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Kennyftw
Joined: 08 Aug 2011
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 Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| mmstyle wrote: |
Morrison Hotel...good luck back home. Hope you find the job what you need it to be, and enjoy having family, friends, and familiarity around you again.
I'm with eamo, though. I came here with some debt, and paid it off. I am saving more here than I ever could back home. I still get my annual social security statements, and they are a joke. Maybe I can't save enough for retirement here, but I couldn't do it back home, either. But, that has a lot to do with the way he economy in general is being run, and that's a conversation for another thread. I don't think that Korea is any more a mirage of financial security than my home country is. Millions thought that they were saving for retirement by paying a mortgage, expecting a rise in equity with the housing boom. It failed, and now many people not only don't have the equity, they can't even sell the house they have (assuming they haven't been foreclosed on).
It was interesting listening to that guy, but I wasn't expecting to hear that he didn't have a degree. I listened to another vid of his while doing some work, after he had been home for 2 years. He was a bit cagey about it...but he still doesn't have a degree.
Kenny, I think you are in a very different situation from that guy in the vid.you are a licensed teacher. Did I not read that you will be marrying a Korean woman soon? Is she willing to live in another country? |
Well, I am a fair kind of guy. My soon to be wife is not that keen on moving to the States for a while because nobody would be here for her mom, and add to that the fact that she wouldn't be able to find work (and I, for that matter), so it makes sense to stay here and have her working (making more than I do) and save while we can. She agreed to move there eventually, say in 10-14 years from now--which I suggested. |
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Squire
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:53 am Post subject: |
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| How many of us left behind great economies with careers we can jump straight into? Not many, maybe none. I know I'd just be making a basic living back home (at best) working some minimum wage job I probably wouldn't like. I see no harm spending two or three years in Asia while you figure out something long term |
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Kennyftw
Joined: 08 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| creeper1 wrote: |
| Kennyftw wrote: |
I watched the video. But doesn't he say that he doesn't have a degree? Or does he not have a degree in Education? I'm thinking the former. And if that's the case, that's 90% of the reason why he doesn't have a better job in the States. He should have parked his butt right down there in China and stayed there.
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No. He doesn't have a degree so he is a little different from us. Also he is in China and we are in Korea. You say his problem is he doesn't have a degree BUT you then go on to talk about how even though you have an education degree you can't get work.
I guess the guy is not comparable to you. With educational credentials you should be chasing international school jobs.
Then you'd have a good job. |
I believe you need 2 years minimum of Western classroom experience, which I have only a 1/2 year long-term subbing for my sister when she got pregnant. I don't think time in Korea counts. Can anyone verify this? And do they require a Masters? I have a Bachelors. |
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brickabrack
Joined: 17 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:12 am Post subject: Re: I have to agree with Gamecock on this one. |
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| Lonewolf wrote: |
| I came here because I wanted to. Not because I had to because there were no jobs. I ran my own company back in America. I got bored and wanted something new and different. Not everyone here is in it for the money. Some of us enjoy being in Asia. I lived in Asia many years ago, and I enjoyed it. Some of us actually like being here. Just for that one reason most of you new people want to label us as losers. I think not! I have it pretty nice in fact. I have learned a lot and met a lot of nice people here as well as a few new friends. I would consider family. I don't consider it losing when you are enjoying life and doing what you want to do. I have found most people who are complaining like this are the ones with empty apartments no furniture and no decorations on the walls. Just a TV or computer a bed and the least amount of things needed to survive. That's not living. |
Exactly. Not many places anywhere will you get 10-12 weeks off to go explore the many other Asian countries. Time is waayyyy more important to some than money. I'm an adventurer. I spend my funds on travel and good food/drink and cultural experiences.
If you're one of the poor souls that has amassed debt, then this is a good place to save and pay down.
If you're one of the poor souls that couldn't find a job in your home country, and this was your only outlet....well, enjoy it. Learn and make the most of it.
Korea is not fantastic, but some opps are more available here than other places in the world. |
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mmstyle
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: wherever
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:22 am Post subject: |
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Kenny I don't know about Korean international schools, but there are definitely places where your quals can earn you good money (although it may take you putting more time in) but the fact that your wife wants to remain in Korea means that you need to look into work here, of course. I was actually asking if she would be willing to move to a third country, but if she is doing better, then hey-don't knock it.
I can understand that she wants to have her family around. Also, doing this kind of thing as a couple makes a huge difference for a number of reasons. My husband and I are both here teaching, and I think our combined savings are much more than they could be back home. We actually had a number of conversations recently about the idea of immigrating to his country (currently I visit as a tourist to go see my in-laws). So, we aren't just doing this for financial reasons either (we decided against it, for now). We are also open to countries where we would make less money, because if you are going to do this for a while, you may as well check out more of the world. Money helps, but if that was my only motivation, I would be a pretty miserable person. I have family members who have been like that their whole lives, and who are miserable.
If the price of housing in his country goes back to normal (realistic) levels, we may own a house someday. Hopefully for cash. Or maybe we'll be like my uncle...he's semi retired to a completely different country.
edited: screw editing for typos, I really should be doing something more productive....but so far this thread is amazingly civil! |
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mmstyle
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: wherever
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| morrison hotel: sounds like a good plan. Hope it works for ya. I'm definitely a permanent expat....my husband may be. |
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rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:49 am Post subject: Re: I have to agree with Gamecock on this one. |
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| Lonewolf wrote: |
| I came here because I wanted to. Not because I had to because there were no jobs. I ran my own company back in America. I got bored and wanted something new and different. Not everyone here is in it for the money. Some of us enjoy being in Asia. I lived in Asia many years ago, and I enjoyed it. Some of us actually like being here. Just for that one reason most of you new people want to label us as losers. I think not! I have it pretty nice in fact. I have learned a lot and met a lot of nice people here as well as a few new friends. I would consider family. I don't consider it losing when you are enjoying life and doing what you want to do. I have found most people who are complaining like this are the ones with empty apartments no furniture and no decorations on the walls. Just a TV or computer a bed and the least amount of things needed to survive. That's not living. |
Bravo! dead on correct (emphasis on bolded parts)
there is however, one problem with your "analysis". I have personally met many many "Western" people who now prefer to call Asia "home.
Many are/were highly paid professionals. Tons of guys from the financial sector. Some real estate/developer types. etc.
the overwhelming majority of them flock to and stay in Thailand. The ones that keep working in their disciplines concentrate in Hong Kong and Singapore. You'll find smaller pockets in places like Japan, Malaysia and these days in increasing amounts... China.
I don't think I've ever met anyone who actually wanted to come to and STAY in.................................... Korea.
I'm sure they exist, but they'd have to account for less than 2% of the entire "Asia" total. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
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| All Korea is is putting off the inevitable. This is a band-aid fix to all of your financial problems, it isn't a cure. |
We need a big banner on the top of every page on Dave's which loudly says,
"Not everyone is having the same experience in Korea as you are. Our work lives. Our home lives. Our financial lives. All different".
What I mean is, some of us might be directionless, lonely and depressed hagwon-slaves barely making 2 mill a month........but many of us have dramatically different lives here in Korea, which includes having financial security.
Lots of foreigners are living in Korea long-term.They're doing very well, and have sound financial plans for the future. |
Could not agree more with Eamo.
The broad brush is easy to use but does not paint an accurate picture of the diversity of situations for westerners in Korea. There are all types: 1-2 year short termers with no plans, long-term residents with no plans, long-term residents with plans, short termers with a plan that stay for a year or two, move on and do well.... |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
Really, Urban Myth? You are saving enough for retirement? On your 2.7 per month salary with no 401K? You want to live out your last days in Korea?
The lobster pot
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=83625
| Quote: |
| EFL is a capricious profession at best and most people are not savvy enough to build up sufficient retirement funds. Sure, you can save a lot of money depending on where you work. But, how many teachers do you know who can save the requisite one million American that most financial advisors recommend? Not too many, I bet. |
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Yes, financial advisors recommend you save one million for retirement. But three important things:
(1) you're supposed to do that through compound interest; savings begins small but begins early. Teaching in Korea is precisely conducive to such a plan, because even an entry ESLer should be netting 750,000-1,000,000 won/month.
(2) if the compound interest strategy doesn't work, its because the advice is outdated and based on the performance and expectancy of continued good performance of Western stock markets before the crash.
(3) financial advisers have the same incentives as your server at a restaurant; the more you save the more they make. The 15% savings rule may be too high (although not if you start late).
As TUM suggests, if you are responsible and have experience you should be able to earn more than 3 mil won/month in Korea. The challenge of Korea is putting up with the (decreasingly) xenophobic and (persistently) homogenous culture. |
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lowpo
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
Really, Urban Myth? You are saving enough for retirement? On your 2.7 per month salary with no 401K? You want to live out your last days in Korea?
The lobster pot
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=83625
| Quote: |
| EFL is a capricious profession at best and most people are not savvy enough to build up sufficient retirement funds. Sure, you can save a lot of money depending on where you work. But, how many teachers do you know who can save the requisite one million American that most financial advisors recommend? Not too many, I bet. |
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Yes, financial advisors recommend you save one million for retirement. But three important things:
(1) you're supposed to do that through compound interest; savings begins small but begins early. Teaching in Korea is precisely conducive to such a plan, because even an entry ESLer should be netting 750,000-1,000,000 won/month.
(2) if the compound interest strategy doesn't work, its because the advice is outdated and based on the performance and expectancy of continued good performance of Western stock markets before the crash.
(3) financial advisers have the same incentives as your server at a restaurant; the more you save the more they make. The 15% savings rule may be too high (although not if you start late).
As TUM suggests, if you are responsible and have experience you should be able to earn more than 3 mil won/month in Korea. The challenge of Korea is putting up with the (decreasingly) xenophobic and (persistently) homogenous culture. |
I put 15 percent of my income for 10 years into a growth fund when I was living back home. That came up to about 400.00 dollars a month. After ten years of saving I only had 45,000.00 in my growth fund when I took it out to move to Asia.
Since I moved to Asia about 8 years ago my wife and I has bought two apartments in China. One we are planning on keeping and the other we are going to sale when the time is right. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
Really, Urban Myth? You are saving enough for retirement? On your 2.7 per month salary with no 401K? You want to live out your last days in Korea?
The lobster pot
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=83625
| Quote: |
| EFL is a capricious profession at best and most people are not savvy enough to build up sufficient retirement funds. Sure, you can save a lot of money depending on where you work. But, how many teachers do you know who can save the requisite one million American that most financial advisors recommend? Not too many, I bet. |
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Many say you don't even need half of that
http://earlyretirementblog.com/how-much-would-you-really-need-to-retire-early/
400,000 dollars.
And THAT is much more achievable.
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How Much Is Enough?
Using the conservative rule-of-thumb that you shouldn�t withdraw more than 3% of your portfolio per year if you want your money to last indefinitely (perhaps more if you invest for income, but let�s keep things simple), you�d need approximately $600,000 to retire on $1,500 per month. If you use the more conventional 4% safe withdrawal rate, you�d only need about $400,000. Could you accumulate $400,000 in 10 or 15 years if you really wanted? I�m willing to bet you could. You�d have to cut out most luxuries and move to a cheaper part of town, but you could live pretty well and still save a tidy sum. |
(Bolding mine.) That's $1333 a month before taxes. Not a lot, but enough for a single person to live on and still afford a few simple luxuries like internet and cable TV. Particularly if you own your own house.
And that's without moving to a cheaper country like Thailand or the Philippines where it will go a lot further. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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The $1 Mil retirement fund is based on the US cost of living. If you retire somewhere cheaper you won't need so much. I'd think you need a house fully paid, and 500K in investments.
But Kenny is right in that you've got to save more than most teacher here are. $1K per month is not enough. You should be saving $2K per month at least, but preferably $3K. Under Dave's TOS I can't explain how, but use your imagination. You work hard here, and you can have a high standard of living. |
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Kennyftw
Joined: 08 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
Really, Urban Myth? You are saving enough for retirement? On your 2.7 per month salary with no 401K? You want to live out your last days in Korea?
The lobster pot
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=83625
| Quote: |
| EFL is a capricious profession at best and most people are not savvy enough to build up sufficient retirement funds. Sure, you can save a lot of money depending on where you work. But, how many teachers do you know who can save the requisite one million American that most financial advisors recommend? Not too many, I bet. |
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Many say you don't even need half of that
http://earlyretirementblog.com/how-much-would-you-really-need-to-retire-early/
400,000 dollars.
And THAT is much more achievable.
| Quote: |
How Much Is Enough?
Using the conservative rule-of-thumb that you shouldn�t withdraw more than 3% of your portfolio per year if you want your money to last indefinitely (perhaps more if you invest for income, but let�s keep things simple), you�d need approximately $600,000 to retire on $1,500 per month. If you use the more conventional 4% safe withdrawal rate, you�d only need about $400,000. Could you accumulate $400,000 in 10 or 15 years if you really wanted? I�m willing to bet you could. You�d have to cut out most luxuries and move to a cheaper part of town, but you could live pretty well and still save a tidy sum. |
Bolding mine. That's 1333 a month before taxes. Not a lot, but enough for a single person to live on and still afford a few simple luxuries like internet and cable TV. Particularly if you own your own house.
And that's without moving to a cheaper country like Thailand or the Philippines where it will go a lot further. |
So the basis is if you spend the money you make on interest--assuming from a bank CD of around 3-4% every month for expenses and living--then you'll be alright?
In theory, yes. But that's assuming you have a house already paid for and no big emergency pops up. I would think you need at least 700-800k realistically to retire. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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OK, $400,000 in addition to paying into Social Security (payments which are matched by one's employer) in the U.S. all those years. Guess what? Each year you lived overseas is another year not paying into S.S.
$400,000 divided by 30 is 13 thousand a year. You want to live on that? That would mean you live in a shoebox next to noisy neighbors. As an old person, that would suck.
Also, I highly doubt any ESL teachers are going to save up $400,000.
The main difference between jobs in Korea and jobs in the West is that, not only do Western jobs pay more, the benefits package, amounting one third the total compensation, should factor into a very significant part of the equation when making calculations for a decision. Key word: should. At first glance, savings in Korea may appear to be greater...but dig deeper and you will find that is not the case.
| Quote: |
| Could you accumulate $400,000 in 10 or 15 years if you really wanted? I�m willing to bet you could. |
Well, maybe you could in the U.S. But i don't think this kind of savings is realistic for Korea. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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Also, I'm somewhat suspicious of the $400,000 figure you found. It's not from a wholly objective or reputable source.
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| This blog has a financial relationship with many of the products we recommend. While we do get compensated if you purchase one of these products through a link on this site, we take care to only recommend products and services we believe in and/or use ourselves. |
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