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A Korean's viewpoint
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nate1983



Joined: 30 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: A Korean's viewpoint Reply with quote

ajosshi wrote:
nate1983 wrote:
PeteJB wrote:
Foreign influence has had a history of not benefiting Korea.


Then why would she travel thousands of miles and spend a boatload of money to be influenced by foreign education?

And talking about "her country" giving Americans jobs? At least that's the free market at work. Presumably, she is not working in my country, but reaping the benefits of its infrastructure and education system, both heavily supported by US taxpayer dollars.

Not getting any thing for free. Foreign students pay full price. Their fees partly offset fees charged to residents. Also, the "infrastructure" is paid by taxed spending. Foreigners spend just like any other citizen. They don't get jack for free.


I'm guessing you're not American, because then you would know that U.S. education, even at nominally "private" schools, is heavily supported through state and federal tax money. And whose taxes are paying for the nice clean streets and policemen to keep her safe at night? Not hers. And you could argue that her place in that school is taking away a spot for us to educate one of our own.

I don't have any issue with our government using its money to support our foreign guests - what I don't like is the double standard this girl applies, as in it's okay for her to come over here and study in these nice schools, but she then criticizes people actually making a contribution to Korean society are "relying on her country."

Quote:

[color=green]The girl is 17. The U.S. Army private is 21.


I had read somewhere the girl was 18 or, and I remembered the guy was 20 or 21. Perhaps the girl's Korean age was given, as I first read a Korean article about it - if you say she was 17, I'll take your word for it, and I'll admit it makes it more serious.
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Weigookin74



Joined: 26 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: A Korean's viewpoint Reply with quote

ajosshi wrote:
nate1983 wrote:
PeteJB wrote:
Foreign influence has had a history of not benefiting Korea.


Then why would she travel thousands of miles and spend a boatload of money to be influenced by foreign education?

And talking about "her country" giving Americans jobs? At least that's the free market at work. Presumably, she is not working in my country, but reaping the benefits of its infrastructure and education system, both heavily supported by US taxpayer dollars.

Not getting any thing for free. Foreign students pay full price. Their fees partly offset fees charged to residents. Also, the "infrastructure" is paid by taxed spending. Foreigners spend just like any other citizen. They don't get jack for free.

Furthermore, she twists her words very neatly - the "young girl" and "US soldier" from what I hear were only a year or two apart in age, and while I'm certainly neither condoning nor defending his malfeasance, I don't see how she's trying to make it out as some abomination that Korean college guys never try with similar-aged girls.

The girl is 17. The U.S. Army private is 21.

The U.S. Army private has admitted to the following:

1. Stalking females
2. Checked for female shoes before breaking in
3. Used an instrument to break in
4. Holding the female against her will
5. Beating the girl with the instrument used to break in with (causing severe lacerations)
6. Raping her for 4 hours
7. Claimed he was too drunk to remember what happened

Based on the facts, I don't see any bias.


She sounds like some typical college student who has a sudden epiphany that she's figured out all that's wrong with the world - only now, thanks to this blogging phenomenon, she exposes others to her drivel.

Those are merely her opinions. I'd say several of them are valid.


Let me also add, there is a lot of rape here of college girls. The Korean guys who do it, rarely get prosecuted. Korean guys tell the girls, I'm your senior, you have to drink more and more. I'm your senior professor, you must have coffee with me, etc. You get the idea. I have a Korean speaking foriegn friend who works high up in the university world here (not an English teacher) who has filled me in some of this stuff.

What the soldier did was wrong, but would a Korean be equally prosecuted? Many a Korean female are scared of rape here at night where it's considered ok and cops don't always take it seriously. How many ajossis used the "drunk" excuse. It's an outrage if a Western person does it, but not for Koreans?

I've heard stories of female high school students having sex with their male teachers and it's the girl who has to change schools. Male teacher doesn't really get punished. Again, my Korean speaking foriegn friend who knows many people, including many Korean friends has filled me in on this stuff. But if a foriegner did that, well, our ^&&** would be cut off and thrown into the East sea.
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fermentation



Joined: 22 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yay, an argument that's interesting to me.

Steelrails wrote:
South Korean military is "advanced".
Are we sure about this? From the guys that I've talked to that recently finished their service, "advanced" would not be the word they'd use to describe it.


I wouldn't say lightyears ahead like Steelrails but compared to the NK, definitely advanced. Especially the Air Force. Compared to the US, no, but thank god the US is on our side. Our tanks and self-propelled artillery have automated reloading systems and laser range finders, which is rare in NK equipment. ROK Army standard K1A1 can accurately hit targets at 1-2km, while moving. Older tanks can't do that. Our F15Ks are much, much more advanced than anything in the NKAF's arsenal. ROK Army units have radios down to the squad level (even to teams in SO units) but even regular NKA squads don't. Which means squads have to run to eachother to communicate. yeah, I think we're more advanced than the NK.

Quote:
North Korea equipment is antiquated.
A gun is a gun. If it shoots, it can kill. They may not have precision bombing, but they've proven time and time again that their 'antiquated weapons' are able to take on "newer" foes. Need I post links to recent fights?


Which fights are referring to? If you're referring to the recent insurgency in Afghanistan, then you're comparing the wrong war to Korea. Weapon systems and tactics apply to the situation at hand. Insurgents and guerilla warfare have worked against more advanced foes but in the case of Korea, we're talking about a full-scare conventional war, which isn't comparable at all to Afghanistan. It'll be more comparable to the Invasion of Iraq in 2003, in which coalition forces completely defeated the larger Iraqi military in 12 days in a conventional war.

Quote:
South Korean forces are well/better trained.
Um... seriously??


Against North Korea, yes. I've said regarding my military experience that ROK Army training is seriously lacking but this is compared to the US military or other nations that regularly send troops to combat. I don't think the average ROK conscript is ready for combat but the same goes for the average NK conscript. We're both conscripts but at least we're better fed, and we actually get to train once in while. But a comparison of figher pilots will give you a better picture: the average ROKAF pilot gets 500 hours of flight per year. The average NKAF pilot gets four due to the lack of fuel.[/quote]
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Adventurer



Joined: 28 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: A Korean's viewpoint Reply with quote

nate1983 wrote:
PeteJB wrote:
Foreign influence has had a history of not benefiting Korea.


Then why would she travel thousands of miles and spend a boatload of money to be influenced by foreign education?

And talking about "her country" giving Americans jobs? At least that's the free market at work. Presumably, she is not working in my country, but reaping the benefits of its infrastructure and education system, both heavily supported by US taxpayer dollars.

Furthermore, she twists her words very neatly - the "young girl" and "US soldier" from what I hear were only a year or two apart in age, and while I'm certainly neither condoning nor defending his malfeasance, I don't see how she's trying to make it out as some abomination that Korean college guys never try with similar-aged girls.

She sounds like some typical college student who has a sudden epiphany that she's figured out all that's wrong with the world - only now, thanks to this blogging phenomenon, she exposes others to her drivel.



South Korea does have some decent hard-ware. However, assuming that the North Korean military doesn't have enough committed soldiers for a campaign against the South is speculation. We don't really know that. It's possible. The military is well taken care of in the North.

The United States didn't have generosity in mind when it saved South Korea from North Korea, either. The South Korean government hasn't asked the U.S. to stay because it simply loves Americans. The South Korean government doesn't feel it can afford a war with the North and doesn't want to risk it. Even if by some chance, the South could win, it wouldn't be without sustaining serious damage. That's something she is not considering. Is the going to fight and pay for all the damage that will run into the billions? No.

She doesn't accept the American guy's criticism of Korea at all, but she is benefiting from an American institution subsidized by American dollars, and we came here for the jobs. I agree with the point that if you're doing well financially here and have been treated well, over all, you should have some positive views of Korea. We're not immigrants for the most part trying to be naturalized. We're not university students. I think also most of us say something positive about Korea, certainly I don't think the Korean press is professional when it comes to how it treats foreigners.

She forgets that the US, including the army, helped build Korea. I don't really want the army to stay, but did she forget who sunk the Cheonan?
It's not a joke.

I agree that more of those soldiers need to be controlled. Some of them do behave irresponsibly. I think more and more youths in the youths are too quick to engage in problematic behavior in the US.

Her defense of the existence of hostility towards other cultures in Korea by some Koreans entails being an apologist. Many people can find excuses for being racists including Russians. Russia was invaded by France and Germany,and had to fight Finland and Sweden.
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HELICIS



Joined: 15 Sep 2011
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, the USA should pull out! Korea was pretty much built up on the shoulders of the Americans. But they piss on the USA every chance they get. The USA should pull out and let them handle their own problems. I wonder how long it would take for China to totally take over? Weeks or months?

To hell with these people!
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highstreet



Joined: 13 Nov 2010

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: A Korean's viewpoint Reply with quote

Weigookin74 wrote:
ajosshi wrote:
nate1983 wrote:
PeteJB wrote:
Foreign influence has had a history of not benefiting Korea.


Then why would she travel thousands of miles and spend a boatload of money to be influenced by foreign education?

And talking about "her country" giving Americans jobs? At least that's the free market at work. Presumably, she is not working in my country, but reaping the benefits of its infrastructure and education system, both heavily supported by US taxpayer dollars.

Not getting any thing for free. Foreign students pay full price. Their fees partly offset fees charged to residents. Also, the "infrastructure" is paid by taxed spending. Foreigners spend just like any other citizen. They don't get jack for free.

Furthermore, she twists her words very neatly - the "young girl" and "US soldier" from what I hear were only a year or two apart in age, and while I'm certainly neither condoning nor defending his malfeasance, I don't see how she's trying to make it out as some abomination that Korean college guys never try with similar-aged girls.

The girl is 17. The U.S. Army private is 21.

The U.S. Army private has admitted to the following:

1. Stalking females
2. Checked for female shoes before breaking in
3. Used an instrument to break in
4. Holding the female against her will
5. Beating the girl with the instrument used to break in with (causing severe lacerations)
6. Raping her for 4 hours
7. Claimed he was too drunk to remember what happened

Based on the facts, I don't see any bias.


She sounds like some typical college student who has a sudden epiphany that she's figured out all that's wrong with the world - only now, thanks to this blogging phenomenon, she exposes others to her drivel.

Those are merely her opinions. I'd say several of them are valid.


Let me also add, there is a lot of rape here of college girls. The Korean guys who do it, rarely get prosecuted. Korean guys tell the girls, I'm your senior, you have to drink more and more. I'm your senior professor, you must have coffee with me, etc. You get the idea. I have a Korean speaking foriegn friend who works high up in the university world here (not an English teacher) who has filled me in some of this stuff.

What the soldier did was wrong, but would a Korean be equally prosecuted? Many a Korean female are scared of rape here at night where it's considered ok and cops don't always take it seriously. How many ajossis used the "drunk" excuse. It's an outrage if a Western person does it, but not for Koreans?

I've heard stories of female high school students having sex with their male teachers and it's the girl who has to change schools. Male teacher doesn't really get punished. Again, my Korean speaking foriegn friend who knows many people, including many Korean friends has filled me in on this stuff. But if a foriegner did that, well, our ^&&** would be cut off and thrown into the East sea.


Doesn't matter that Korean guys also do it. He's a US soldier in a foreign country. That's why it's such a big deal.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HELICIS wrote:
I agree, the USA should pull out! Korea was pretty much built up on the shoulders of the Americans. But they piss on the USA every chance they get. The USA should pull out and let them handle their own problems. I wonder how long it would take for China to totally take over? Weeks or months?

To hell with these people!


Right, because if the U.S. pulled out, the Chinese would invade.... Rolling Eyes

At least get a clue about the current international diplomatic and political climate before you make asinine assertions like this.

This isn't the year 1600 or even 1939. It's 2011. Stop letting fantasies based on video games drive your opinion making.
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chrisinkorea2011



Joined: 16 Jan 2011

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know ive read a lot of perspectives on this issue, and im sure it will turn into an all out war in time lol. But i gotta say i take into consideration what my father (22 years and retired SF army guy) and my mother (born and raised in korea) have said to me about korea. And i have to say i agree with them both. The gist of what they say is this... (not 100% quoted word for word)

That if US forces ever completely pulled out of S.korea, then it would be only a matter of time before someone else tried to step in and take it over. Whether it would be NK (for land, food, resources) or china (economic resources) or some other country. Regardless of what people say, DO YOUR homework. The UN (the US MADE A LARGE PART) stepped in and helped the country from being taken over. And if you look at the war south korea needed all the help they could get. If they pulled out now someone else would try and step in. For those who think korea will survive, perhaps that could happen, but for how long?

This girl headed to the states and then posts a mainly one sided argument. While some of her points are good, for the most part she is biased in her arguments and looks simply from her point of view.

And for the record korea's military is more advanced that NK (obviously) however not America's army. And if you dont believe that, i implore you to join the military in the US and see for yourself.

And let the counterarguments commence! lol
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Leon



Joined: 31 May 2010

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chrisinkorea2011 wrote:
You know ive read a lot of perspectives on this issue, and im sure it will turn into an all out war in time lol. But i gotta say i take into consideration what my father (22 years and retired SF army guy) and my mother (born and raised in korea) have said to me about korea. And i have to say i agree with them both. The gist of what they say is this... (not 100% quoted word for word)

That if US forces ever completely pulled out of S.korea, then it would be only a matter of time before someone else tried to step in and take it over. Whether it would be NK (for land, food, resources) or china (economic resources) or some other country. Regardless of what people say, DO YOUR homework. The UN (the US MADE A LARGE PART) stepped in and helped the country from being taken over. And if you look at the war south korea needed all the help they could get. If they pulled out now someone else would try and step in. For those who think korea will survive, perhaps that could happen, but for how long?

This girl headed to the states and then posts a mainly one sided argument. While some of her points are good, for the most part she is biased in her arguments and looks simply from her point of view.

And for the record korea's military is more advanced that NK (obviously) however not America's army. And if you dont believe that, i implore you to join the military in the US and see for yourself.

And let the counterarguments commence! lol


Just because the United States pulls out of a country doesn't mean that they don't have security agreements with that country. The U.S. Army can be a deterent with out actually being there. We can project force pretty quickly. All the doomsday scenarios about if we leave ignore this basic aspect. I think everyone here is getting a bit too worked up over something I doubt this girl put that much thought into.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chrisinkorea2011 wrote:
You know ive read a lot of perspectives on this issue, and im sure it will turn into an all out war in time lol. But i gotta say i take into consideration what my father (22 years and retired SF army guy) and my mother (born and raised in korea) have said to me about korea. And i have to say i agree with them both. The gist of what they say is this... (not 100% quoted word for word)

That if US forces ever completely pulled out of S.korea, then it would be only a matter of time before someone else tried to step in and take it over. Whether it would be NK (for land, food, resources) or china (economic resources) or some other country. Regardless of what people say, DO YOUR homework. The UN (the US MADE A LARGE PART) stepped in and helped the country from being taken over. And if you look at the war south korea needed all the help they could get. If they pulled out now someone else would try and step in. For those who think korea will survive, perhaps that could happen, but for how long?

This girl headed to the states and then posts a mainly one sided argument. While some of her points are good, for the most part she is biased in her arguments and looks simply from her point of view.

And for the record korea's military is more advanced that NK (obviously) however not America's army. And if you dont believe that, i implore you to join the military in the US and see for yourself.

And let the counterarguments commence! lol


No one claimed it was more advanced than the U.S. Army, that's laughable.

And remember the Korean Army has a core of combat experienced senior officers left over from the Vietnam-era, the Norks lack that.

As for someone stepping in and taking over, again this is not the 1950s. We're in a completely different economic and political situation. The closest thing that might happen is some sort of Falklands bruhaha.

Do you really believe that China or Russia would invade Korea in this day and age? Oh please. Just because something is possible militarily, doesn't mean it will happen for political/diplomatic/economic reasons.

If China were to invade S.Korea it would be throwing away everything that it has worked for over the last 20 years in developing economically. The Renminbi would be worthless and its exports would evaporate.

Seriously folks, it ain't the Cold War or Command & Conquer, or Castle Risk or whatever game/movie you're basing your "China Conquers the World" scenario off of...It's the 21st global economic technological age.
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chrisinkorea2011



Joined: 16 Jan 2011

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leon wrote:
chrisinkorea2011 wrote:
You know ive read a lot of perspectives on this issue, and im sure it will turn into an all out war in time lol. But i gotta say i take into consideration what my father (22 years and retired SF army guy) and my mother (born and raised in korea) have said to me about korea. And i have to say i agree with them both. The gist of what they say is this... (not 100% quoted word for word)

That if US forces ever completely pulled out of S.korea, then it would be only a matter of time before someone else tried to step in and take it over. Whether it would be NK (for land, food, resources) or china (economic resources) or some other country. Regardless of what people say, DO YOUR homework. The UN (the US MADE A LARGE PART) stepped in and helped the country from being taken over. And if you look at the war south korea needed all the help they could get. If they pulled out now someone else would try and step in. For those who think korea will survive, perhaps that could happen, but for how long?

This girl headed to the states and then posts a mainly one sided argument. While some of her points are good, for the most part she is biased in her arguments and looks simply from her point of view.

And for the record korea's military is more advanced that NK (obviously) however not America's army. And if you dont believe that, i implore you to join the military in the US and see for yourself.

And let the counterarguments commence! lol


Just because the United States pulls out of a country doesn't mean that they don't have security agreements with that country. The U.S. Army can be a deterent with out actually being there. We can project force pretty quickly. All the doomsday scenarios about if we leave ignore this basic aspect. I think everyone here is getting a bit too worked up over something I doubt this girl put that much thought into.


I agree with this as well, actually funny thing my korean gf just said "Even if the USA leaves and then we get into trouble, we know the USA will come and help us."

that about made my day
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chrisinkorea2011



Joined: 16 Jan 2011

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
chrisinkorea2011 wrote:
You know ive read a lot of perspectives on this issue, and im sure it will turn into an all out war in time lol. But i gotta say i take into consideration what my father (22 years and retired SF army guy) and my mother (born and raised in korea) have said to me about korea. And i have to say i agree with them both. The gist of what they say is this... (not 100% quoted word for word)

That if US forces ever completely pulled out of S.korea, then it would be only a matter of time before someone else tried to step in and take it over. Whether it would be NK (for land, food, resources) or china (economic resources) or some other country. Regardless of what people say, DO YOUR homework. The UN (the US MADE A LARGE PART) stepped in and helped the country from being taken over. And if you look at the war south korea needed all the help they could get. If they pulled out now someone else would try and step in. For those who think korea will survive, perhaps that could happen, but for how long?

This girl headed to the states and then posts a mainly one sided argument. While some of her points are good, for the most part she is biased in her arguments and looks simply from her point of view.

And for the record korea's military is more advanced that NK (obviously) however not America's army. And if you dont believe that, i implore you to join the military in the US and see for yourself.

And let the counterarguments commence! lol


No one claimed it was more advanced than the U.S. Army, that's laughable.

And remember the Korean Army has a core of combat experienced senior officers left over from the Vietnam-era, the Norks lack that.

As for someone stepping in and taking over, again this is not the 1950s. We're in a completely different economic and political situation. The closest thing that might happen is some sort of Falklands bruhaha.

Do you really believe that China or Russia would invade Korea in this day and age? Oh please. Just because something is possible militarily, doesn't mean it will happen for political/diplomatic/economic reasons.

If China were to invade S.Korea it would be throwing away everything that it has worked for over the last 20 years in developing economically. The Renminbi would be worthless and its exports would evaporate.

Seriously folks, it ain't the Cold War or Command & Conquer, or Castle Risk or whatever game/movie you're basing your "China Conquers the World" scenario off of...It's the 21st global economic technological age.


Actually that was in response to what someone said about the military advancements etc.

I do believe that someone eventually would try to step in, 21st century or not. I think some people do make bad choices like that, not saying it would happen right away however, im sure the thought has been there numerous times. as for russia, well they are WAY out of it haha
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aussieb



Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Location: Brisbane,Australia

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Norks do have a couple of nukes ... more than makes up for other antiquated weaponry.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aussieb wrote:
The Norks do have a couple of nukes ... more than makes up for other antiquated weaponry.


But they don't have a delivery system. Nukes are worthless unless you can get them over to the enemy side. All they have are bombers and any bombers taking off, would be detected and shot down before it reaches the border.
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Squire



Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do believe it's time for US troops to pull out of Korea. If they aren't going to go in and topple KJI they may aswell not be here.
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