|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
naturegirl321
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Home sweet home
|
 Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:32 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| T-J wrote: |
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| OK, that's not what I read on this board...which is why I didn't get a tax exception/residency form. I paid taxes while working in a hagwon, as did everyone else I knew who worked in a hagwon. I guess there is no way to get that money back? (It is too late now?) |
Yikes, that stinks. |
Why? Did you just realize you've committed tax fraud and declared it on a public forum? Yep. That would stink. Remember, ingnorance of the law is not a defense.
Merry Christmas everyone!
|
Uh, no. I work for a uni, a top one to boot. Never worked for a hagwon, which is why I don't know the rules for a hagwon. Merry Christmas to you to, but take your own advice about the whole "ignorance not being a defense"  and assuming that I'm breaking the rules when I've publicly stated on this forum that I'm at a uni.
IN the case of those who do, they'd simply get the paper from the IRS, hand it over to their hagwon and have it rejected due to the agreement. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Julius wrote: |
| cheolsu wrote: |
| I do think newbies should make it a point to never accept a hagwon job for 2.2, particularly if it's out of the Seoul area, and we should publicize this point. |
Unfortunately 2.0 is still better than nothing for thousands of unemployed americans. And the global economy ain't bouncing back anytime soon. |
I think attitudes like this are detrimental, and a big reason why the (already oversaturated) ESL market in Korea is getting so bad. Telling everyone you can that things are horrible in the West, and that there are no jobs or opportunities there keeps people here, attracts more people, and gets people to accept lower and lower wages, undercutting each other, and fueling a race to the bottom. The truth is, in the U.S. and other countries, unemployment has been falling and wages have been rising, yet as this has been taking place, things have been getting worse and worse for ESLers in Korea.
| Quote: |
| The current unemployment rate is 3.9 percent for those with a bachelor's degree or higher, compared to 6.9 percent for those with an associate's or some college, and 8 percent for those with just high school. |
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2013/01/09/college-degrees-recession_n_2442912.html
Think of it this way: the more you praise Korea while bashing the West, the more you personally (as a resident of Korea) will suffer. Unless you are a poster who doesn't live in Korea (creeper1, madoka, PatrickGHBusan, etc.), it is directly opposed to your self interests to make this happen. If someone posts that there are other opportunities in the world, there is no need to be angry, insecure, or defensive. The actual money you are able to earn should matter to you a lot more than having your e-feelings hurt on the internet. So yeah, try to swallow your pride and operate from a position of logic rather than emotion.
| Quote: |
Money � and lots of it � is the most important factor in a person�s happiness, according to a comprehensive think tank report.
Findings by the Institute of Economic Affairs show that happiness levels correlate with the amount of wealth a person accumulates.
And, in contrast to popular belief, it does not level off when the assets reach a certain threshold. |
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2087162/Why-money-really-buy-happiness-Cash-important-factor-making-feel-content-say-researchers.html
| Quote: |
Its most controversial finding contradicts the widely-held belief that above a certain income level, people do not become any happier.
The theory, conceived in 1974 by wellbeing expert Richard Easterlin, claimed that happiness stagnates when income rises beyond a certain level.
And two years ago, a study at Princeton University claimed to have found that wellbeing stopped increasing at �58,700 � with an increase of as much as a third making little difference.
But the report, The Pursuit of Happiness, condemns the theory as a �myth� and �fake�. It argues a 20 per cent rise in income has the same impact on wellbeing irrespective of how much wealth the person has initially.
It states: �No country is rich enough to have hit a satiation point, if such a point exists.
�These findings are robust and use an extremely rich set of data. Richer individuals are happier with their lives.�
The report says this holds true for 140 countries studied, in which �the relationship between income and satisfaction is remarkably similar�. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Quote:
The current unemployment rate is 3.9 percent for those with a bachelor's degree or higher, compared to 6.9 percent for those with an associate's or some college, and 8 percent for those with just high school.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2013/01/09/college-degrees-recession_n_2442912.html
Think of it this way: the more you praise Korea while bashing the West, the more you personally (as a resident of Korea) will suffer. Unless you are a poster who doesn't live in Korea (creeper1, madoka, PatrickGHBusan, etc.), it is directly opposed to your self interests to make this happen. If someone posts that there are other opportunities in the world, there is no need to be angry, insecure, or defensive. The actual money you are able to earn should matter to you a lot more than having your e-feelings hurt on the internet. So yeah, try to swallow your pride and operate from a position of logic rather than emotion. |
Yeah I pretty much agree with this. The west (in my case Canada) isn't bad at all if you got a degree. You may have to move to another city, accept a pretty low salary at first and get crapped on, but you are building experience and things will get better after 2-3 years on the job. I know it has for all of my friends that stuck it out and they had BAs, BScs etc. FOr the ones that couldn't find anything they just went back to school for a few years to retrain. Some did accounting, another became a nurse and another did an 18 month diploma plus apprenticeship to work in avionics. He landed a job right out of his technical institute.
According to some posters on here, all that is available is McDonalds and Call Centers. Hogwash if you're motivated or willing to retrain and in most cases that doesn't mean going back to school for another 4 year degree. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chungbukdo
Joined: 22 Aug 2010
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
Oh well, economy should pick up in 2015 ish or so, right?
. |
No, California municipalities and the whole state will be going bankrupt and tonnes of people with F-4 visas will come in and pick up jobs, especially considering the unemployment rate in some Californian cities. There are over a million people with Korean ancestry in California and most of them are bilingual. Plenty of them pick up jobs in Korea without having a degree, when their prospects without a degree in Cali are piss poor. A bilingual person without a degree is 100% more qualified than a monolingual English speaking degree holder, in my mind and in the minds of many customers.
Tonnes of people are getting degrees they don't need (meaning employers don't want) and the US government is even further subsidizing the practice, so more people with degrees that consider themselves "underemployed" in the US will be considering Korea as well on an E visa basis. There are lots of these people who consider themselves underemployed or are taking further education because their job prospects were not up to their standard. The "unemployment rate" does not cover either of those. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dairyairy
Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't know the stats but many of the previous posts on this thread are laying the blame for the glut in E2 applicants solely on the financial conditions and education institutions in the USA while there are many E2 teachers in Korea from Canada or South Africa. South Africans are everywhere in GEPIK.
Plus, let's not forget those who are really driving the salaries down- illegal teachers. This article may be a few years old but it shows you the sheer numbers of those teaching illegally and that must negatively impact the market for the rest of us.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2008/jun/19/tefl-south-korea
| Quote: |
| More than 17,000 foreign teachers are working in South Korea |
| Quote: |
Korea's immigration service estimates that an additional 32,500 foreigners are teaching English illegally without proper visas.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dairyairy wrote: |
| I don't know the stats but many of the previous posts on this thread are laying the blame for the glut in E2 applicants solely on the financial conditions and education institutions in the USA while there are many E2 teachers in Korea from Canada or South Africa. South Africans are everywhere in GEPIK. |
Likewise South Africans are feeling the pinch as their economy nosedives. Not to mention that white folks don't get jobs there anymore due to affirmative action.
Korea didn't used to accept SA's but with the korean economy slipping as well, they've lowered their expectations.
The western economy is haemhorraging severely and in the long run it is unlikely to recover. There are numerous reasons for this but you will need the bigger picture.
Plummeting salaries and conditions are not down to sellouts accepting lower wages, its down to a dire economic situation by which employers with falling profits are forced to put the squeeze on their workers. Also each job has hundreds of applicants which k-bosses can sift through. Only the blondest survive.
Your idea that homeless people should reject offers of 2.0 on principle and continue eating from garbage cans and living in mommies basement- only for that job opening to be snapped up by one of the hundre4d other applicants who will accept it..is disingenuous.
In case you hadn't noticed, market forces rule and each person does what they can afford. Blaming individual people for the fact that it is an employers market won't help matters.
| Quote: |
| Plus, let's not forget those who are really driving the salaries down- illegal teachers. This article may be a few years old but it shows you the sheer numbers of those teaching illegally |
Agreed, but who made those figures? Paranoid kimmi statisticians.
To them, anyone on a tourist or student visa is doubtless illegally teaching privates. They just can't believe that anyone in their right mind would want to visit here for genuine tourist reasons. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Some good economic news out of the U.S.:
| Quote: |
| The United States economy ended 2012 on a surprisingly sound note as factory output increased and low inflation lifted the buying power of consumers |
| Quote: |
| Construction on new properties rose in December at the fastest clip in four years and the sale of new homes in the last month of 2012 is likely to remain at a two-and-a-half-year high. What�s more, existing homes are selling at their strongest pace in three years. |
| Quote: |
�There couldn�t be a better time for housing to kick in,� said senior economist Ryan Sweet of Moody�s Analytics. �Overall 2013 is going to be a very good year.�
The pickup in construction in 2012 allowed the housing industry to add to U.S. growth for the first time since 2006. And housing could contribute even more in 2013 � perhaps as much as 20% of overall U.S. growth.
That would be a big plus, giving the U.S. a solid underpinning, and the nation could expand even faster if other engines of the economy rev up. |
The (inaccurate) perception that the world economy is in ruins is a big part of what is driving down wages in Korea. Did you know the people most impacted by the recession were the least educated? Did you know unemployment for whites was always in the in single digits? Did you know the greatest number of jobs lost was in the construction industry?
Unless you want to increase competition for yourself and speed the decline of wages and conditions for Western teachers in Korea, stop claiming there are no jobs to be found in the West. That simply isn't true.
| PRagic wrote: |
| There was just a comment in the NY Times from a manufacturer who wanted to hire 15 workers but couldn't get any takers. People had figured out that with the current unemployment tax credits and extended benefits, it was more worthwhile to NOT work. And those were no 11 bucks an hour jobs! |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| World Traveler wrote: |
| The (inaccurate) perception that the world economy is in ruins is a big part of what is driving down wages in Korea. |
What is driving down wages and conditions in Korea is the glut of applicants that has escalated since 2009.
What is driving this glut is the poor economic situation of western nations- the US, Canada, UK, Ireland, etc.
A simple misperception of recession would not be enough to spur a mass invasion of Korea. Its reality. Market forces are the best indicator of reality, and they're massively in favor of employers right now. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Here are some E2 stats:
| Quote: |
1999 - 5,009
2000 - 6,414
2001 - 8,388
2002 - 10,864
2003 - 11,344
2004 - 11,296
2005 - 12,439
2006 - 15,001
2007 - 17,721
2008 - 19,771
2009 - 22,642
2010 - 23,317 |
Know the numbers for 2011 and 2012? I don't, but I'm guessing they went up, just like the years before it.
UK unemployment falls dramatically
| Quote: |
| Britain's unemployment rate has shrunk by the biggest quarterly amount in more than a decade, with a record number of people working, official data showed. |
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2012/12/201212121404345361.html
Canada's unemployment rate drops to 4-year low
| Quote: |
| OTTAWA -- The Canadian economy created 40,000 jobs in December -- all of it in full-time work -- and drove the unemployment rate to its lowest in four years, Statistics Canada said Friday. |
http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/canada-s-unemployment-rate-drops-to-4-year-low-1.1100775
| Quote: |
| "We've seen pretty good numbers in four of the last five months, so it does look like there is a bit of strength percolating up late in 2012," said Doug Porter, the Bank of Montreal's deputy chief economist. |
U.S. unemployment rolls see lowest month in almost 5 years
| Quote: |
WASHINGTON � The average number of people seeking unemployment benefits in the United States over the past month fell to the lowest level since March 2008, a sign that the job market is healing.
The Labor Department says weekly applications dropped 12,000 to a seasonally adjusted 350,000 in the week ended Dec. 22. The four-week average, a less volatile measure, fell to a nearly five-year low of 356,750. |
http://www.ipolitics.ca/2012/12/27/u-s-unemployment-rolls-see-lowest-month-in-almost-5-years/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
globusmonkey
Joined: 19 Aug 2011
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'd like to weigh in, speaking as a trained teacher who has followed ESL for over a decade before finally making the plunge. The trend of higher numbers of job-seekers in this industry has little to do with perceptions of job availability in Western countries and more to do with the inability of the average graduate to easily find work in an interesting, attractive job that offers the same benefits as a graduate of twenty years prior would have found. It is not employment numbers that one should look at, but quality of jobs available. The job market in the West has steadily been manipulated downward towards the global market average, as economies around the world have opened. The downward slouch of the middle class in classically Western countries like the US and Britain is inversely related to the upward strides that the working and professional classes have made in newly developed countries such as Korea. This zero-sum game makes it more unlikely that college graduates in Kalamazoo will find an easy opening in a well-paying, middle class job. The better paying jobs go to the specialized, and those who majored in uneconomically sound fields have lower paying choices, with little room for on-the-job training and long-term advancement to traditionally middle class lifestyles. Therefore, why not take a few years and work in a field that offers adventure, free airfare and accommodation, and no previous work experience? This is also linked to the fairly recent acceptance of later-in-life career starts, and the glamorization of living abroad, no matter that the reality of drinking and hooking up in another country is often as mundane as it is for those who stay at home.
The entire global work force is undergoing the changes that were seen in the big modernization/commercialization pushes of Europe and the States half a century ago, and this has been happening for some time. The reality is that things are so much easier now that many can just hop a plane and have a reasonably well-paying job in a matter of a month or two, no matter if you are qualified to teach or not. There is no simple explanation why; it is just plain-old incredibly interconnected and complex socio-political-economics. That being said, if you want to sustain a career in this interesting industry, make yourself valuable, just like any other job. Those who can do that will quickly work themselves out of the entry-level hagwons and succeed in what they choose to accomplish. Those who don't will have a story to tell their grandkids after their inevitable shift ends at the cubicle farm.
Thanks for listening. Now, back to my glass of overpriced scotch... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Evanzinho
Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Location: California
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| globusmonkey wrote: |
Thanks for listening. Now, back to my glass of overpriced scotch... |
Excellent post. This is probably the best explaination of why so many college graduates decide to go abroad to teach English. Also may explain why more and more people are deciding to stay abroad permanetly.
We need to be looking at the quality of jobs being created in our home countries, not the quantity.
Again, fantastic post. Much better than just cutting and pasting lines from newspaper articles to make your point. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="World Traveler"]UK unemployment falls dramatically
Putting arguments about how unemployment and inflation in the UK is measured aside, if you scratch beneath the seemingly positive statistics the picture in the UK is truly dire.
- Real (median) wages have been falling for 6 years (this statistic is probably considerably worse with regards to the mode income and the dubious way in which inflation in the UK has been measured)
- There is a record number of people working part-time (many of whom want full-time jobs)
- Jobs density is at its lowest for at least 15 years (5-6 people chasing every vacancy). This statistic is unlikely to improve as Britain opens its labour market to Romania and Bulgaria within a year.
- Underemployment (i.e. people who are overqualified for their job) characterises much of the UK's labour market
- Housing costs (demand will continue to massively outstrip supply until at least 2015) and incredibly high levels of indirect taxation will continue to act as a restraint on wages |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Why would Britain be opening up its labor market to Romania and Bulgaria? To get skills and talent lacking within its borders...or out of the goodness of its heart?
|
Because they have to. Unless they get out of the EEC. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
naturegirl321
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Home sweet home
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
Why would Britain be opening up its labor market to Romania and Bulgaria? To get skills and talent lacking within its borders...or out of the goodness of its heart?
|
Because they have to. Unless they get out of the EEC. |
Not really. They didn't have to let them in right away. Don't get me started on Romania. They lied to get into the EU, falsified docs left and right, made promises they couldn't keep and are now going back on them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
