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Looking in the mirror. Can you relate? ESLer goes home.
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rainism



Joined: 13 Apr 2011

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if I ever get old and to the point where I think about it very long and very hard.. and decide life truly sucks and the future sucks even more.

I hope I find true courage like the Korean or Japanese who find a nice tall cliff to launch themselves from.
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Stout



Joined: 28 May 2011

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's all grasping at straws in a rich man's game. $400,000? A million? Ain't nuthin' to the elite. But they're glad you're chasin' it, puts everyone right where they want'em...in a middle/upper-middle class tax bracket, the sweet spot for those in charge, rakes in tons of loot (all legally, of course Wink ).
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stout wrote:
It's all grasping at straws in a rich man's game. $400,000? A million? Ain't nuthin' to the elite. But they're glad you're chasin' it, puts everyone right where they want'em...in a middle/upper-middle class tax bracket, the sweet spot for those in charge, rakes in tons of loot (all legally, of course Wink ).


Laughing
the other option being?
Laughing
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brickabrack



Joined: 17 May 2010

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
Stout wrote:
It's all grasping at straws in a rich man's game. $400,000? A million? Ain't nuthin' to the elite. But they're glad you're chasin' it, puts everyone right where they want'em...in a middle/upper-middle class tax bracket, the sweet spot for those in charge, rakes in tons of loot (all legally, of course Wink ).


Laughing
the other option being?
Laughing



Tax evasion.
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Stout



Joined: 28 May 2011

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
Stout wrote:
It's all grasping at straws in a rich man's game. $400,000? A million? Ain't nuthin' to the elite. But they're glad you're chasin' it, puts everyone right where they want'em...in a middle/upper-middle class tax bracket, the sweet spot for those in charge, rakes in tons of loot (all legally, of course Wink ).


Laughing
the other option being?
Laughing


There are certain groups of people and communities who have found other options.

But on a basic level, simply not allowing the current mode of 'modern' civilization to get much traction in one's life. Opting out of the "gotta keep up with the Smiths" mentality. Not marrying someone who expects you to supply all the bells and whistles and be "respectable", i.e., if all of respectable society has a smart phone, then you are obligated to supply said commodity in order to remain "respectable" (naturally if there is something incredibly compelling about the gadget you get it on that basis). Also if respectable society dresses, behaves and speaks in a certain manner, you adopt those conventions and adapt accordingly as the trends fluctuate (or stick with a safe, classic conservative look and code of behavior through thick and thin).

There is a man down in South America, a fisherman, who found a croc on the verge of death with a gunshot wound to its head. Modern society would dictate you just let the damn thing expire, no need to hassle with something that'll poop, needs feeding, and may well get it into its mind to bite you. Yet the guy actually took it home, nursed it back to health, and released it, all at his own expense of time, effort, and cost of resources.

So's what d'ya know the croc finds its way back to the guy's place like a pooch and now the two yuck it up in front of tourists for laughs and a bit of cash.

Obviously you never know with a wild animal (or a "civilized" person for that matter), and the relationship could go south at any time. But in a place outside of the perimeters of "respectable", progressive, tech-savvy civilization, the fact that a guy felt the impulse to rehab a creature which is known to attack people, and is in fact a competitor for his livelihood, speaks volumes on how far removed we all are in caring for anything which isn't in our "best interests". Of course in the hard-knock world that we inhabit far from the fisherman's neck of the woods, that is the course of action taken by most.

But few people realize that this isn't necessarily the way things ought to or have to be. Far being the natural state of things, it is a system deliberately set up to make us all compete with each other, so that we all focus on how we can get ahead (of the other guy), thereby eliminating the thought that common people (which if you look at the amount of incredible wealth owned by like 1-2% of the population makes 99% of the population "common") could ever get together and stop funneling more wealth to the wealthy via their compliance with the nifty system that's been put in place.

A simple country guy performing hokey stunts with a grateful beast? Yeah, I know, bumpkin. But for now he's got a bit of magic which trumps being a minor cog in a machine.
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's all very well but it still doesn't solve the problem of what you're going to live on when you stop working.
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Stout



Joined: 28 May 2011

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edwardcatflap wrote:
That's all very well but it still doesn't solve the problem of what you're going to live on when you stop working.


As I said some people and communities have worked this out.

As for the broader society at-large, if people agreed to similarly put their heads together they'd be able to come up with some solutions. Humans been doing so for a few millenia.
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As I said some people and communities have worked this out.



What, you mean like living in a teepee and keeping a goat?
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wintermute



Joined: 01 Oct 2007

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
Stout wrote:
It's all grasping at straws in a rich man's game. $400,000? A million? Ain't nuthin' to the elite. But they're glad you're chasin' it, puts everyone right where they want'em...in a middle/upper-middle class tax bracket, the sweet spot for those in charge, rakes in tons of loot (all legally, of course Wink ).


Laughing
the other option being?
Laughing


Burn it down! Twisted Evil
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World Traveler



Joined: 29 May 2009

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Contrary to certain views expounded, at times, on this board, many recognize that working in EFL has some serious limitations depending on what you want to do or where you want to live long-term.


Quote:
I got on the wrong track and there is no turning back now. These Social Security threads bother me just a bit. Sometimes, I wake up and say to myself - "My GOD, what did I do?" and wonder what I was thinking at the time.

It kind of reminds me of the Grateful Dead song - "Wheel".

"The wheel is turning and you can't slow down. You can't look back and you can't slow down.....By the Grace of GOD." Check out the exact lyrics by yourself.

Basically, I hope another younger person doesn't make the same foolish mistakes I made. Get a real job OP, after a couple of years of fun & adventure. Sorry dedicated EFL teachers. I'm certainly not one of you, even if I've been doing this for 7 years.

Last semester I was voted one of the ten best "teachers" in the Foreign Language Department. #1 amongst the laowai. That and a token will get me on the bus.


Quote:
I look at it this way:

-Doing EFL after first doing something else -- as easy as falling off a log.

-Doing something else after first doing EFL -- not so easy.

When you're young, you think it's going to be relatively simple to go back later and get an MBA, law degree, etc. and get into something else. It's not. It can be cost-prohibitive under the best of circumstances. If you have kids or other family responsibilities, much harder. And once you have the degree, not everyone wants to hire a freshly graduated (insert whatever "serious" career you want to put here) who is 34 or 39 or 52 years old with no experience except EFL. You're older than the other "no experience" candidates, and the competitors your age have experience.

The rat race is a lot easier to get out of than to get into!


Quote:
I think that many EFL teachers have a huge amount of cognitive dissonance when they move here. If they enjoy their work, they say "I'm working here because I love it, not because the pay is good." If they hate their work, well, that creates a subconscious conflict, which can only lead to the good ol' "well the cost of living is so much lower here, I'm sure I couldn't save this much in the States."

I'm in Asia for non-economic reasons. Anyone who graduates from a (presumably expensive) four-year uni, buys a $1,500 plane ticket, and flies to Taiwan just for the money is not right in the head, in my opinion.

You can save more money in the States. Remember, the GDP per capita in the US is over $40,000 per year
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joelove



Joined: 12 May 2011

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Much of the above post by "stout" reminds me of something I read long ago, which has stuck with me. It goes something like this: ".. the whole structure of society is based on envy, and you are educated to be envious.."
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Stout



Joined: 28 May 2011

PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the following is doomy as hell, but there's also a bit of sense in it, and can be recognized by anyone with some anchorage in reality (taken from a very non-granola major Wall Street-oriented financial website)-

http://investmentwatchblog.com/paul-farrell-a-%E2%80%98no-growth%E2%80%99-boom-will-follow-2012-crash-a-collapse-that-may-well-eliminate-billions-of-people-from-the-planet/

Paul Farrell: A �No-Growth� Boom Will Follow 2012 Crash � A Collapse That May Well Eliminate Billions Of People From The Planet
August 23rd, 2011

By Paul B. Farrell, MarketWatch

SAN LUIS OBISPO, Calif. (MarketWatch) � There is a global economic boom coming, but unfortunately, that boom comes only after a systemic collapse of the global economy, markets and capitalism � a collapse that may well eliminate billions of people from the planet. Shocking? Cruel? Brutal? Yes.

But folks, that is the coded message in many recent warnings from environmental economists who finally realize that nothing will wake up the public. Nothing but a catastrophic system failure. Only then, a path to reform, recovery, a new boom.

But wait, you ask: If the consequences are worse than an asteroid slamming into Earth, why don�t we just plan ahead? Avoid the Black Swan? Why wait for some �creative destruction� to wipe out capitalism, reduce the global population to 5 billion? Why? Because our human genes are not good at planning ahead for catastrophes. Our brains are designed for fight-or-flight. Otherwise we procrastinate. We respond best when our backs are against the wall. Then we rally the troops, go to war, so to speak.

Until we reach that point, we focus on everyday stuff, like jobs, the kids, short-term buy-sells and ideological stuff like today�s anti-science, anti-intellectual political rhetoric. Free-market capitalism. Don�t tread on me. Stuff like that keeps us in denial about the future. No, we don�t plan, don�t act until a crisis. Not till the asteroid is about to hit. Even then, we pray for divine intervention to rescue us. Or a Churchill to emerge, take charge of the impossible challenge, get people energized and focused on a common cause. Then we�ll charge ahead, solve the problem. Until then, our brains can only think short-term.

Massive denial of global catastrophe dead ahead
And yet, the facts about the coming catastrophe are so obvious. Just apply a little grade-school math and economic common sense: Our planet�s natural resources can reasonably support about 5 billion people. That�s a fact. Another: Today we have 7 billion. That�s a problem, 2 billion too many. We�re consuming commodities and natural resources at a rate of 1.5 Earths, according to estimates by the Global Footprint Network of scientists and economists.

Flash forward: This scenario gets scarier than a horror film, very fast. United Nations demographers warn the Earth�s population will reach 10 billion in just one generation, around 2050. That�s two times the 5 billion the Earth can reasonably support. But the equation gets even scarier: Those 10 billion people will demand lifestyle improvements. That increases their consumption of scarce resources by 300% per person. Bottom line: 10 billion people will be consuming the equivalent of six Earths. Very bad news.

�You really do have to wonder whether a few years from now we�ll look back at the first decade of the 21st century,� writes Thomas Friedman, a New York Times columnist and author of �Hot, Flat, Crowded,� �when food prices spiked, energy prices soared, world population surged, tornados plowed through cities, floods and droughts set records, populations were displaced and governments were threatened by the confluence of it all � and ask ourselves: What were we thinking? How did we not panic when the evidence was so obvious that we�d crossed some growth/climate/natural-resource/population redlines all at once?�

Friedman quotes Paul Gilding, the veteran Australian environmentalist-entrepreneur, who described this moment in a new book called �The Great Disruption: Why the Climate Crisis Will Bring On the End of Shopping and the Birth of a New World.�

�The only answer can be denial,� says Gilding. �When you are surrounded by something so big that requires you to change everything about the way you think and see the world, then denial is the natural response. But the longer we wait, the bigger the response required.�

Forget global warming � it�s too late
Gilding�s �Great Disruption� is an eye-opener. But have no illusions that his or any book will be the wake-up call that will force us to plan ahead for a catastrophe. A former chief executive of Greenpeace, he admits screaming for 30 years to get the public�s attention. He now confesses that his efforts had little impact. Why? The world is too deep in denial.

So, finally, he gave up. Nothing was working: �We tried. We failed.� Today his message is simple and blunt: �It�s time to stop worrying about climate change. Instead we need to brace for impact.� Yes, an economic asteroid is closing fast.

What will trigger �The Crash� he sees coming? �If you grow an economy or any system up against its limits, it then stops growing and either changes form or breaks down � As our system hits its limits, the following pressures will combine, in varied and unpredictable ways, to trigger a system breakdown and a major economic crisis (or series of smaller crises) that will see us slide into a sustained economic downturn and a global emergency lasting decades.�

As Gilding sees it, the coming crash is �not a doom and gloom prediction, but an inevitable physical reality.� And yet, paradoxically, while the faint-hearted panic, this �perfect storm� also signals sell and buy opportunities for savvy investors.

Shocks. �A series of ecological, social and economic shocks driven by climate change, particularly melting polar regions, extreme weather events�changes to agricultural output�severe economic stresses�deep concern [among] the public and the global elites�government intervention� a sense of global crisis.�
Food. �Increasing demand and lower agricultural output driven by climate change �sustained increases in food prices�economic and geopolitical instability and tension�developing countries blaming the West for causing climate change.�
Water. �A deeply degraded global ecosystem will further reduce the capacity of key ecosystem services, water, fisheries and agricultural land � impact food and water supply � political stability � global security.�
Energy. �Rapid increases in oil prices as peak oil is breached. �The trend will be clear� enormous, system-wide economic and political pressure�great conflict.�
Surprises. �For example, a serious global terrorist attack wiping out a major city�or a pandemic shutting down global travel�shocks upon shocks upon shocks.�
Fear. �As this unfolds, our deeply intertwined and complex global financial market, prone to panic, driven by fear and uncertainty, will suddenly wake up to the long-term implications of all of this�Perhaps driven by a series of major corporate collapses or national economic crises, they will then simply re-price risk in global share markets�This will lead to a dramatic drop in global share markets and a tightening of capital supply.� Markets and economies will crash.
Oddly, in all this, Gilding is an eternal optimist. He believes that mankind will follow this �Great Disruption� with a period of great cooperation where all nations of the world will come together to save the planet. What�s unspoken, however, is how this great disruption will stop population from growing to 10 billion. And even more significantly: How the crash will scale Earth�s existing population of 7 billion back to a sustainable 5 billion. Yet, that must happen to make the �new equation� work. Unfortunately, what�s unspoken will probably include new global wars, pandemics, famines, starvation and other cataclysmic events, all before the boom.
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Zulethe



Joined: 04 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kennyftw wrote:
I watched the video. But doesn't he say that he doesn't have a degree? Or does he not have a degree in Education? I'm thinking the former. And if that's the case, that's 90% of the reason why he doesn't have a better job in the States. He should have parked his butt right down there in China and stayed there.

But yes, I can relate to what he was saying about being sick of the "backwardness" of the culture, the language, the relationships, etc., but at some point, you DO have to move back home (unless you get married.)

I was in a similar situation before coming to Korea. I'm a licensed teacher back home and my father kept saying go apply, go apply! I did, put so did 300 other teachers in the area. To make matters worse, I have a degree in English and Social Studies, which are a dime a dozen. So plain and simple, the deal was if I didn't "know" someone that could get me into the doors, I wasn't going in. I was going up against teachers who had more experience than I did coming out of college, seniority, in-house teachers they could shuffle around, and better resumes. How could I compete and beat out 300 other candidates? By a fancy, off-white colored, well-put together resume?

Hell NO!

Let this be a lesson to all you thinking about going into Education. DON'T!
It is probably one of the most saturated fields in America. You aren't going to find work, and that's why 80% of teachers are doing office work or something not related to teaching. You'd be lucky to get called once a month for substituting.

If I had to do it all over again, I would have been a nurse. Now that's job security with the baby boomers retiring and all.

So, as it turned out, I had to do something QUICK! My bills were over my head, I couldn't find work so I had to take anything, which at the time I was DISH WASHING! Yeah, a college graduate dish washing at an old folks home. Pathetic.
Then the creditors' calls started to pile in. And my credit card minimum payments were nearing 900 dollars. I had to let my health insurance run out because I couldn't afford it. That was it! I get the F out of dodge.
I almost joined the Army and the Navy out of desperation for a steady income, but they wouldn't let me in.

I was desperate.

But now, I'm here. It's been 1 year and 9 months. Yes, I have money, but I don't have a 401K, no savings, and no idea what I'm going to do to retire. Korea is a mirage of financial security. You think you are secure because, hey, you can afford to go out every night, the bills are paid, you have cash in the bank, a roof over your head, BUT you are getting older each year. And there comes a point when you do get TOO "old" to teach in Korea.

Then what?

You don't have a retirement fund, and you need work when you turn 45-50 years old.

All Korea is is putting off the inevitable. This is a band-aid fix to all of your financial problems, it isn't a cure.

I would give anything to be able to have a teaching job back home earning a fantastic income with job security and a 401K. But that is getting pushed out of the realm of possibility with each passing year.

I think the mind of the ESLer is childish and sort of naive. We know the sh&* will hit the fan one day, but, like a kid, we push it out of our mind and try to forget about it. It's like death. We know it's going to happen one day, we know it's going to suck, but do we sit here and think about it?
Nope. We push it out of our minds and forget about. But for those who think about their financial future ponder these things. And to think Korea will always be there for you, because you were there for it, don't kid yourself. You're going to have to face reality a short time from now.

Then what are you going to do?


You make excellent points. The lifers here are going to be in for a big wake-up call when then realize they haven't paid in enough into social security in order to qualify for $ as well as medicare (US).

They better save at least a few million dollars to pay for all of their health care expenses as well as to have money for when they retire.

Over a life time these benefits are worth way more money than any English teacher could hope to save in 30 years of teaching.

I'm lucky, I've got military retirement and medical benefits for life through the VA. This is an anachronistic post though....in 20 years you'll be seeing a lot more of the "I made so much money in Korea that I thought I was set....I never considered my elderly years...
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Carbon



Joined: 28 Jan 2011

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zulethe wrote:
Kennyftw wrote:
I watched the video. But doesn't he say that he doesn't have a degree? Or does he not have a degree in Education? I'm thinking the former. And if that's the case, that's 90% of the reason why he doesn't have a better job in the States. He should have parked his butt right down there in China and stayed there.

But yes, I can relate to what he was saying about being sick of the "backwardness" of the culture, the language, the relationships, etc., but at some point, you DO have to move back home (unless you get married.)

I was in a similar situation before coming to Korea. I'm a licensed teacher back home and my father kept saying go apply, go apply! I did, put so did 300 other teachers in the area. To make matters worse, I have a degree in English and Social Studies, which are a dime a dozen. So plain and simple, the deal was if I didn't "know" someone that could get me into the doors, I wasn't going in. I was going up against teachers who had more experience than I did coming out of college, seniority, in-house teachers they could shuffle around, and better resumes. How could I compete and beat out 300 other candidates? By a fancy, off-white colored, well-put together resume?

Hell NO!

Let this be a lesson to all you thinking about going into Education. DON'T!
It is probably one of the most saturated fields in America. You aren't going to find work, and that's why 80% of teachers are doing office work or something not related to teaching. You'd be lucky to get called once a month for substituting.

If I had to do it all over again, I would have been a nurse. Now that's job security with the baby boomers retiring and all.

So, as it turned out, I had to do something QUICK! My bills were over my head, I couldn't find work so I had to take anything, which at the time I was DISH WASHING! Yeah, a college graduate dish washing at an old folks home. Pathetic.
Then the creditors' calls started to pile in. And my credit card minimum payments were nearing 900 dollars. I had to let my health insurance run out because I couldn't afford it. That was it! I get the F out of dodge.
I almost joined the Army and the Navy out of desperation for a steady income, but they wouldn't let me in.

I was desperate.

But now, I'm here. It's been 1 year and 9 months. Yes, I have money, but I don't have a 401K, no savings, and no idea what I'm going to do to retire. Korea is a mirage of financial security. You think you are secure because, hey, you can afford to go out every night, the bills are paid, you have cash in the bank, a roof over your head, BUT you are getting older each year. And there comes a point when you do get TOO "old" to teach in Korea.

Then what?

You don't have a retirement fund, and you need work when you turn 45-50 years old.

All Korea is is putting off the inevitable. This is a band-aid fix to all of your financial problems, it isn't a cure.

I would give anything to be able to have a teaching job back home earning a fantastic income with job security and a 401K. But that is getting pushed out of the realm of possibility with each passing year.

I think the mind of the ESLer is childish and sort of naive. We know the sh&* will hit the fan one day, but, like a kid, we push it out of our mind and try to forget about it. It's like death. We know it's going to happen one day, we know it's going to suck, but do we sit here and think about it?
Nope. We push it out of our minds and forget about. But for those who think about their financial future ponder these things. And to think Korea will always be there for you, because you were there for it, don't kid yourself. You're going to have to face reality a short time from now.

Then what are you going to do?


You make excellent points. The lifers here are going to be in for a big wake-up call when then realize they haven't paid in enough into social security in order to qualify for $ as well as medicare (US).

They better save at least a few million dollars to pay for all of their health care expenses as well as to have money for when they retire.

Over a life time these benefits are worth way more money than any English teacher could hope to save in 30 years of teaching.

I'm lucky, I've got military retirement and medical benefits for life through the VA. This is an anachronistic post though....in 20 years you'll be seeing a lot more of the "I made so much money in Korea that I thought I was set....I never considered my elderly years...


Well, not all "lifers" will fit into that puzzle. Those who are married and whose partner also works; a combination of wages can be quite substantial. A high level of personal development is necessary for the EFL teacher to be on top, regardless of age. Many seem scared of being 45 or 50 in the EFL profession, but the truth can be quite different. There are indeed glass ceilings in Korea, but to reach them takes a bit of work. It is possible to reach many of them; a good job (professional development, gain experience), get a more flexible visa (the F2 via points) and intergrate as best you can. Of course, if you don't like it here or find it otherwise unbearable, then the world awaits. For some however, things are good. I have never met a successful foreigner here who didn't somehow deserve and work hard for what they are enjoying.

I am not sure why the idea of *successful foreigners always draws some ire.

*happy, doing well financially, well-integrated, etc.
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psymist



Joined: 22 May 2009

PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last year, I was going home and was not sure if I would be back. When I was filling out the paperwork to get the pension, I asked if there were other options. The man told me that I could transfer my pension into Social Security if I had 18 months of pension collected and left for a job in America. If that's the case, then it might be a good option for those who are worried about their Social Security.

I'm not sure if I will be a lifer or if I will go back home after getting married. I'd really like to know how people who plan on staying in Korea are developing long-term financial plans. Some people have mentioned investing in stocks or buying houses. Are those the only (or best) ways available?
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