not 20 points
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rooster_2006



Joined: 14 Oct 2007

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crossmr wrote:
Quote:
Korean proficiency: 20 points (graduated from Yonsei University KLI)

unless that's equivalent to Topik 5/6 it's not 20 points
Ah, but it IS equivalent to TOPIK 5/6!

I did 20 weeks of Korean classes stateside, then came to Korea and did eight terms of intensive study spread over three years at Yonsei University KLI. During that time I spent more than a year living with Koreans in an apartment in Daehangno, speaking Korean basically the entire time. I took and passed Yonsei's Advanced Course not once, but twice. During all this, I took the 세계한국말인증시험 (KLPT) and scored Level 5. TOPIK (한국어능력시험) is just another test. I could easily get a Level 5, no problem, maybe even a Level 6. How do I know this? Because we took a past 고급 TOPIK exam at Yonsei after finishing Level 6 and I passed it. Laughing

And if, heaven forbid, my language only came up at a Level 4 (like, for example, if I were in a bad car accident and lost a hemisphere of my brain), I would be at a 70 instead of a 75. I could still bridge that 10-point gap quite easily with the 사회 통합 프로그램 mentioned on the rubric...

The real question here is whether these rubric revisions are real, or whether they lack validity.
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Hugo85



Joined: 27 Aug 2010

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Update on the F2-S visa Point System Reply with quote

Konglishman wrote:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_mN-jIkddFMw/TJeYpaY8SXI/AAAAAAAACco/Py--NtwsQNE/s1600/PointSystem1.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_mN-jIkddFMw/TJeYrg_otiI/AAAAAAAACcw/ep-2pl4-Fcw/s1600/PointSystem2.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mN-jIkddFMw/TJeYtUGrm0I/AAAAAAAACc4/CtlR3qMWruY/s1600/PointSystem3.jpg

http://chersurvivingkorea.blogspot.com/2010/09/info-107-f2-visa-for-professionals.html


Seems light on grad studies and work experience and heavy on korean proficiency and studies in korea. The Hong Kong points system makes a lot more sense.
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Konglishman



Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Update on the F2-S visa Point System Reply with quote

Hugo85 wrote:
Konglishman wrote:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_mN-jIkddFMw/TJeYpaY8SXI/AAAAAAAACco/Py--NtwsQNE/s1600/PointSystem1.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_mN-jIkddFMw/TJeYrg_otiI/AAAAAAAACcw/ep-2pl4-Fcw/s1600/PointSystem2.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mN-jIkddFMw/TJeYtUGrm0I/AAAAAAAACc4/CtlR3qMWruY/s1600/PointSystem3.jpg

http://chersurvivingkorea.blogspot.com/2010/09/info-107-f2-visa-for-professionals.html


Seems light on grad studies and work experience and heavy on korean proficiency and studies in korea. The Hong Kong points system makes a lot more sense.


Yes, but Hong Kong is essentially a bilingual city state in which most of the Chinese living there, can speak English very well. So, not knowing Chinese is not particularly problematic in terms of cultural integration there.

However, in Korea, there simply has never been that kind of bilingual tradition. Of course, it is true that Korea wants to master English in order to be able to better take advantage of global opportunities, we are simply are not yet at that point. And clearly, knowing Korean is extremely important for cultural integration here. So, I do think that this system makes sense for Korea.
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Hugo85



Joined: 27 Aug 2010

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Update on the F2-S visa Point System Reply with quote

Konglishman wrote:
Hugo85 wrote:
Konglishman wrote:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_mN-jIkddFMw/TJeYpaY8SXI/AAAAAAAACco/Py--NtwsQNE/s1600/PointSystem1.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_mN-jIkddFMw/TJeYrg_otiI/AAAAAAAACcw/ep-2pl4-Fcw/s1600/PointSystem2.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mN-jIkddFMw/TJeYtUGrm0I/AAAAAAAACc4/CtlR3qMWruY/s1600/PointSystem3.jpg

http://chersurvivingkorea.blogspot.com/2010/09/info-107-f2-visa-for-professionals.html


Seems light on grad studies and work experience and heavy on korean proficiency and studies in korea. The Hong Kong points system makes a lot more sense.


Yes, but Hong Kong is essentially a bilingual city state in which most of the Chinese living there, can speak English very well. So, not knowing Chinese is not particularly problematic in terms of cultural integration there.

However, in Korea, there simply has never been that kind of bilingual tradition. Of course, it is true that Korea wants to master English in order to be able to better take advantage of global opportunities, we are simply are not yet at that point. And clearly, knowing Korean is extremely important for cultural integration here. So, I do think that this system makes sense for Korea.


I agree that knowing Korean to work as a professional in Korea is very important. But there are still very little points awarded to professional work experience or having higher education. Phd + 1.99 years of professional experience is as important as having in a social integration course. Volunteer work being as important as professional experience is lol-worthy.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: China

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Update on the F2-S visa Point System Reply with quote

rooster_2006 wrote:
Konglishman wrote:
I was telling a foreign friend of mine (who is fluent in Korean) about this new type of F2 visa in which it is possible to qualify for the F2 through a point system. After googling it (in order to show him the point system), I discovered that there has been an update (as of last September) to the point system. Now, it is actually a lot easier (although still difficult) to qualify for the F2-S visa.

In my case, due to my age, education, income, previous experience, etc., it seems that I currently have 62 or 64 points (depending on what immigration considers to be professional working experience outside of Korea). And if I did the social integration program, that would bring me up to 72 or 74 points which is only 8 or 6 points shy of the required minimum of 80 points. So, I suppose that I will have to start seriously studying Korean to get beyond my current survival level up to the basic commication level. Or I could do some more than 2 years of volunteer work and my income will likely be higher by then...

So, in fact, for people with a master's degree (such as myself), it may even be possible to qualify without knowing any Korean (albeit with some difficulty).

For English teachers (such as Tomato) who are fairly strong in their Korean ability, the F2-S visa might already be attainable. To give an example, someone with a bachelor's degree and with an intermediate level of Korean ability at an average job, would easily qualify as their point total would likely add up in the following way.

25 (between ages of 30 to 34) + 26 (bachelor's degree) + 15 (Korean ability rated as communication possible on familiar topics) + 5 (income < 35 million Won) + 10 (Social Integration Program; might as well do it)
= a grand total of 81


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_mN-jIkddFMw/TJeYpaY8SXI/AAAAAAAACco/Py--NtwsQNE/s1600/PointSystem1.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_mN-jIkddFMw/TJeYrg_otiI/AAAAAAAACcw/ep-2pl4-Fcw/s1600/PointSystem2.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mN-jIkddFMw/TJeYtUGrm0I/AAAAAAAACc4/CtlR3qMWruY/s1600/PointSystem3.jpg

http://chersurvivingkorea.blogspot.com/2010/09/info-107-f2-visa-for-professionals.html
WOW, THIS IS INCREDIBLE!!!

In my case:
Age: 23 points (age 24)
Academic career: 26 points (bachelor's degree complete)
Korean proficiency: 20 points (graduated from Yonsei University KLI)
Income: 5 points (I'm a chronic under-earner)
Study in Korea: 1 point (language training at YSKLI)
= 75 points

HOLY CRAP!!! I'M ONLY FIVE POINTS AWAY!!!

Although honestly, I refuse to believe it's this easy... I lived in Korea for five years and it was NEVER that easy...


So if you take the Social Integration Program you will have a 5 point leeway. In your shoes I'd be looking for the nearest SIP myself.
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rooster_2006



Joined: 14 Oct 2007

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Update on the F2-S visa Point System Reply with quote

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
So if you take the Social Integration Program you will have a 5 point leeway. In your shoes I'd be looking for the nearest SIP myself.
Yep, that's right! Very Happy
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rooster_2006



Joined: 14 Oct 2007

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before the September revisions, I said "good job, Korea, this is a step in the right direction" in regard to the original F-2-7 point rubric.

However, the September revisions make it so easy to get an F-2-7, I don't see how there can't be some kind of backlash. Don't get me wrong, I think the September revisions are awesome. However, even if they are giving out these F-2-7s right now, I wouldn't count on it staying this easy for long...

Xenophobic Koreans aren't going to be happy when thousands of professionals from poorer Asian countries come flooding in. They aren't going to be happy once white people start "stealing tutoring jobs" from beloved Korean-American gyopos, either...

I would bet anything that these revisions will be reversed and we'll be back to the original March 2010 F-2-7 rubric, if not something even worse...

It's probably good that you're applying now, IlIlNine. Get that F-2-7 and then apply for the F-5 as soon as you are eligible (in a little over three years). Because although I pray this visa stays available, all the historical precedents say that it won't...

The September '10 revisions are just too liberal and open for the Hermit Kingdom... With a visa this convenient, Korea runs the risk of becoming, *GASP,* a multicultural society...

I'm not trying to be a buzz kill, I just can't picture this visa lasting long when hordes of well-educated Indians, Filipinos, and Chinese start flying in with their suspenders hiked up, eager and willing to work professional jobs full-time for 900,000 won a month...

And as soon as they find some pedophile that molested little boys in Thailand who has an F-2-7, bye-bye convenient, accessible F-2-7!!!
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cheolsu



Joined: 16 Jan 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indian engineers start at about 2 million (80,000 Indian rupees in the article), though housing is not provided.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/indian-techies-in-s-korea-expose-fat-salary-lie-55132?from=rightpanel
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rooster_2006



Joined: 14 Oct 2007

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheolsu wrote:
Indian engineers start at about 2 million (80,000 Indian rupees in the article), though housing is not provided.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/indian-techies-in-s-korea-expose-fat-salary-lie-55132?from=rightpanel
Your article is very interesting/comforting.

It's nice to see that not all third world professionals are hiking up their suspenders and saying to their K-employers "I'm yours, beat me."

And in response to the article, geez, 2,000,000 won a month isn't THAT bad...

However, I suspect that Anand Sharma is not a typical case, and I suspect this article of being biased. I just don't buy it that Indian engineers/programmers, who normally get like $7,000 a year, won't jump at the chance to make $20,000, or even $10,000 a year...
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cheolsu



Joined: 16 Jan 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you make 2 million here without housing, it's hard to save money to send back home, or to support your family here and send your child to a private international school. Indians that come here are looking for a good life, and it can be hard to find you don't make enough to have a nice house and support your family, the way they could live back home.

Numerous articles mention the figure of 80,000 rupees, not just one.

Even factory workers or someone working minimum wage (4,000 won per hour) can make 900,000. I don't see what sort of engineer would do that.

I can appreciate your overall point, but it's baseless to say anything until we see E2 visaholders being denied the visa on no grounds other than being English teachers.

It's not as easy as you think, and if it is, then Korea will have a number of young, university-educated workers who speak the local language at a very high level. Think of all the English teachers you know and take out the ones who can't speak Korean, don't have a master's degree, don't volunteer, didn't study here, and (most common of all) don't want to live here very long. It's not as much as you think.

Of the 20,000 or so people teaching here, I'd suspect that maybe 1,000 qualify? Or 2,000? Of those, how many will apply?
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rooster_2006



Joined: 14 Oct 2007

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheolsu wrote:
If you make 2 million here without housing, it's hard to save money to send back home, or to support your family here and send your child to a private international school. Indians that come here are looking for a good life, and it can be hard to find you don't make enough to have a nice house and support your family, the way they could live back home.

Numerous articles mention the figure of 80,000 rupees, not just one.

Even factory workers or someone working minimum wage (4,000 won per hour) can make 900,000. I don't see what sort of engineer would do that.

I can appreciate your overall point, but it's baseless to say anything until we see E2 visaholders being denied the visa on no grounds other than being English teachers.

It's not as easy as you think, and if it is, then Korea will have a number of young, university-educated workers who speak the local language at a very high level. Think of all the English teachers you know and take out the ones who can't speak Korean, don't have a master's degree, don't volunteer, didn't study here, and (most common of all) don't want to live here very long. It's not as much as you think.

Of the 20,000 or so people teaching here, I'd suspect that maybe 1,000 qualify? Or 2,000? Of those, how many will apply?
I see what you're saying. I guess I don't really know one way or the other. The incredible resolve of third worlders to make some money, any amount at all, is simply incredible, but on the other hand, you do make some good points.

Personally, I would get 78 points on that scale (and bridge the gap easily with 150 hours of 사회 통합 프로그램, +10) and I just turned 24 and only have a BS in Liberal Studies, so it's not like I'm some sort of ultra high-flying professional. However, I do speak good Korean, and according to that rubric, that's one of the most important things.

The new system REALLY rewards foreigners who studied Korean in Korea. If you speak it at an advanced level, attended your language program in Korea, and did the 사회 통합 프로그램, that's basically an instant 31 points just for learning Korean language and culture... Not bad, and I look forward to cashing in on that...

I guess that if you don't speak any appreciable amount of Korean whatsoever (most foreigners in Korea that aren't of Korean descent), then this visa is still pretty tough to get. I guess I'm glad that that'll keep the hordes, the unwashed masses, at bay, at least for now...

And I guess you're right about the small numbers of eligible people, at least among English teachers...

Joe Blow English teacher (25 - 29 years old, bachelor's degree, 2.3 million won a month, no Korean or special activities) would only get 54 points. So I guess they still aren't letting just anybody in.
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Hugo85



Joined: 27 Aug 2010

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rooster_2006 wrote:

Xenophobic Koreans aren't going to be happy when thousands of professionals from poorer Asian countries come flooding in. They aren't going to be happy once white people start "stealing tutoring jobs" from beloved Korean-American gyopos, either...


You still need to have been on a E visa for a year and the visa is hard to get without knowing korean/taking the integration course/having studied in korea. The points put almost anyone at 60, add the integration course and you are at 70. Then you need the last 10 points which is the tougher part I guess.
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crossmr



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hugo85 wrote:
rooster_2006 wrote:

Xenophobic Koreans aren't going to be happy when thousands of professionals from poorer Asian countries come flooding in. They aren't going to be happy once white people start "stealing tutoring jobs" from beloved Korean-American gyopos, either...


You still need to have been on a E visa for a year and the visa is hard to get without knowing korean/taking the integration course/having studied in korea. The points put almost anyone at 60, add the integration course and you are at 70. Then you need the last 10 points which is the tougher part I guess.


That's the point. Do you many places that will give you an open resident visa which allows you to work anywhere with basically no investment or ties or any attempt at integrating into the culture?
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nathanrutledge



Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone looked at what the Social Integration Program consists of? It's pretty heavy duty... AT LEAST six months of work.



http://www.korea.net/detail.do?guid=46094

http://www.kiip.kr/
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