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Grammar Question from CoT

 
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Poker



Joined: 16 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 11:52 pm    Post subject: Grammar Question from CoT Reply with quote

Hi, please share your thoughts on this, thank you.
Which one is correct and why? If all 3 are correct, in what context is each one used?

�It was the first time he felt someone really listened to what he had to say."


"It was the first time he felt someone really listen to what he had to say."


"It was the first time he felt someone really listening to what he had to say."
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YTMND



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will number them.

1. �It was the first time he felt someone really listened to what he had to say."

2. "It was the first time he felt someone really listen to what he had to say."

3. "It was the first time he felt someone really listening to what he had to say."



2 is wrong because it talks about a past event (but we probably hear it in normal conversation from natives).
1 is more complete, it won't happen again. It is referring to a singular event.
3 is specifying something that is possible to happen in the future again, it is lending itself to a repeat event.
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are all correct, but context is everything.


1 is the normal way we would say it in conversation. Talking about a past event.

I believe 2 is subjunctive, (but I may be wrong).

Even so, number 2 is a kind of literary sentence. Probably not

used in everyday language, but perhaps in a kind of narrative story.

3 is similar in usage to number 1, but the emphasis is on the action of

'listening'.
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waynehead



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Location: Jongno

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are all correct, the nuance simply changes.
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ontheway



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All three are correct.
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YTMND



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How is 2 grammatically correct?

My understanding is that "felt" is the verb, therefore you need "ing" for "listening".

I am only reacting out of instinct. I don't know the rule.
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big_fella1



Joined: 08 Dec 2005

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My gut feeling is they're all strange.

I usually check my grammar questions with a Korean, they know the rules far better than I do, although I do know how to apply them better. Smile
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some waygug-in



Joined: 25 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Number 2 is something you might hear in a narrated documentary,

where the speaker is narrating some events in the main character's

life.


I think what is confusing about it is that it does not follow strict grammatical

forms.

Prescriptive grammar would say;

It would be the first time he felt someone really listen to what he had to say.

but in modern usage it comes out as;

It was the first time he felt someone really listen to what he had to say.
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transmogrifier



Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Location: Seoul, South Korea

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YTMND wrote:
How is 2 grammatically correct?

My understanding is that "felt" is the verb, therefore you need "ing" for "listening".

I am only reacting out of instinct. I don't know the rule.


It's no different from something like "He saw her go"
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The Cosmic Hum



Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

transmogrifier wrote:
YTMND wrote:
How is 2 grammatically correct?

My understanding is that "felt" is the verb, therefore you need "ing" for "listening".

I am only reacting out of instinct. I don't know the rule.


It's no different from something like "He saw her go"


Actually, it is a little different than this, but this is a good example to demonstrate the flexibility in this type of structure.

"It was the first time he felt someone really listen to what he had to say."
As a complex sentence
It was the first time - independent clause
(that) he felt someone really listen -dependent that clause
...listen to..infinitive structure
...what he had to say - dependent noun clause.

On the time line....there are several overlaps...depending on how you interpret this sentence.

YTMND...you are correct on a particular grammar aspect that encourages 'ing' with the preceding verb.

But as Transmogrifier shows...there can be several uses to any given verb...and time is important.

Is 'felt' a clearly past event...or is it still happening?
The various clause structures allow for several overlaping interpretations.

If we just focus on the dependent that clause. As a complex sentence.
He felt someone listened. (Past) He felt that someone listened.
Complex sentence -
He felt - independent clause
that someone listened. - dependent clause.

As a simple independent clause. (simple sentence)
He felt someone listen. (Past/Present...it occurred but is still in the moment...though not listening right at that moment.)
He felt someone listening. ( Past/present...and listening now.)

As some waygug-in has mentioned...the use of narrative voice also makes all three possible.

Transmogrifiers example.
He saw her go. (she left...she's gone)
He saw her going. (she is still going...not completely gone yet.)
Assuming of course that go means leaving...and not...well...number 1 or 2 kinda thing. Wink

Hope this is useful.
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