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M.A. in TESOL or Applied Linguistics
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livinginkorea

Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Location: Korea, South of the border

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:26 pm Post subject:

zappadelta wrote:

naturegirl321 wrote:

sigmundsmith wrote:

About Deakin. Well I have seen what their program has to offer. And again it falls way behind what I am doing. THat is my opinion and my professor.

So you should ask just having any masters does not give you the long term understanding and knowledge in this profession. You need to think of the quality.

I'm not getting the TEFL or Applied Linguistics one. It DOES go with quality and will help me. I work in one of the top unis in kOrea. Rolling Eyes

As for long term, we're getting into property.

One of the top unis in Korea is in Suwon? Didn't know that.

Ajou or Sungkyunkwan or Kyonggi are all pretty high in Korea. Kyonggi's first campus is in Suwon and second campus is in Seoul. Sungkyunkwan's science departments are all in Suwon. Ajou was ranked 13th by Joongang Ilbo last year.

zappadelta

Joined: 31 Aug 2004

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:31 pm Post subject:

livinginkorea wrote:

zappadelta wrote:

naturegirl321 wrote:

sigmundsmith wrote:

I'm not getting the TEFL or Applied Linguistics one. It DOES go with quality and will help me. I work in one of the top unis in kOrea. Rolling Eyes

As for long term, we're getting into property.

One of the top unis in Korea is in Suwon? Didn't know that.

You mean Kyunghee right? Ah, guess not. Kyunghee's main campus is in Seoul, and 2nd campus is in Suwon/Yongin. Didn't realize that Kyonggi was a highly ranked uni.

olsanairbase

Joined: 30 Aug 2010

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:44 pm Post subject:

naturegirl321 wrote:

bobbybigfoot wrote:

I'd go for a PhD before I'd do a second MA.

G'luck to you.

I'm doing a second MA. My first was from Spain and an MA in TEFL. My second is going to be from Australia and will be in Professional Education and Training (admin)

Why am I doing a second MA? Couple reasons.
1. Getting an apostillised copy of my MA took 9 months and cost 700 euros. for one apostillised copy. ONE!
2. It's only a matter of time before degrees from non-English countries won't be accepted, despite the fact that my 16 course with thesis degree was all in English. The degree itself isn't.
3. I want to get into admin.
4. I have absolutely no desire whatsoever do to a PhD
5. Ever!

Then you probably won't go very far in administration. Most Superintendents etc. have either a EdD or a PhD if they are running a school.

If you were planning to go into Higher Education Administration then you should be going for a degree in that instead of in the primary and secondary levels as your degree indicates.

naturegirl321

Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Home sweet home

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:43 am Post subject:

zappadelta wrote:

One of the top unis in Korea is in Suwon? Didn't know that.

Yep, SKKU has a science and engineering campus in Suwon. They're number 4 or 5 depending on which ranking you look at.

olsanairbase wrote:

My second degree is in secondary and higher admin. Australian schools have a different system with TAFE, colleges, unis, training schools, etc. I could also get into training in the business sector as well, it's a master in Professional Education and Training, here's what you can do.

http://www.deakin.edu.au/current-students/courses/course.php?course=E797&version=1

Quote:

The Master of Professional Education and Training is an off-campus coursework program offered to professional educators and trainers working or intending to work in adult-oriented education and training and human resource development roles in business, government, the training sector, flexible delivery, distance education, higher education, VET in Schools, or in an area that combines these. Professional education and training today is a highly sophisticated business and becoming more so. As well as serving a very diverse clientele of learners, professional education and training also serves organisational needs for the development of increasingly complex skills and competencies.

MPET has been developed to meet the professional development and career aspirations of educators and trainers working in this context.

zappadelta

Joined: 31 Aug 2004

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:12 am Post subject:

naturegirl321 wrote:

zappadelta wrote:

One of the top unis in Korea is in Suwon? Didn't know that.

Yep, SKKU has a science and engineering campus in Suwon. They're number 4 or 5 depending on which ranking you look at.

olsanairbase wrote:

Quote:

Is it as prestigious working at a university's 2nd campus as the main campus? Like working at Yonsei-Wonju compared to working at Yonsei-Seoul.

naturegirl321

Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Home sweet home

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:00 am Post subject:

zappadelta wrote:

Is it as prestigious working at a university's 2nd campus as the main campus? Like working at Yonsei-Wonju compared to working at Yonsei-Seoul.

It's better Smile

We have the engineering students not the humanities students Wink

Pay and benefits are exactly the same as well. THough granted, we have less stress than the Seoul campus.

livinginkorea

Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Location: Korea, South of the border

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:03 am Post subject:

zappadelta wrote:

naturegirl321 wrote:

zappadelta wrote:

One of the top unis in Korea is in Suwon? Didn't know that.

Yep, SKKU has a science and engineering campus in Suwon. They're number 4 or 5 depending on which ranking you look at.

olsanairbase wrote:

Quote:

Is it as prestigious working at a university's 2nd campus as the main campus? Like working at Yonsei-Wonju compared to working at Yonsei-Seoul.

Totally depends on the major. Dankook University's second campus has dentistry, chemistry and pharmacology in Cheonan while their main campus just outside Seoul has dancing and costume making. Sometimes I recon universities do that to bring up the level of the second campus.

SKKU definitely has a good name for science and engineering. A friend of mine worked there a good while back. Pay wasn't great but students English was good he said.

naturegirl321

Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Home sweet home

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:09 am Post subject:

livinginkorea wrote:

SKKU definitely has a good name for science and engineering. A friend of mine worked there a good while back. Pay wasn't great but students English was good he said.

Pay's pretty good now. We got TWO raises last year. Min salary is 40 mil with 20 weeks paid vacation. Check out the job adverts, there aren't a lot like it. And 40 mil is the min, most of us, well, ALL Of us, have extra classes and optional break classes for 2 to 5 weeks, so you could easily pull in another 10 mil a year.

zappadelta

Joined: 31 Aug 2004

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:08 pm Post subject:

naturegirl321 wrote:

zappadelta wrote:

Is it as prestigious working at a university's 2nd campus as the main campus? Like working at Yonsei-Wonju compared to working at Yonsei-Seoul.

It's better Smile

We have the engineering students not the humanities students Wink

Pay and benefits are exactly the same as well. THough granted, we have less stress than the Seoul campus.

Wow, the contracts are the same? I know, at Yonsei for example, they are very different between the two campuses, which almost makes it seem like there is absolutlely no connection between the two, like that they are two totally separate entities.

naturegirl321

Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Home sweet home

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:13 pm Post subject:

zappadelta wrote:

Yep, the same. Actually, we wish we had "hardship pay" like some places do with their branch campuses Smile

Oh, in addition, it says that we can work on either campuses, (and some teachers work on both) so yep, they're the same!

Last edited by naturegirl321 on Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

bigpun

Joined: 16 May 2007

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:20 pm Post subject: Apples to Oranges...

SKKU and Yonsei have had very different approaches to their two different campuses - SKKU makes no distinction between instructors at their two campuses, offering the same pay and conditions. So do Korea Univeristy and Hongik University - Hongik offers even more money to those working at their rural campus, but conditions there are much more...primitive. Yonsei isn't in the same league as those others as far as their two campuses compare, at least in terms of English Education. Wonju was by far and away the poor sister - and the latest knee-jerk reaction by the administration is supposed to fix all that. The details are all my upcoming expose! I want to be like Naturegirl and ZD when I grow up! Permission to PM?

Thiuda

Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist f�r Sklaven geschaffen, f�r Wesen ohne Geist.

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Apples to Oranges...

bigpun wrote:

Yonsei isn't in the same league as those others as far as their two campuses compare, at least in terms of English Education. Wonju was by far and away the poor sister - and the latest knee-jerk reaction by the administration is supposed to fix all that. The details are all my upcoming expose! I want to be like Naturegirl and ZD when I grow up! Permission to PM?

From what I understand, Yonsei has decided to bring Wonju campus into line with its Seoul Campus. The salary has increased substantially, from 2.4 mill a month to 3.5 mill a month and the hours went from 24h/w to 15h/w. In addition, vac went from 12 weeks to 20. I don't know the ins-and-outs of the situation, but the new NTP contracts look pretty sweet.

Carbon

Joined: 28 Jan 2011

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:32 pm Post subject:

From what I understand Hanyang University has 2 campuses as well; Seoul and Ansan. From what I hear, they are equal in terms of benefits and pay. Either would be nice there...anyone have any more info?

olsanairbase

Joined: 30 Aug 2010

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:45 pm Post subject:

naturegirl321 wrote:

zappadelta wrote:

One of the top unis in Korea is in Suwon? Didn't know that.

Yep, SKKU has a science and engineering campus in Suwon. They're number 4 or 5 depending on which ranking you look at.

olsanairbase wrote:

Quote:

I took a look at your link to find out your basis of "higher ed administration is based on the maximum of two classes from a generic menu that is not even part of your primary course matter of your degree.

Quote:

Course structure

Units for appellation
Trimester 1
ECV705 Learning and Development in Organisations (X)

ECV711 Training for Diverse Learners and Contexts (X)

Trimester 2
EEN706 Lifelong Learning (X)

ECV704 Expanding Ideas of Competency (X)

ECV712 Situated Learning At Work (X)

Generic units
The three generic units focus on contemporary educational and training issues which can be applied to any specialist study and are designed to be compatible with online technologies and to complement the specialist units. Each generic unit may be tailored toward the specialist interests of the student.
Trimester 1
EXE731 Advancing Professional Development (B, X)

EXE737 Leading and Managing Learning Organisations (B, X)

Trimester 2
EXE735 Evaluation: Improvement and Accountability (B, X)

EXE737 Leading and Managing Learning Organisations (B, X)

Now compare that to a real degree in higher ed administration

Quote:

Program of Study
Prerequisite Courses:
ELS 660, COUN 635, or ECI 635 (or equivalent)
ELS 732 Statistics Applied to Educational Research 1 (or equivalent)
Research Core: (15 credit hours)
ELS 831 Accountability in Educational Leadership
FOUN 832 Statistics Applied to Educational Research 2
FOUN 833 Advanced Research Design and Analysis
FOUN 890 Qualitative Research Design
FOUN 891 Program Evaluation in Education
Educational Leadership and Services Concentration Courses:
(18 credit hours)
ELS 811 Leadership Theory for Educational Improvement
ELS 815 Leadership for Equity and Inclusive Education
ELS 821 Policy and Politics in Educational Leadership
ELS 835 Organizational Theory and Behavior in Education
ELS 876 Ethics, Integrity, and Social Justice in Education
ELS 878 Leadership for Teaching and Learning
Electives: (12 hours - choose 4 classes)*
ELS 864 History and Philosophy of American Public School Reform
ELS 871 Educational Systems, Planning, and Futures
ELS 874 Advanced School Law, Finance, and Operations
ELS 880 Multicultural Curriculum Leadership and Globalization
ELS 883 Contemporary Issues in Education

*With advisor approval, two of these courses may be substituted with courses outside of the educational leadership program to allow students to form cognate areas.
Capstone Course: (3 credit hours)
ELS 881 Dissertation Seminar
Dissertation: (Minimum of 12 credit hours)
ELS 899 Dissertation

But I am sure whatever you learned in those two courses of "Leading and Managing Learning Organisations" is the comparable equivalency of what I just listed above.

Last edited by olsanairbase on Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:37 am; edited 1 time in total

bigpun

Joined: 16 May 2007

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: Apples to Oranges...

Thiuda wrote:

bigpun wrote:

Yes, that is how it is supposed to be, but bears little resemblence to reality, at least for next year. Here are some of the ins and outs. The credit English speaking courses at Yonsei Sinchon are run through their own University Department, with faculty with graduate degrees, who may be referred to as NTPs (Non-Tenured Professors), while at Wonju the classes are run through the language institute (IEC) and were mostly taught by Instructors. The new positions that were offered this hiring session are a radical departure from the past in terms of salary and hours, but the new NTPs are still working under the Language Institute. There remains no clear plan to set up a proper university Department, or set up a proper selection of elective courses. The core program has changed a bit - no more mandatory TOEIC Listening for students, replaced by a piecemeal writing course for upper years, but nothing else by way of changes. The new NTPs are expected to contribute to program development, which of course isn't a bad thing. But there are other aspects to the new position which may not be so palatable. For example, other top schools will pay overtime for their short semesters for make-up classes during the vacations, but Yonsei will not, even for the NTPs. During the short semesters they must be available for 3 weeks for make-up classes (which is a lot better than being required to be available for 5 weeks - covering camps and language institute classes - that Instrctors are contracted for.) Vacation time is actually 16 weeks, not 20, and even that may be broken - upwards of a week between regular and short semesters, followed by the 3 weeks of duty, then the long vacation.) I was going to hold off on more details in this thread, but you made some interesting observations about working hours and salary. I mean, basically this job went from being a real "entry-level" unigwon job to being one one of the most attractive ones on offer. So I'll give you some more background.

Couple of things about the NTP contract - the wage offered is significantly higher than before, but it isn't the first time it's been seen. There was an old version of the NTP contract for some working there, with a higher base but no severance (nothing close to 3.5; more like 2.6ish - essentially NTPs were being paid exactly the same salary as Instructors, but in 12 installments rather than 13), fewer hours, and a private pension plan (which was basically the same 50/50 arrangement that the National Pension required.) These contracts were introduced a few years ago, and stipulated that after 5 years the university would increase its share of the pension contributions (which meant a bigger pension for NTPs if they stayed on long enough.) At the start of this past academic year the University decided that they would end these old NTP contracts at the end of the year, just as the first few NTPs would become eligible for a higher pension. This meant that those on NTP contracts this year, if they wanted to come back, would have to sign Instructor contracts, accept a drop in base pay and an increase in hours at the end of their current contracts, and lose the promise of a higher pension through the private pension plan. This was in addition to a change in contracts for Instructors, which dropped the raise to 2.4mil from 2 years ago back to the old base of 2.2mil for people starting this past year.

This new NTP contract actually came out of the blue. The IEC advertized Instructor positions on Eslcafe and at the KOTESOL conference this past Fall, but all these ads vanished over that weekend and the new ad for NTPs was online early the next week. This whole idea of bringing the poor stepsister campus up to higher standards was not exactly well thought out. And this is just part of the story here.

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