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Forgive Student Debt, Fight the Recession
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:29 am    Post subject: Forgive Student Debt, Fight the Recession Reply with quote

Here's an interesting idea that would have an immediately stimulative effect on demand:

As someone who has student loan debt myself, it occurred to me that if I were suddenly relieved of my obligation to repay the approximately $500 in student loan payments that I dutifully make each and every month without fail, Iíd have an extra $500 per month, every month, to spend on ailing sectors of the economy. Think of it as a trickle-up approach to economic stimulus.

My point in writing the essay wasnít to say that I didnít want to pay back what I had borrowed. Rather, it was to say that if we truly wanted to stimulate economic growth, I had a better, more efficient way of accomplishing that goal.


http://www.salon.com/2011/11/04/forgive_student_debt_fight_the_recession/

There are some interesting ideas in the article.

I don't think I could back this idea unless each person who benefited also had to sign in blood that they would vote for higher taxes in the future--and enough blood so DNA samples could be obtained. I've had quite enough of people who benefit from government services pretending they don't.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And to all the people who paid for their college without student loans, what do we tell them? What do we say to the people who have dutifully paid back their loans?

Here's an idea- Let's treat college loans like other bad debt. If you can't pay, it can be repoed. That might light a fire under some people's butts and instead of spending their discretionary money on partying and weed, they can pay off their debt.

You want something that would help the economy? How bout all the delinquent college loans being paid back to the institutions that lended them the money.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
How bout all the delinquent college loans being paid back to the institutions that lended them the money.


Umm they are paid back by the government. That's one reason student loans are so popular (from the lender side): no risk involved! Our tax dollars at work- woo hoo.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All undergraduate/associate school student loan debt should be forgiven, up to $50k/student. Undergraduate education is the minimum to enter the skilled labor market. It would be a huge blow for equality of opportunity. It is also necessary, given rising tuition costs.

Those of us with graduate debt should suck it up.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
And to all the people who paid for their college without student loans, what do we tell them? What do we say to the people who have dutifully paid back their loans?


We say QE3 (for students AND banks), was cheaper at ~$500 billion than was QE2 (for banks) at ~$600 billion. Yes, I'm inferring that the Fed just invents the $500 billion and credits our accounts.

The lenders are also getting bailed out. The student loans have only been run by the Dept. of Ed. since about 2009. So there's still plenty of outstanding private loans. So its definitely a lot more targeted relief than bailing out investment banks and watching them use the money to eat smaller banks.

I can't believe Steelrails is worried about moral hazard only now and in this way.
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
And to all the people who paid for their college without student loans, what do we tell them? What do we say to the people who have dutifully paid back their loans?

Here's an idea- Let's treat college loans like other bad debt. If you can't pay, it can be repoed. That might light a fire under some people's butts and instead of spending their discretionary money on partying and weed, they can pay off their debt.

You want something that would help the economy? How bout all the delinquent college loans being paid back to the institutions that lended them the money.


I don't have student loans but if big banks can get bailed out then then why can't ciizens? Mortgage debt and student loan debt relief should be on the table for debt forgiveness or reduction. The wrong folks got bailed out if any should at all.

I'm not a fan of any kind of bailout or loan forgiveness but if its going to be done, corporations are the last to see any of it.
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recessiontime



Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why would the government do this? If there was no student debt less people would work the crappy jobs. Forgiving student debt is wishful thinking.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't have student loans but if big banks can get bailed out then then why can't ciizens? Mortgage debt and student loan debt relief should be on the table for debt forgiveness or reduction. The wrong folks got bailed out if any should at all.


I agree. I didn't disapprove of the bank bailouts--total economic collapse is not something I think I would enjoy, and certainly not to endulge others' abstract philosophical reasons. The capitalists' mismanagement of the economy was not limited to credit default swaps.

Homeowners, the unemployed, and students were also screwed over. It's only fair to bail them out, too. At least part of the cost could be recovered by raising taxes on the people who profited from the skewed system.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So instead of paying for college, or paying back college loans, I should have taken out as many loans as I could and not paid back a dime and then hope for a golden parachute?

Sounds to me like the same mentality as "those evil Corporate CEOs".

That's the message such an idea sends- Run up debt and then vote for some politician that will forgive your debt.

That is a terrible way to run an economy and a nation.

Where is the money for this going to come from? What effect do you think it will have on banks, interest rates, and institutions of higher learning?

Now not saying all people are like this- but a good 50% of college students, and especially those with loans, took them out because instead of living with mom and dad, instead the decided to party hard and wanted their own place. Or if they lived in a dorm instead of an apartment, they spent their discretionary money on booze, bling, and bongs. You know who you don't see whining for their money- Those boring immigrant kids who avoided drugs, went to the library every day, got good grades, talked to their professors, and then applied to top level graduate schools and now have good jobs. You know, the same things our parents/grandparents did. That doesn't mean you can't have a beer, but good grief college was filled with people living beyond their means.

Now you expect me to pay for that? You're telling me that these people get a free-ride? Actually a free-ride for them isn't so bad, but don't do it at the expense of the lost opportunity of the money that was dutifully spent by those who paid for college or paid back their loans.

Forgiving debt is not the answer. Paying debt is the answer. Forgiving debt will just lead to more debt in the long-term. It doesn't solve the underlying problem- A lack of "good jobs". In fact, it is likely to exacerbate the problem. A job enables you to pay debt. Debt forgiveness just takes you back to zero and then the meter starts ticking again. You'll still be slinging lattes or some such. Then will come the credit cards...

The good thing out of all of this is that college might become more exclusive. That's a big problem- widespread availability of college made it valueless and not something to work for.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The good thing out of all of this is that college might become more exclusive. That's a big problem- widespread availability of college made it valueless and not something to work for.


Let me be the first to play the blue collar card.
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Gamecock



Joined: 26 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:

Quote:
Now not saying all people are like this- but a good 50% of college students, and especially those with loans, took them out because instead of living with mom and dad, instead the decided to party hard and wanted their own place. Or if they lived in a dorm instead of an apartment, they spent their discretionary money on booze, bling, and bongs. You know who you don't see whining for their money- Those boring immigrant kids who avoided drugs, went to the library every day, got good grades, talked to their professors, and then applied to top level graduate schools and now have good jobs. You know, the same things our parents/grandparents did. That doesn't mean you can't have a beer, but good grief college was filled with people living beyond their means.


50%? How old are you, Steelrails? This was maybe the case 20 years ago, but the price of tuition is ridiculous these days. For someone from a typical lower-middle class home (like me) where the parent's have NO money to kick in for college, even living at home and working part-time jobs you STILL have to take out loans to pay the tuition!

As most people don't live next door to a university, they must have a vehicle (even a crappy for a few hundred bucks), which means ongoing gas and insurance costs- there goes the money from 1 part-time job!

I'm tired of hearing your kind of stereotype. It is BS to say, "I did it, why can't these lazy, partying SOB's do it today!" MOST kids taking out loans are NOT partying their way through school or on drugs. Do you also think poor people are poor because they are lazy? I'll tell you who is partying and doing drugs- the frat boys and sorority girls who come from means and have never worked for anything in their life- yes, they are having a blast while MOST students are doing their homework on their 15 minute break from their part-time job. This is the reality TODAY.

Many of those "immigrant" kids these days have MUCH more money than the average middle-class American. These "boring" immigrant kids in top grad schools (who are really Asians from means, not Hispanics who jumped the fence from Mexico) are not like your parents and grandparents who worked and paid their way through school by the sweat of their brow or on the GI bill. Not even close.

This is not America of 50 years ago or even 20 years ago. Starting from scratch, without family money, you CANNOT be a full-time student at even a state university and live within your means. You will graduate with debt.

As far as making university more exclusive, I'm all for this. Do it like in Asia where the BEST STUDENTS are accepted for higher education. Make it really competitive, then EVERYONE has to work for it, because people with with wealth certainly don't. They just show up for 4 years at the best schools while Daddy foots the bill, then graduate debt-free and are able to take home ALL the cash they make for the next 10 years! To make it more exclusive based on economics is, well, class warfare. Why should someone who comes from a rich family have more opportunities than a good, hardworking kid who is born into poverty? How American is that ideal?
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gamecock wrote:
Steelrails wrote:

Quote:
Now not saying all people are like this- but a good 50% of college students, and especially those with loans, took them out because instead of living with mom and dad, instead the decided to party hard and wanted their own place. Or if they lived in a dorm instead of an apartment, they spent their discretionary money on booze, bling, and bongs. You know who you don't see whining for their money- Those boring immigrant kids who avoided drugs, went to the library every day, got good grades, talked to their professors, and then applied to top level graduate schools and now have good jobs. You know, the same things our parents/grandparents did. That doesn't mean you can't have a beer, but good grief college was filled with people living beyond their means.


50%? How old are you, Steelrails? This was maybe the case 20 years ago, but the price of tuition is ridiculous these days. For someone from a typical lower-middle class home (like me) where the parent's have NO money to kick in for college, even living at home and working part-time jobs you STILL have to take out loans to pay the tuition!

As most people don't live next door to a university, they must have a vehicle (even a crappy for a few hundred bucks), which means ongoing gas and insurance costs- there goes the money from 1 part-time job!

I'm tired of hearing your kind of stereotype. It is BS to say, "I did it, why can't these lazy, partying SOB's do it today!" MOST kids taking out loans are NOT partying their way through school or on drugs. Do you also think poor people are poor because they are lazy? I'll tell you who is partying and doing drugs- the frat boys and sorority girls who come from means and have never worked for anything in their life- yes, they are having a blast while MOST students are doing their homework on their 15 minute break from their part-time job. This is the reality TODAY.

Many of those "immigrant" kids these days have MUCH more money than the average middle-class American. These "boring" immigrant kids in top grad schools (who are really Asians from means, not Hispanics who jumped the fence from Mexico) are not like your parents and grandparents who worked and paid their way through school by the sweat of their brow or on the GI bill. Not even close.

This is not America of 50 years ago or even 20 years ago. Starting from scratch, without family money, you CANNOT be a full-time student at even a state university and live within your means. You will graduate with debt.

As far as making university more exclusive, I'm all for this. Do it like in Asia where the BEST STUDENTS are accepted for higher education. Make it really competitive, then EVERYONE has to work for it, because people with with wealth certainly don't. They just show up for 4 years at the best schools while Daddy foots the bill, then graduate debt-free and are able to take home ALL the cash they make for the next 10 years! To make it more exclusive based on economics is, well, class warfare. Why should someone who comes from a rich family have more opportunities than a good, hardworking kid who is born into poverty? How American is that ideal?


Fine, you're right (even though you're wrong).

You should still pay your debt.

Do you not see how patently unfair that is to the people who DID pay their debt or pay their tuition bill. They could have just partied that money away, but instead they did the right thing. Now the shortsighted are rewarded with golden parachutes and bailouts?

For the record, I'm not in favor of bailing out Wall Street as well.
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Gamecock



Joined: 26 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Umm, i never said people shouldn't pay their debt. I think they should. I'm just responding to your massive generalizations about students.

I did pay my tuition (and my debt) all by my lonesome through hard work. But I don't feel it was fair that some of my friends graduated with NO debt and didn't have to work at all to pay for their tuition, just because their family had old money for well over a century. It isn't fair!

Life isn't fair in capitalism. Economic success favors people who START with capital. period.

You feel it isn't fair to you if college debt is forgiven. I agree. However, why is that any less fair than what I'm describing about rich, spoiled kids?


Last edited by Gamecock on Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:20 pm; edited 7 times in total
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Leon



Joined: 31 May 2010

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that forgiving student debt is an impossible solution. I think that reforming college costs might be more important. Lets stop spending so much on college buildings and lower tuition costs. Do colleges need state of the art recreation buildings? Lets give students more acsess to higher education. Americans pay far more for college than most countries. Lets reform student loans so that people do not end up paying two or three times the initial capital. Lets look at things like internet classrooms. I wish that jobs that didn't need college level skills didn't ask for a degree from job applicants. Lets not send every kid to college, but encourage thoose better suited for trade school to go there instead.

I was lucky, my family took care of my college costs. I took out a small loan, maybe $2,000, for my living expenses, yes steel rails I used some of that money for parties and drinking and yes even some drugs, and I have about $400 left. My loan payments are an after thought for me, but when I hear about people my age with $15,000 or more of debt it is astounding, I can't imagine how devestating that would be for someone just starting out.
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Gamecock



Joined: 26 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, Leon.
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