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Dan Gerous
Joined: 27 May 2011
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:18 am Post subject: |
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You mean people actually go to the Jefferson Memorial?
That thing is like the shoelace store in the quiet corner in the mall. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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This was by Code Pink. They were right that the constitution was trampled.
They should be allowed to protest. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
This was by Code Pink. They were right that the constitution was trampled.
They should be allowed to protest. |
What essential freedom was trampled here? |
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shifter2009
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Location: wisconsin
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| How about the freedom to quietly slow dance without a cop tackling you and cuffing you? |
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Patrick Bateman
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: Lost in Translation
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| shifter2009 wrote: |
| How about the freedom to quietly slow dance without a cop tackling you and cuffing you? |
There was clearly a lot more going on than that.
Why were the police called there in the first place?
Why was it being videotaped?
What happened before the video started?
Why were so many additional people involved?
It seems pretty obvious that they were, at the very least, staging some sort of illegal protest. They failed to comply with the officers' request to leave. They are therefore subject to removal by a nonviolent use of force. |
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shifter2009
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Location: wisconsin
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Patrick Bateman wrote: |
| shifter2009 wrote: |
| How about the freedom to quietly slow dance without a cop tackling you and cuffing you? |
There was clearly a lot more going on than that.
Why were the police called there in the first place?
Why was it being videotaped?
What happened before the video started?
Why were so many additional people involved?
It seems pretty obvious that they were, at the very least, staging some sort of illegal protest. They failed to comply with the officers' request to leave. They are therefore subject to removal by a nonviolent use of force. |
I saw a middle aged couple try and slow dance a cop tackle them. They weren't causing a dangerous disturbance, they weren't causing noise pollution, they weren't causing property damage and they weren't impeding foot traffic, there is no reason not to use your common sense and ignore them. Instead you got on video a bunch of cops tackling people and cuffing them like storm troopers. If that's the country you want, fine. For me, its videos like this that remind me that "America the land of the free" is one of the biggest joke lines going |
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Patrick Bateman
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: Lost in Translation
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| shifter2009 wrote: |
| Patrick Bateman wrote: |
| shifter2009 wrote: |
| How about the freedom to quietly slow dance without a cop tackling you and cuffing you? |
There was clearly a lot more going on than that.
Why were the police called there in the first place?
Why was it being videotaped?
What happened before the video started?
Why were so many additional people involved?
It seems pretty obvious that they were, at the very least, staging some sort of illegal protest. They failed to comply with the officers' request to leave. They are therefore subject to removal by a nonviolent use of force. |
I saw a middle aged couple try and slow dance a cop tackle them. They weren't causing a dangerous disturbance, they weren't causing noise pollution, they weren't causing property damage and they weren't impeding foot traffic, there is no reason not to use your common sense and ignore them. Instead you got on video a bunch of cops tackling people and cuffing them like storm troopers. If that's the country you want, fine. For me, its videos like this that remind me that "America the land of the free" is one of the biggest joke lines going |
None of that addresses any of my questions.
If you cannot watch the video and see that there is a lot more going on, you are painfully naive.
I'm not saying that the U.S. is free from serious problems related to security and freedom, but this is not a proper example.
Also, if you want to argue that the laws these people violated are frivolous or detrimental, fine, but again, that has no bearing on the video. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Patrick Bateman wrote: |
| shifter2009 wrote: |
| How about the freedom to quietly slow dance without a cop tackling you and cuffing you? |
There was clearly a lot more going on than that.
Why were the police called there in the first place?
Why was it being videotaped?
What happened before the video started?
Why were so many additional people involved?
It seems pretty obvious that they were, at the very least, staging some sort of illegal protest. They failed to comply with the officers' request to leave. They are therefore subject to removal by a nonviolent use of force. |
It truly amazes me that people can watch such a disgraceful video and still come out defending these scumbag cops  Seriously, have you no spine? Why is your gut reaction to lick the authorities' boots instead of feeling outrage? One day that'll be your face they're slamming into the pavement, shouting at you while they're cuffing you like a common criminal.
Seeing this sort of thing makes me very angry... Apparently a whole bunch more people are organizing to go back there and dance again and show those bastard cops that they have no authority to stop people from doing harmless, peaceful activities in public spaces. I wish I could be there. |
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Patrick Bateman
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: Lost in Translation
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
It truly amazes me that people can watch such a disgraceful video and still come out defending these scumbag cops Seriously, have you no spine? Why is your gut reaction to lick the authorities' boots instead of feeling outrage? One day that'll be your face they're slamming into the pavement, shouting at you while they're cuffing you like a common criminal.
Seeing this sort of thing makes me very angry... Apparently a whole bunch more people are organizing to go back there and dance again and show those bastard cops that they have no authority to stop people from doing harmless, peaceful activities in public spaces. I wish I could be there. |
It truly amazes me that a person that questions the government constantly will automatically believe something that seems to prove the position they already hold, even though the source is clearly biased. Do you have no critical thinking skills? |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| Patrick Bateman wrote: |
| If you cannot watch the video and see that there is a lot more going on, you are painfully naive. |
Pu-lease. There was nothing going on. That is a public place, built by and funded with tax dollars. People are free to go there and engage in peaceful activities like dancing quietly. Those police had no right to do what they did. They are supposed to be civil servants, not our overlords standing around intimidating, shouting at or arresting people at a whim. And having people like yourself actually defending such behavior is equally as horrible. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| Patrick Bateman wrote: |
| Do you have no critical thinking skills? |
If you have any evidence (or secret footage up your sleeve) showing that anything illegal was going on, then provide it. Until then you've got nothing. The video clearly shows that they were just standing around, doing some harmless dancing, and then the cop came up and told them to stop (which he didn't have the right to do). Even if the dancing was meant to "provoke" the cops, then GOOD. They have to take it. They don't have the right to yell at, body slam, handcuff and arrest people just to satisfy their power trip. Those cops should all lose their jobs over this. Seriously. |
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Patrick Bateman
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: Lost in Translation
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| Patrick Bateman wrote: |
| If you cannot watch the video and see that there is a lot more going on, you are painfully naive. |
Pu-lease. There was nothing going on. That is a public place, built by and funded with tax dollars. People are free to go there and engage in peaceful activities like dancing quietly. Those police had no right to do what they did. They are supposed to be civil servants, not our overlords standing around intimidating, shouting at or arresting people at a whim. And having people like yourself actually defending such behavior is equally as horrible. |
People do not have a legal right to stage a protest whenever and however they please. Like I said earlier, if you want to argue against that law, fine, but at the time of the video it is a law and the police have an obligation to enforce it.
| visitorq wrote: |
If you have any evidence (or secret footage up your sleeve) showing that anything illegal was going on, then provide it. Until then you've got nothing. The video clearly shows that they were just standing around, doing some harmless dancing, and then the cop came up and told them to stop (which he didn't have the right to do). Even if the dancing was meant to "provoke" the cops, then GOOD. They have to take it. They don't have the right to yell at, body slam, handcuff and arrest people just to satisfy their power trip. Those cops should all lose their jobs over this. Seriously. |
The proof is provided by the video itself. It starts with the police already there and talking with the people. Why did the police come and what all was said? Also if you listen closely there is mention of some sort of occurrence that happened earlier.
Body Slam? Seriously? The guy�s friend was attempting to pull him away from the officer and it looks like their feet got tangled and they fell.
I asked some pertinent questions and you claim I don�t have a spine? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:40 am Post subject: |
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I need more facts.
What are the laws relating to protesting in Washington DC, specifically at monuments and memorials?
Did the protesters have permits? Were permits required for this sort of behavior?
What happened before the camera began recording?
Okay. I found something.
Federal judge rules no dancing at Jefferson Memorial
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A federal judge has thrown out a lawsuit that alleged the National Park Service violated the rights of a District woman who was arrested in 2008 for dancing with 17 others at the Jefferson Memorial.
U.S. District Judge John D. Bates ruled in a 26-page opinion on Monday that the interior of the memorial is not a public forum where people may dance, even if they are silently boogying to music on headphones. |
If the interiors of memorials are not public forums, then the government may curtail acts of protest and demonstration within.
I don't understand where the police get the authority to shut off the cameras, though.
Nevertheless, these protesters did the right thing. They are challenging the ruling through civil disobedience. Later they can issue a First Amendment suit. The officers also did the right thing, they are upholding the current law. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| Patrick Bateman wrote: |
| People do not have a legal right to stage a protest whenever and however they please. |
Actually, YES THEY DO. In a public space, as long as it is peaceful. The cops do not have the right to arrest people whenever and however they please.
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| Like I said earlier, if you want to argue against that law, fine, but at the time of the video it is a law and the police have an obligation to enforce it. |
There is no law. And even if there were, the cops have the obligation to obey the constitution. "Just obeying orders" is no excuse.
| Quote: |
| The proof is provided by the video itself. It starts with the police already there and talking with the people. Why did the police come and what all was said? Also if you listen closely there is mention of some sort of occurrence that happened earlier. |
Actually it starts with the policeman walking up to them and telling them they will be arrested if they dance. If something illegal had happened before that then the police wouldn't be strolling up all macho-like giving them a "warning". This is obvious.
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| Body Slam? Seriously? The guy�s friend was attempting to pull him away from the officer and it looks like their feet got tangled and they fell. |
More apologetics. Those dirt-bag cops had no right to even lay a finger on any of them without cause (and clearly there was no cause). They should all be fired and/or charged with assault.
| Quote: |
| I asked some pertinent questions and you claim I don�t have a spine? |
It seemed pretty obvious that your questions were meant to excuse the cops' behavior. Anyway, let me answer for you:
Why were the police called there in the first place?
- Apparently to enforce the make-believe law against dancing
Why was it being videotaped?
- Why not? It's (supposed to be) a free country and that's a public space.
What happened before the video started?
- Nothing happened. Perhaps they were dancing? So what? Obviously if they had been doing something illegal like vandalizing property or threatening people, then the cops wouldn't have strolled up and gave them a 'warning' not to dance.
Why were so many additional people involved?
- There was a group of them. Again, so what? Is there a law against a bunch of people assembling at a national monument and quietly dancing? Or a law against them talking back at their lord and masters, the police? Give me a break. |
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