Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Forgive Student Debt, Fight the Recession
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 17, 18, 19  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gamecock wrote:


I did pay my tuition (and my debt) all by my lonesome through hard work. But I don't feel it was fair that some of my friends graduated with NO debt and didn't have to work at all to pay for their tuition, just because their family had old money for well over a century. It isn't fair!

You feel it isn't fair to you if college debt is forgiven. I agree. However, why is that any less fair than what I'm describing about rich, spoiled kids?


Anyone who turns down free money for college is a retard. People shouldn't have to worry about doing so or apologizing for it because others wish they had that.

A lot of those "spoiled rich kids" got that college money not by being spoiled, but by studying hard and not getting into trouble. Their parents weren't just going to throw that money at them. They had to get good grades. They also had to choose majors that were likely to earn good money. They had to join the family for church and dinner all the time.

Now a fair number of students I know also took out loans AND worked part time jobs and took a fairly diligent yet somewhat relaxed attitude. But they didn't have a sense of urgency with their money or their academics. They didn't study as hard as they could in Middle School, goofed off in High School and didn't get into as good as a college as they could. Then instead of totally saving their money it was "time to find myself", switch majors, experiment with drugs, party, "gotta look good for the club" and all that.

Are their a large numbers of exceptions? Absolutely. But I went to college in the states too. I saw everyone's lifestyle. Not fooling me with your sob stories.

Maybe instead of a carrot, these people need a stick.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Leon



Joined: 31 May 2010

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Gamecock wrote:


I did pay my tuition (and my debt) all by my lonesome through hard work. But I don't feel it was fair that some of my friends graduated with NO debt and didn't have to work at all to pay for their tuition, just because their family had old money for well over a century. It isn't fair!

You feel it isn't fair to you if college debt is forgiven. I agree. However, why is that any less fair than what I'm describing about rich, spoiled kids?


Anyone who turns down free money for college is a retard. People shouldn't have to worry about doing so or apologizing for it because others wish they had that.

A lot of those "spoiled rich kids" got that college money not by being spoiled, but by studying hard and not getting into trouble. Their parents weren't just going to throw that money at them. They had to get good grades. They also had to choose majors that were likely to earn good money. They had to join the family for church and dinner all the time.

Now a fair number of students I know also took out loans AND worked part time jobs and took a fairly diligent yet somewhat relaxed attitude. But they didn't have a sense of urgency with their money or their academics. They didn't study as hard as they could in Middle School, goofed off in High School and didn't get into as good as a college as they could. Then instead of totally saving their money it was "time to find myself", switch majors, experiment with drugs, party, "gotta look good for the club" and all that.

Are their a large numbers of exceptions? Absolutely. But I went to college in the states too. I saw everyone's lifestyle. Not fooling me with your sob stories.

Maybe instead of a carrot, these people need a stick.


You do realize that many of thoose people partying will be more successful in later life than thoose who studied hard? Lots and lots of success is about interpersonal skills and networks. I really don't like frat boys, but they make a good example, if I spend all my time drinking with my friend who has a dad that works at a company I want to.....

Most peoples parents do give them money with out restricitons, and you instance that every should always go to church with their family is weird. Also, I think that there is lots of room in the college experince for life outside of academics, whether that's partying, or whatever else. There needs to be a balance, and these young adults should have fun and learn about themselves as well. As for the high paying major thing, if every one was a engineering major than there wouldn't be enough jobs. Also, if you have the right interpersonal skills that you can't get just from studying any major can be high paying.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gamecock



Joined: 26 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails said:

Quote:
Anyone who turns down free money for college is a retard. People shouldn't have to worry about doing so or apologizing for it because others wish they had that.


This. Haha.

So if someone is rich and given free money for college they shouldn't apologize because they are responsible and choose good majors (and go to church and family dinners! haha)...

but if the government decided to cancel student loan debt, thus making that college money free for poorer people, who are clearly much more likely to be irresponsible (i guess they were working on the weekends instead of going to church!) it is patently unfair!

Got it! Haha.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leon wrote:
Steelrails wrote:
Gamecock wrote:


I did pay my tuition (and my debt) all by my lonesome through hard work. But I don't feel it was fair that some of my friends graduated with NO debt and didn't have to work at all to pay for their tuition, just because their family had old money for well over a century. It isn't fair!

You feel it isn't fair to you if college debt is forgiven. I agree. However, why is that any less fair than what I'm describing about rich, spoiled kids?


Anyone who turns down free money for college is a retard. People shouldn't have to worry about doing so or apologizing for it because others wish they had that.

A lot of those "spoiled rich kids" got that college money not by being spoiled, but by studying hard and not getting into trouble. Their parents weren't just going to throw that money at them. They had to get good grades. They also had to choose majors that were likely to earn good money. They had to join the family for church and dinner all the time.

Now a fair number of students I know also took out loans AND worked part time jobs and took a fairly diligent yet somewhat relaxed attitude. But they didn't have a sense of urgency with their money or their academics. They didn't study as hard as they could in Middle School, goofed off in High School and didn't get into as good as a college as they could. Then instead of totally saving their money it was "time to find myself", switch majors, experiment with drugs, party, "gotta look good for the club" and all that.

Are their a large numbers of exceptions? Absolutely. But I went to college in the states too. I saw everyone's lifestyle. Not fooling me with your sob stories.

Maybe instead of a carrot, these people need a stick.


You do realize that many of thoose people partying will be more successful in later life than thoose who studied hard? Lots and lots of success is about interpersonal skills and networks. I really don't like frat boys, but they make a good example, if I spend all my time drinking with my friend who has a dad that works at a company I want to.....

Most peoples parents do give them money with out restricitons, and you instance that every should always go to church with their family is weird. Also, I think that there is lots of room in the college experince for life outside of academics, whether that's partying, or whatever else. There needs to be a balance, and these young adults should have fun and learn about themselves as well. As for the high paying major thing, if every one was a engineering major than there wouldn't be enough jobs. Also, if you have the right interpersonal skills that you can't get just from studying any major can be high paying.


Obviously the best is to have connections and party AND be responsible.

Partying and networking may get you in the door, but it makes it hard to advance when people can tell you have the responsibility and self-control of a two year old. This CAN be overcome if you excel decision making.

But a big part of advancement is being able to be trusted with increasing responsibility. It all boils down to how good you are with money (or at least seem to make everyone think they are)

A lot of people I have met that have excelled are rather poor at interpersonal skills, what they do have is force of will and a willingness to impose their will on others, combined with decent decision making.

But yeah, I'm sure that's what some of these types were thinking- "I'll party and build connections through smoking weed" and I'll have better "life experience than those nerds". "I'll find myself and backpack through Europe rather than take that internship".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Leon



Joined: 31 May 2010

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Leon wrote:
Steelrails wrote:
Gamecock wrote:


I did pay my tuition (and my debt) all by my lonesome through hard work. But I don't feel it was fair that some of my friends graduated with NO debt and didn't have to work at all to pay for their tuition, just because their family had old money for well over a century. It isn't fair!

You feel it isn't fair to you if college debt is forgiven. I agree. However, why is that any less fair than what I'm describing about rich, spoiled kids?


Anyone who turns down free money for college is a retard. People shouldn't have to worry about doing so or apologizing for it because others wish they had that.

A lot of those "spoiled rich kids" got that college money not by being spoiled, but by studying hard and not getting into trouble. Their parents weren't just going to throw that money at them. They had to get good grades. They also had to choose majors that were likely to earn good money. They had to join the family for church and dinner all the time.

Now a fair number of students I know also took out loans AND worked part time jobs and took a fairly diligent yet somewhat relaxed attitude. But they didn't have a sense of urgency with their money or their academics. They didn't study as hard as they could in Middle School, goofed off in High School and didn't get into as good as a college as they could. Then instead of totally saving their money it was "time to find myself", switch majors, experiment with drugs, party, "gotta look good for the club" and all that.

Are their a large numbers of exceptions? Absolutely. But I went to college in the states too. I saw everyone's lifestyle. Not fooling me with your sob stories.

Maybe instead of a carrot, these people need a stick.


You do realize that many of thoose people partying will be more successful in later life than thoose who studied hard? Lots and lots of success is about interpersonal skills and networks. I really don't like frat boys, but they make a good example, if I spend all my time drinking with my friend who has a dad that works at a company I want to.....

Most peoples parents do give them money with out restricitons, and you instance that every should always go to church with their family is weird. Also, I think that there is lots of room in the college experince for life outside of academics, whether that's partying, or whatever else. There needs to be a balance, and these young adults should have fun and learn about themselves as well. As for the high paying major thing, if every one was a engineering major than there wouldn't be enough jobs. Also, if you have the right interpersonal skills that you can't get just from studying any major can be high paying.


Obviously the best is to have connections and party AND be responsible.

Partying and networking may get you in the door, but it makes it hard to advance when people can tell you have the responsibility and self-control of a two year old. This CAN be overcome if you excel decision making.

But a big part of advancement is being able to be trusted with increasing responsibility. It all boils down to how good you are with money (or at least seem to make everyone think they are)

A lot of people I have met that have excelled are rather poor at interpersonal skills, what they do have is force of will and a willingness to impose their will on others, combined with decent decision making.

But yeah, I'm sure that's what some of these types were thinking- "I'll party and build connections through smoking weed" and I'll have better "life experience than those nerds". "I'll find myself and backpack through Europe rather than take that internship".


I learned how to drink in college. That is an important life skill. I learned by making mistakes when I was a freshman. I learned it by making mistakes and being irresponsible as a freshman. Now I know how much I can drink, and since drinking is a big part of business culture it can be a valuable skill. I learned by making mistakes. Making mistakes can be the best way to learn about responsibilty, but no kid should have to learn by taking out a 15,000-20,000 dollar loan to pay for an undergrad degree and then have to pay two or three times the capital. Loans need reform.

In my college the nerds smoked lots of weed, and then had their internship in Europe..... you generalizer you....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I learned how to drink in college. That is an important life skill. I learned by making mistakes when I was a freshman. I learned it by making mistakes and being irresponsible as a freshman.


Good, others learned by saying no in the first place.

Well to those of you who studied your butt off in Middle and High School, saved up your money, and when you went to college, did everything you could to save money by not bar-hopping and smoking massive amounts of weed, who chose a major with an eye towards paying off your loan in the future, who didn't say "I'm not going to things for the money", who accepted the generosity offered by your parents in exchange for greater contact and obedience, who worked as much as they could, who did things like spend their free time talking with their professors, or in academic clubs, or educating themselves to acquire new skills, and so on and so forth, and you STILL have massive debt, by all means, lets get something going to ease the burden.

However, the other 90% of you need to accept the bad personal decisions that were made. Maybe you should have studied more in Middle and High School. Maybe instead of trying to get laid, you should have read a book or worked a part-time job. Maybe you should have "Just said no" to drugs in the first place. Maybe instead of hanging out with your friends playing Madden, or watching Aqua Teen Hunger Force, or heading down to Cancun, maybe you should have headed to the library or joined an academic club. Maybe instead of hoping for your drinking buddies to hook you up with a job, maybe if you had spent more time with professors, professionals, and the academically motivated (those boring, old, and/or nerdy types) you might have a job. Maybe instead of spending the summer in Thailand, you had spent the summer interning at PocketProtector Inc. you might have a better job.

Live with the choices you made. I find it very hard that all but maybe 10% of those getting "screwed" can't look back at maybe some life choices they made as being more of a reason they are in the state they are in.

And again, how does forgiving student debt create jobs? Blame the lack of effective tariffs (thanks to both parties) that have destroyed our manufacturing base. I agree that the short-term quarterly gains investor mindset has contributed to this, but blame rests with the masses too.

People faultily assumed that things would be like the past and that easy prosperity is a natural state of existence.

Maybe if they had the sense of urgency that our forefathers had, they might have actually done better. Our grandparents and parents, took time to grow the tree, we then assumed that we could enjoy all the fruit without tending to the orchard ourselves.

But the fact is, people made a bad decision. Live with it.

No, unless a debt forgiveness gives greater compensation to those who paid their bills in full, debt forgiveness simply for those who haven't paid is ludicrous. it won't solve the problem and make the problems worse.

Seriously, please enlighten me as to how debt forgiveness would create "good jobs" and not cause serious problems for our financial sector and banks.

Might as well print money and hand it out. That's been working great for Zimbabwe I hear.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Leon



Joined: 31 May 2010

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Quote:
I learned how to drink in college. That is an important life skill. I learned by making mistakes when I was a freshman. I learned it by making mistakes and being irresponsible as a freshman.


Good, others learned by saying no in the first place.

Well to those of you who studied your butt off in Middle and High School, saved up your money, and when you went to college, did everything you could to save money by not bar-hopping and smoking massive amounts of weed, who chose a major with an eye towards paying off your loan in the future, who didn't say "I'm not going to things for the money", who accepted the generosity offered by your parents in exchange for greater contact and obedience, who worked as much as they could, who did things like spend their free time talking with their professors, or in academic clubs, or educating themselves to acquire new skills, and so on and so forth, and you STILL have massive debt, by all means, lets get something going to ease the burden.

However, the other 90% of you need to accept the bad personal decisions that were made. Maybe you should have studied more in Middle and High School. Maybe instead of trying to get laid, you should have read a book or worked a part-time job. Maybe you should have "Just said no" to drugs in the first place. Maybe instead of hanging out with your friends playing Madden, or watching Aqua Teen Hunger Force, or heading down to Cancun, maybe you should have headed to the library or joined an academic club. Maybe instead of hoping for your drinking buddies to hook you up with a job, maybe if you had spent more time with professors, professionals, and the academically motivated (those boring, old, and/or nerdy types) you might have a job. Maybe instead of spending the summer in Thailand, you had spent the summer interning at PocketProtector Inc. you might have a better job.

Live with the choices you made. I find it very hard that all but maybe 10% of those getting "screwed" can't look back at maybe some life choices they made as being more of a reason they are in the state they are in.

And again, how does forgiving student debt create jobs? Blame the lack of effective tariffs (thanks to both parties) that have destroyed our manufacturing base. I agree that the short-term quarterly gains investor mindset has contributed to this, but blame rests with the masses too.

People faultily assumed that things would be like the past and that easy prosperity is a natural state of existence.

Maybe if they had the sense of urgency that our forefathers had, they might have actually done better. Our grandparents and parents, took time to grow the tree, we then assumed that we could enjoy all the fruit without tending to the orchard ourselves.

But the fact is, people made a bad decision. Live with it.

No, unless a debt forgiveness gives greater compensation to those who paid their bills in full, debt forgiveness simply for those who haven't paid is ludicrous. it won't solve the problem and make the problems worse.

Seriously, please enlighten me as to how debt forgiveness would create "good jobs" and not cause serious problems for our financial sector and banks.

Might as well print money and hand it out. That's been working great for Zimbabwe I hear.


I think that the 90% is a lot smaller than you think, and that 10% is much much much bigger. I think a lot of people are really angry because they did everything they were supposed to do, and still lost out. You act like a little bit more hardwork would have stopped the crisis, that's absurd. A lot less fruad and corruption would have stopped it.

As to the creating jobs bit, I don't agree that the debt holiday is a good idea, but it would put lots of money into the system by stimulating consumer demand, which is the biggest reason our economy is stagnant. People are too busy paying debt on bad loans, things like the students who have paid twice their initial capital in student loans and people who owe more than their houses are worth, to create the demand needed to create jobs.

Also your puritanical attitude is silly. People who drink do better in business, studies have been done to prove this. Not alcoholics, but people who drink. Many many many of the most successful business people did drugs, hell how much yayo have the heads of bussiness stuffed up their noses in the 80's.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Also your puritanical attitude is silly. People who drink do better in business, studies have been done to prove this. Not alcoholics, but people who drink. Many many many of the most successful business people did drugs, hell how much yayo have the heads of bussiness stuffed up their noses in the 80's.


Yes, but just because one person can drink and get stoned 24-7, doesn't mean we all can.

Some of us can handle it, some can't. If you're burning through $200 worth of weed a month, plus spending another $200 at the bar or at the club, and have student loan payments of $400 a month, well.......

Why is it so hard for people to admit that maybe they didn't make the best decisions for their long-term economic well being back in High School and College.


Quote:
I think that the 90% is a lot smaller than you think, and that 10% is much much much bigger. I think a lot of people are really angry because they did everything they were supposed to do, and still lost out. You act like a little bit more hardwork would have stopped the crisis, that's absurd. A lot less fruad and corruption would have stopped it.


Still doesn't change the fact that they should pay their loans. And no, they didn't do everything they were supposed to. They did everything that they thought was possible based on the popular narrative out there. but the popular narrative and what you're supposed to do are two totally different things.

Quote:
but it would put lots of money into the system by stimulating consumer demand, which is the biggest reason our economy is stagnant


Consumer demand for what? Stuff from China? Stuff that relies on the service industry? Can't be anything to big of substance because there is no way anyone would lend out money to these types after that. And if they DID do that, then our money might as well be printed on toilet paper. What we need is for people to PAY their loans. That would do more to help business and generate jobs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Leon



Joined: 31 May 2010

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Steelrails]Consumer demand for what? Stuff from China? Stuff that relies on the service industry? Can't be anything to big of substance because there is no way anyone would lend out money to these types after that. And if they DID do that, then our money might as well be printed on toilet paper. What we need is for people to PAY their loans. That would do more to help business and generate jobs.[/quote]

How are people paying bad loans back going to make jobs considering that it is just giving more money to the finicial industry. The fincial industry is the biggest reason the jobs are gone in the first place. Also the banks have lots of money, but they aren't hiring. You don't seem to understand economics.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leon wrote:
[quote="Steelrails]Consumer demand for what? Stuff from China? Stuff that relies on the service industry? Can't be anything to big of substance because there is no way anyone would lend out money to these types after that. And if they DID do that, then our money might as well be printed on toilet paper. What we need is for people to PAY their loans. That would do more to help business and generate jobs.


How are people paying bad loans back going to make jobs considering that it is just giving more money to the finicial industry. The fincial industry is the biggest reason the jobs are gone in the first place. Also the banks have lots of money, but they aren't hiring. You don't seem to understand economics.[/quote]

Because people paying back loans should lower interest rates and make borrowing more favorable, which in turn can lead to businesses expanding.

Not saying such an idea is full proof, but having loans paid off rather than forgiven strikes me as more solid long-term.

This was brewing before the financial industry. The big thing was the loss of manufacturing jobs and the outsourcing of America.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Unposter



Joined: 04 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys can go round and round on the merits of personal and social responsibility - I don't think that is going to get you very far. Obviously, the answer is somewhere in the middle as both are important.

For me, I guess the starting point for some kind of student loan forgiveness is the bank bailouts and fairness. The government has put far too much emphasis on protecting businesses and banks and too little emphasis on individual consumers.

The second point would be the Bush tax cuts. For the most part, there was agreement that the Bush tax cuts would stimulate the economy because people would have more money. The problem is that they disproportionately helped those with the most money.

We need to do something like the Bush tax cuts but do it more progressively. Give money back to those in need, such as high debt, and give less or nothing to those with a lot of money. Maybe the government could offer tax breaks or grants to those with housing loans, car loans, student loans or high credit card debt - something similar to the Bush tax cuts but more targeted to those who need it the most.

I think it could stimulate the economy becuase people would have more money to buy things, including paying down debt, which would also help the banks. I also think investments in education has the potential for individuals to improve their economic situation further helping the economy or even to educate people to be entrepeneurs (sp?) and job creators.

Of course, it has to be paid for, unlike the Bush tax cut. You either need to cut other government spending and shuffle those resources to this type of stimulous or you need to raise taxes. Personally, I am in favor of raising taxes, especially on those who are bank owners, executives and anyone working in the financial industry who were responsible for the current crisis. And, if that doesn't generate enough funds, than anyone else who has unevenly benefited from the skewed American tax policy of the last thirty or so years.

It is not so much to ask from people who have benefited so much.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It wasn't just the bankers. It was the borrowers themselves.

That and blame the Clinton administration in collaboration with Wall Street Republicans for the idea that any idiot should be able to easy loans and credit.

Then add in the idiots who signed on.

Okay we get it, the bankers and corporations were evil.

What about normal Americans who lived on lives of easy credit and short-term thinking. Look, they are either heroes or morons. But to one minute call them "the greatness of America" and then the next minute say "they had no idea what they were getting into, so we can't blame them" is silly. In a democracy its masses who are responsible for things, not the elite.

So you know who to identify me with, because by how I'm talking I must clearly be a Hannity fan, I'm actually a Ron Paul-Pat Buchanan backer.

Giving to "people in need" is going to end up working the same way as giving bailouts to corporations. In about two years things will back to the same. You can't just throw money at problems. Forgiving student debt or handing out money to "people in need" is the same thing.

Sorry, but a middle class lifestyle is not a right. It has to be earned. The idea that a sustainable broadly middle class lifestyle is somehow man's natural state and that it can be obtained through policies that don't involve either A) Tremendous effort or B)A hint of nastiness is beyond me.

Sorry, but CEOs aren't the only one's looking for bailouts for their lifestyle of high-risk and excess.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Unposter



Joined: 04 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails,

Did you swallow a cliche' book? You really do read a lot of things into these posts.

I will reiterate my proposal: it is an inverse Bush tax cut. Instead of the wealthiest getting the biggest amount, the poor get the biggest amount.

What it is not: It is not loan forgiveness. It is not a guarantee of a middle class lifestyle, though I wish it were.

The government can just write a check or give a tax grant to people who have student loans, home loans, car loans or high credit card debt. They can spend it and stimulate the economy or they can pay back their debts or whatever they choose.

For example, lets say that we take 1% of all tax revenues. Then, we give that money to those most in need. So, instead of the Bush tax cut where you get back the money you put in; those who are wealthy would get nothing and those who have the least get the biggest share.

Now, you can call that a tinge of nastiness but you have people who have benefited greatly of the last 30 years, partially due to a reduced tax burden and then you have most people who have not done so well in the last 20 to 30 years. The rich won't miss it. The poor will appreciate it. And, the rich will eventually get it anyway because the poor will just spend it or pay back their debts. So, it really helps everyone!!!

If you really worry that they will spend it on sinful things, then you can just say that the money can only be used to pay back debt. I don't care. No one earmarked what you could do with the Bush tax cut but I guess you are not supposed to tell the rich what to do but you can the poor.

The program would not increase the national debt because it would either be paid for by cuts to other programs or my preference increases in taxes for the wealthiest.

Okay, now slam my proposal because that is what we are supposed to do on this forum.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Floating World



Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha ha listen to you guys arguing about what makes one succesful in life - all the while you're net's in the world's worst performing esl industry.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So you know who to identify me with, because by how I'm talking I must clearly be a Hannity fan, I'm actually a Ron Paul-Pat Buchanan backer


You say this as if you think there is a significant difference between them. Granted, they are not all three from Texas. Beyond that, pretty much same-same.

Quote:
Sorry, but a middle class lifestyle is not a right.


I don't think that is the argument going on here. I think the argument is that the chance at a middle class lifestyle is a right, but that the system that used to offer that chance has gotten out of whack. The aspects that affect young college graduates in particular can be addressed (in part) by a partial or total forgiveness of college debt which would do double duty by helping to stimulate the economy.

I agree with the poster who said the whole system of financing public education needs to be reformed. This thread is about debt forgiveness, but I'd like to see a thread about why tuition has skyrocketed and proposals to address the situation.

I'm fascinated with the idea on the right (from some) that we are educating too many people and educating them too much. This is quite different than the attitude in the country I grew up in. It seems very radical to me. I'd like to hear more. In 'Brave New World', if I recall, they injected a bit of alcohol into the brain of fetuses to ensure that only a few were intellectually capable of enough education to serve the corporations. Should we be considering that approach?

I went to college in a different era. My first weekend at school was spent at a sit-in because the college wanted to close the library on weekends to save a bit of money. Lesson learned: the powers that be will do whatever they darn well please unless someone challenges them. All rules serve the benefit of someone.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 17, 18, 19  Next
Page 2 of 19

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2013 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International