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tgrear2008
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
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 Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:14 am Post subject: |
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I'm real sick of people trying to make me feel bad for liking pot. Everyone wants to be a little dictator bossing other people around- it makes them feel superior or something.
Some of you must have portraits of Nancy Reagan on your walls, with your DARE junior officer badges.
Keep your opinions to yourself you preachy killjoys. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| Carbon wrote: |
| Now, I would say that one characterizing the laws here as being "draconian" works against any claim to "Never even made any argument for/against Korea and its policy on marijuana". Other words are much less pejorative and I am sure that one would choose another if they didn't want to show their strong feelings about this topic. |
Perhaps you're the one who needs a dictionary: draconian: Very severe, oppressive or strict. Korea's drug laws are intentionally severe, repressive, and strict. To acknowledge that fact is not to pass any value judgment upon it. |
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jfromtheway
Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| Carbon wrote: |
Last post in this thread:
I reacted the way I did (which was not irresponsible; check a dictionary) because the guy was/is smoking right down to the wire. He was worried about the pending medical test which, and I am assuming he did some reading before deciding to go halfway around the world, he knew was inevitable. He asks how sensitive the machine is and how long the time period between getting your ARC (right away, typically) and the test. This guy must have been hitting in the car on the way to the airport, or planning to.
This is irresponsible, in a very literal sense. If he hasn't left yet and departure is eminent, then the same thing applies; he should have stopped some time ago to let it clear his system.
No matter the situation, if you are worried about the test when you arrive, it is illustrative of poor planning and self control which, if you are caught/turned away, etc, is irresponsible regarding both himself and those who are here and have to live under the shadow cast by such events.
jfromtheway, your position is clear. Being "being anonymously vilifying and immature towards a complete stranger" is not 'irresponsible', except in some vague, non-literal sense. His post implicated him, not me and I would call his behavior immature (not stopping sooner), not mine. I was reactionary or impulsive at worst.
Now, I would say that one characterizing the laws here as being "draconian" works against any claim to "Never even made any argument for/against Korea and its policy on marijuana". Other words are much less pejorative and I am sure that one would choose another if they didn't want to show their strong feelings about this topic.
I would say that you are biased, while I and others remain only biased toward not wanting to carry the burden of others. I have never condemned one who partakes outside Korea; that is not my business and I honestly don't care. Your bias is seems to be making you read things into the topic that in reality are not there. Relax. Nobody is taking a black or white stance on the general issue of use. I think I have been quite clear that my point of view is framed with "in Korea". |
OK, you seem fairly reasonable, and I understand your point of view. Maybe he was cutting it close to the wire regarding his pending drug test, but that's still merely speculation. You're likely more right than you are wrong, but that doesn't justify condemning the individual, and making self-righteous assumptions.
2nd point, I agreed before that if you can't clear your system for 30 days before coming here, it's not worth it. But, again, he'll be sent back immediately if he fails the test, in most cases. And it is illustrative of poor self control, I agreed with that point previously.
3rd, it WAS immature and reactionary on your part, which is why I said something to begin with. But his post did not implicate him in anything: He asked about a drug test, and he got a non-answer, ill-informed reactionary response in return.
4th, Ugh, I knew the "draconian drug laws" thing would come back on me the second I wrote it, and I deleted the potential counter response I sensed would come as a result; which was that Korean draconian drug laws aren't really a  concept, just a reality of narco-police states prevalent in Asia as a whole. It's not a far out concept, nor a poorly conceived judgment I derived myself.
5th, yeah, I'm biased, you're biased, we're all biased. Nothing is black and white, as you said. But when you try to bully "noobspeak" people on the internet over a trivial issue, I'm entitled to a counter reaction. But, to be fair, your reaction was not an "in Korea" reaction, it was a belittling, eff this guy attempting to come to Korea who I assume is a pothead, response. That's the only part I had a problem with. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| tgrear2008 wrote: |
I'm real sick of people trying to make me feel bad for liking pot. Everyone wants to be a little dictator bossing other people around- it makes them feel superior or something.
Some of you must have portraits of Nancy Reagan on your walls, with your DARE junior officer badges.
Keep your opinions to yourself you preachy killjoys. |
You can love the leaf all you want my man. No worries.
Smoke the weed in Korea however and that makes you stupid and unaware and opens you up to jail time. Korea ain't the US or Canada in terms of law and order when it comes to drug and people need to realize this. It has nothing to do with liking or not liking pot or feeling superior. It has all to do with making smart choices and being aware. Thats all. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:37 am Post subject: |
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tgrear2008 wrote:
I'm real sick of people trying to make me feel bad for liking pot. Everyone wants to be a little dictator bossing other people around- it makes them feel superior or something.
Some of you must have portraits of Nancy Reagan on your walls, with your DARE junior officer badges.
Keep your opinions to yourself you preachy killjoys.
*>*
Oh please, are you really that selfish?
What you fail to realize is that your choices affect other people.
Yes, in a perfect world there would be no restrictions, but you are talking about working in the land of K.
It was because of someone who thinks like you do that we now have all the police checks and garbage to deal with.
Way to go! Just how much more personal freedom can we stand?
No one cares if you want to smoke pot in your home country, do it till you turn blue if that makes you happy.
But when you are planning on working in a foreign country, show a little consideration for your fellow expats. Every time someone gets "caught"
with pot in Korea, it affects all of us. It means more police checks, more frequent and expensive medical tests etc.
It's not just about YOU. |
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Carbon
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
Perhaps you're the one who needs a dictionary: draconian: Very severe, oppressive or strict. Korea's drug laws are intentionally severe, repressive, and strict. To acknowledge that fact is not to pass any value judgment upon it. |
The term is pejorative; offenses perceived by the perpetrator as insignificant are dealt with by the authorities in an overly harsh manner (the punishment doesn't fit the crime). The synonyms are more revealing than the word. I would regard it as a perception - abstract language - as opposed to a more concrete word like "harsh" or "strict". As an example of a more concrete use, I would characterize the Singaporean chewing gum law as draconian, as chewing gum is not seen as being controversial.
As for framing my comments in Korea, yes, I may have been initially vague, but I think it is a safe assumption that in the job-related section of the Korean forum, most items are framed as such. The only comment that was not appropriate was this: "Something is turning your brain to paranoid mush, that's for sure." So yeah, that was out of line and certainly something that Nancy would approve of.
| Quote: |
| "3rd, it WAS immature and reactionary on your part, which is why I said something to begin with. But his post did not implicate him in anything: He asked about a drug test, and he got a non-answer, ill-informed reactionary response in return." |
I admitted as much, but it was not irresponsible.
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| 5th, yeah, I'm biased, you're biased... |
Yes, as I said, I am biased against those who in any way threaten or otherwise negatively affect my way of life here.
I have no opinion one way or the other what people smoke outside Korea. The harsh drug laws in Asia are well documented and any responsible person who partakes should get it together soon enough for this not to be an issue at all, ever. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| Carbon wrote: |
| Now, I would say that one characterizing the laws here as being "draconian" works against any claim to "Never even made any argument for/against Korea and its policy on marijuana". Other words are much less pejorative and I am sure that one would choose another if they didn't want to show their strong feelings about this topic. |
Perhaps you're the one who needs a dictionary: draconian: Very severe, oppressive or strict. Korea's drug laws are intentionally severe, repressive, and strict. To acknowledge that fact is not to pass any value judgment upon it. |
Actually calling Korean drug laws draconian (at least as they relate to pot) is a bit of hyperbole. From the Gusts of Popular Feeling article
| Quote: |
| "Suspended sentences or other lenient punishments like fines are actually not that uncommon. It only seems to be in recent years that the sentences of foreign teachers have been reported, and the ones I've come across include an American teacher in Jeju who was fined for importing marijuana seeds in July 2010, another American teacher in Jeju who got a suspended sentence for mailing herself a cake made of marijuana (in August 2010), an American teacher in Busan who got a suspended sentence for mailing himself JWH-018 in September 2010, and three Korean Canadians arrested for Ketamine (or meth) who received suspended sentences in September 2011. Also, as it turns out, the teacher arrested in November for smuggling hash (a 'new kind of drug'!) from Canada ended up getting a suspended sentence as well (2 and a half year sentence suspended for three years, along with a 1,450,000 won fine) at the end of December. [I should add that US soldiers tried for drug offenses in July and November last year and January this year also received fines or suspended sentences." |
Compare them to countries like the Philippines, China, Thailand and even the U.S where you can get the death penalty (China/Thailand) or life in prison (Philippines/U.S) and they amount to a slap on the wrist in many cases.
That said, yes one would have to be a moron to risk it over here. Sadly as we can see in the above cases and the occasional drug busts every so often there is no shortage of idiots. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| tgrear2008 wrote: |
I'm real sick of people trying to make me feel bad for liking pot. Everyone wants to be a little dictator bossing other people around- it makes them feel superior or something.
Some of you must have portraits of Nancy Reagan on your walls, with your DARE junior officer badges.
Keep your opinions to yourself you preachy killjoys. |
You can love the leaf all you want my man. No worries.
Smoke the weed in Korea however and that makes you stupid and unaware and opens you up to jail time. Korea ain't the US or Canada in terms of law and order when it comes to drug and people need to realize this. It has nothing to do with liking or not liking pot or feeling superior. It has all to do with making smart choices and being aware. Thats all. |
Sure. Do I think pot should be legal in Korea? Sure, why not? Many Koreans feel that it should be, as a matter of fact. It's excellent for pain management and since the local population is aging, there are many people who could benefit from its use.
But, it remains that every time someone on an E2 gets caught with pot, he has the book thrown at him since he's a guests here and his arrest is exploited by cops and politicians who are either against immigration or the legalization of marijuana (it was being debated a few years back) and the local tabloid press, thus making life more difficult for those of us who realize that it's just not worth the risk. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Actually calling Korean drug laws draconian (at least as they relate to pot) is a bit of hyperbole. From the Gusts of Popular Feeling article
| Quote: |
| "Suspended sentences or other lenient punishments like fines are actually not that uncommon. It only seems to be in recent years that the sentences of foreign teachers have been reported, and the ones I've come across include an American teacher in Jeju who was fined for importing marijuana seeds in July 2010, another American teacher in Jeju who got a suspended sentence for mailing herself a cake made of marijuana (in August 2010), an American teacher in Busan who got a suspended sentence for mailing himself JWH-018 in September 2010, and three Korean Canadians arrested for Ketamine (or meth) who received suspended sentences in September 2011. Also, as it turns out, the teacher arrested in November for smuggling hash (a 'new kind of drug'!) from Canada ended up getting a suspended sentence as well (2 and a half year sentence suspended for three years, along with a 1,450,000 won fine) at the end of December. [I should add that US soldiers tried for drug offenses in July and November last year and January this year also received fines or suspended sentences." |
Compare them to countries like the Philippines, China, Thailand and even the U.S where you can get the death penalty (China/Thailand) or life in prison (Philippines/U.S) and they amount to a slap on the wrist in many cases. |
Claiming that Korean cannabis laws are more lax than those in the States is a bit absurd. Here you can got to jail for years for having a very small amount of the substance on your person. In many US states (including my own home state of Massachusetts), you can have up to an ounce on you and have it amount to nothing more than a parking ticket. While enforcement might be relatively lax, the laws are significantly harsher than the standard in the States, at least on paper. |
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tgrear2008
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:01 am Post subject: |
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Never did I once say I was smoking in Korea. You know, I thought about including a disclaimer with that statement in my last post, but I didn't think it was necessary.
Then comes the pile on....hurr durr you cant smoke in Korea durr make us look bad durrr.
No kidding. I dont, I never did. My point is I'm sick of people talking trash about weed across the planet. Dont talk down to me like you are some better human being cause you dont smoke weed. |
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jfromtheway
Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| Fine prose above. Err. I take back everything I said, I'm with Carbon. I'm feeling the change in environment. |
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Carbon
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
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xinchao
Joined: 18 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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I've read the entire thread on this matter and I don't understand everyone's behaviour on the topic. I am an older gentleman who has travelled extensively throughout the world (I've lived a charmed life and am grateful for it). I am about to go to Korea also. The medical test would worry me and i don't even smoke. But that is just me.
However, the young man was only asking a simple question. Soft drugs like marijuana etc are illegal and shouldn't be taken in a country where it is illegal. There are of course varying degrees of illegality in that some countries will not deport you or put you in some sort of "Hilton" and others that well, they execute you for smuggling drugs in (Singapore comes to mind!) therefore, caution must be applied at all times.
So in my opinion, this guy is correct to ask the question. The rest of the people who want to impart their opinion are fully entitled to do so, however, only as long as it is polite and constructive. No-one needs crusaders or smart arses. This is supposedly an adult forum for adults. Treat in such a way and be more responsible in your answers. No need to bicker. It reflects badly on you as teachers as teachers should be open-minded yet informed.
Jumping to conclusions and being rude to someone does not reflect well on any of you. In fact, it shows that you should spend a little more time doing other things in life rather than believeing that you are solidly correct in your convictions. nothing in life is black and white and nothing is black and white when it comes to human behaviour.
But you are somewhat correct in what you say, taking drugs in a country where the laws are strict, does require one to be responsible and adhere to the laws that are set out to all residents and citizens. However, his question wasn't a moral question and didn't require a moral answer either.
So i'll put my opinion forward. Don't smoke for at least 40 days before you arrive. Detox well. DON'T SMOKE IN KOREA. And not because it reflects badly on the "teachers" there, but because it would reflect badly on you as a person and on your family. If everybody worried about what everybody else thought we would live in a microcosm.
The average person doesn't care what another person does as long as it doesn't infringe on their life. From the amount of cowboys that teach in Korea it's easy to see why there are issues there. I have met some really weird people in S.E. Asia it's a magnet for weird people full stop. However, people don't seem to realise that these issues are everywhere. Americans, Europeans etc all have made mistakes in Asia.
And lots of Asians and foreigners in my country have made mistakes too but that doesn't mean i judge them nor do most people in my country judge them either. I think that is a bit of a stretch to be honest.
As i said, get your act together, eat and drink plenty of water. Detox by exercising and losing body fat. Get in shape and eat your greens and you'll be fine. After that make the most of your experience there. To be honest if you are living in a different country you should be out there more doing things to intergrate into their society rather than spending so much time on a computer. Sounds quite isolating and lonely to be honest.
Best of luck to you in your endeavours.
P.S. a little few words that always made me excited when i thought of travelling:
Fill your heart with simple joy Traveller,
Scatter freely along the road,
the treasure you gather as you go. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Actually calling Korean drug laws draconian (at least as they relate to pot) is a bit of hyperbole. From the Gusts of Popular Feeling article
| Quote: |
| "Suspended sentences or other lenient punishments like fines are actually not that uncommon. It only seems to be in recent years that the sentences of foreign teachers have been reported, and the ones I've come across include an American teacher in Jeju who was fined for importing marijuana seeds in July 2010, another American teacher in Jeju who got a suspended sentence for mailing herself a cake made of marijuana (in August 2010), an American teacher in Busan who got a suspended sentence for mailing himself JWH-018 in September 2010, and three Korean Canadians arrested for Ketamine (or meth) who received suspended sentences in September 2011. Also, as it turns out, the teacher arrested in November for smuggling hash (a 'new kind of drug'!) from Canada ended up getting a suspended sentence as well (2 and a half year sentence suspended for three years, along with a 1,450,000 won fine) at the end of December. [I should add that US soldiers tried for drug offenses in July and November last year and January this year also received fines or suspended sentences." |
Compare them to countries like the Philippines, China, Thailand and even the U.S where you can get the death penalty (China/Thailand) or life in prison (Philippines/U.S) and they amount to a slap on the wrist in many cases. |
Claiming that Korean cannabis laws are more lax than those in the States is a bit absurd. Here you can got to jail for years for having a very small amount of the substance on your person. In many US states (including my own home state of Massachusetts), you can have up to an ounce on you and have it amount to nothing more than a parking ticket. While enforcement might be relatively lax, the laws are significantly harsher than the standard in the States, at least on paper. |
My point was that the penalties vary. Do you have any cases where a foreigner was jailed for years (never mind LIFE) in Korea for having a very small amount of the substance?
Here's a few cases in the States where the person could be facing life in prison.
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2010/aug/10/man-indicted-in-marijuana-case/
http://missoulian.com/news/local/article_89711090-5b4f-11e0-9e31-001cc4c002e0.html
| Quote: |
| Otto faces a maximum penalty of life in prison and a $50,000 fine. |
Here's someone who actually DID get life for having pot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ2z_RsBKjw
And here's an interview
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/dope/interviews/schlosser.html
ERIC SCHLOSSER
| Quote: |
Under the laws of fifteen states, you can get a life sentence for a nonviolent marijuana offense. And the average sentence for a convicted murder in this country is about six years. In the state of California, the average prison sentence for a convicted killer is about 3.3 years. So that enormous discrepancy between how violent crimes tend to be treated and how some nonviolent drug crimes are treated points to a very irrational impulse in this country to punish when it comes to marijuana.
In terms of the discrepancies between marijuana laws in different states--most people don't realize that the drug laws of this state operate at the federal, local and state level so you can be charged under any one of those three types of laws for a marijuana crime. And the punishment that you're going to receive for the same crime can vary enormously depending upon what state you're in and who decided to prosecute you.
For example, in Montana you can get a life sentence for a first offense for growing one marijuana plant. In New Mexico, which is not far away, you can be growing ten thousand marijuana plants for a first offense and get a punishment of no more than three years. Under federal law, you can get the death sentence for a first-time marijuana offense even if there's no violence involved. Anyone who's caught with 60,000 plants, which seems like a lot of pot, but if you're the person driving the truck for that conspiracy you may not be the kingpin can be given the death sentence under federal law. |
[bolding mine]
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:24 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Actually calling Korean drug laws draconian (at least as they relate to pot) is a bit of hyperbole. From the Gusts of Popular Feeling article
| Quote: |
| "Suspended sentences or other lenient punishments like fines are actually not that uncommon. It only seems to be in recent years that the sentences of foreign teachers have been reported, and the ones I've come across include an American teacher in Jeju who was fined for importing marijuana seeds in July 2010, another American teacher in Jeju who got a suspended sentence for mailing herself a cake made of marijuana (in August 2010), an American teacher in Busan who got a suspended sentence for mailing himself JWH-018 in September 2010, and three Korean Canadians arrested for Ketamine (or meth) who received suspended sentences in September 2011. Also, as it turns out, the teacher arrested in November for smuggling hash (a 'new kind of drug'!) from Canada ended up getting a suspended sentence as well (2 and a half year sentence suspended for three years, along with a 1,450,000 won fine) at the end of December. [I should add that US soldiers tried for drug offenses in July and November last year and January this year also received fines or suspended sentences." |
Compare them to countries like the Philippines, China, Thailand and even the U.S where you can get the death penalty (China/Thailand) or life in prison (Philippines/U.S) and they amount to a slap on the wrist in many cases. |
Claiming that Korean cannabis laws are more lax than those in the States is a bit absurd. Here you can got to jail for years for having a very small amount of the substance on your person. In many US states (including my own home state of Massachusetts), you can have up to an ounce on you and have it amount to nothing more than a parking ticket. While enforcement might be relatively lax, the laws are significantly harsher than the standard in the States, at least on paper. |
Maybe you don't know this but FEDERAL laws are much stricter than many states laws and when the two come into conflict Federal laws overrule
| Quote: |
]What are "Federal" Marijuana Laws?
Federal marijuana laws are the laws that the federal government enacts to criminalize majijuana possession, sale, and cultivation. Each U.S. state also passes their own marijuana laws, but when these laws are in conflict with the federal rules, the federal rules control. Traditionally drug crimes are prosecuted at the state level. But because some states have decriminalized marijuana crimes (such as for medicinal purposes), federal prosecutions for marijuana possession/sale/cultivation are becoming more common.
The distinction is important, because while many states have rather lax laws concerning marijuana use, the Federal Government has some extremely strict penalties, some of which involve decades of jail time.
What Amount of Marijuana Do I Have to Carry to Violate Federal Law?
ANY amount. Unlike many states, the federal law does not qualify possession by amount. Possession of any amount of marijuana (even a single marijuana cigarette) is punishable by up to a year in jail and a fine of $1,000 on the first offense. The second offense carries a 15-day mandatory sentence, and can be extended for as long as two years in prison. Any possession after that gets a 90-day to three year prison term, and a $5,000 fine. (It should also be noted that distribution of a small amount of marijuana for no money is usually treated as simple possession). |
http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/federal-marijuana-laws.html |
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