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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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 Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| Troglodyte wrote: |
| YTMND wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I wonder what advice other runners could give him to get him a job? Former runners chime in for him please? |
His failure to obtain a job is his own doing. He wants all potential employers and recruiters to know about this runner. When advised to go in person he seems to not like this idea. In addition, he was doing privates on the side. His pronunciation and photo must be real good to trump others who aren't telling recruiters and schools about their "extracurricular" activities 
I would certainly go to Korea and meet with schools in person. Explaining the situation during an interview, if asked, would be much better than writing some anonymous letter saying that you pulled a runner. |
I suspect that there's more to it that he's not telling us... |
This could be. We only have one side of the story. Hundreds of people have come back after runners. Immigration generally doesn't care.
However, when more serious issues about a teacher are reported to Immigration they will make note of them, keep them on file and they will give notice to a school about them. In extreme cases Immigration will deny a visa based on such information, at least until the information has been refuted.
As to the OP, it's more likely he just needs to find a different job, present himself well and he can get his visa. |
What situation could cause this? I mean any hogwon with bitterness their employee left could make up some lie for revenge. He was drunk, he had sex with a student, etc... Would immigration actually report this or wait until there were some kind of police charges as proof? Let's hope that K Immi doesn't just go along with hearsay because that would be pretty disturbing. |
Once more, the OP did not get his visa denied by Kimmi. His potential employer refused to sponsor his visa due to his previous employer and his running out on them. If the employer refuses to sponsor you, your visa is dead in the water and that has nothing to do with Kimmi. |
The school refused to sponsor the visa based on information supplied by Immigration.
Immigration has information on file about some teachers. In some cases they do and say nothing. In some cases they pass the information on to the school that wants to hire the teacher - hiring is up to the school (the OP's case). In some cases they warn the school in advance that the teacher will be rejected, so the school doesn't go through with the application and saves the fee, and in some cases the application is filed and Immigration declines the application. |
Kimmi asks on the visa form if you visited Korea before and why. They will then check (routine) for previous visas.
At the end of the day the OPs visa was not turned down by kimmi, the employer pulled back and did not wish to sponsor the visa after having talked to the previous employer.
You know this happens all the time and previous employment history should not be hidden in the hopes it slides under the radar. Far better to be up front about it and explain what happened.
Kimmi will not care one iota if a person left before their contract was up. As long as the previous visa was cancelled, its smooth sailing on that front.
An employer however might not react very well to a surprise like "oh wait I DID work in Korea before but broke my contract" after they have engaged in the hiring process.
Being up front will avoid this even if it may make securing a job a bit of a longer process.
As the OP himself said:
| Quote: |
- My school contacted me saying that there has been a hold up in the E2 VISA process.
- Immigration will issue my VISA issuance number, however they also informed my prospective employers about my previous record in South Korea.
- Finding out about this, they contacted me asking me to explain.
- I explained everything and they contacted my previous employer and recruiter. (Of course, these are the same characters that did not pay me my wages, abused me in the work place and threatened me with physical violence upon leaving my job early).
- I imagine they called me every name under the sun and now my school has taken back the offer and cut contact with me. |
So there you have it, the previous visa was a matter of record, not a whim of kimmi. The employer pulled out and left the OP flapping in the wind which is very unfortunate. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| Being up front will avoid this even if it may make securing a job a bit of a longer process. |
Yea, for the hagwon owner that will nickel and dime you. You really want to work for one of those? |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| Troglodyte wrote: |
| YTMND wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I wonder what advice other runners could give him to get him a job? Former runners chime in for him please? |
His failure to obtain a job is his own doing. He wants all potential employers and recruiters to know about this runner. When advised to go in person he seems to not like this idea. In addition, he was doing privates on the side. His pronunciation and photo must be real good to trump others who aren't telling recruiters and schools about their "extracurricular" activities
I would certainly go to Korea and meet with schools in person. Explaining the situation during an interview, if asked, would be much better than writing some anonymous letter saying that you pulled a runner. |
I suspect that there's more to it that he's not telling us... |
This could be. We only have one side of the story. Hundreds of people have come back after runners. Immigration generally doesn't care.
However, when more serious issues about a teacher are reported to Immigration they will make note of them, keep them on file and they will give notice to a school about them. In extreme cases Immigration will deny a visa based on such information, at least until the information has been refuted.
As to the OP, it's more likely he just needs to find a different job, present himself well and he can get his visa. |
What situation could cause this? I mean any hogwon with bitterness their employee left could make up some lie for revenge. He was drunk, he had sex with a student, etc... Would immigration actually report this or wait until there were some kind of police charges as proof? Let's hope that K Immi doesn't just go along with hearsay because that would be pretty disturbing. |
Once more, the OP did not get his visa denied by Kimmi. His potential employer refused to sponsor his visa due to his previous employer and his running out on them. If the employer refuses to sponsor you, your visa is dead in the water and that has nothing to do with Kimmi. |
The school refused to sponsor the visa based on information supplied by Immigration.
Immigration has information on file about some teachers. In some cases they do and say nothing. In some cases they pass the information on to the school that wants to hire the teacher - hiring is up to the school (the OP's case). In some cases they warn the school in advance that the teacher will be rejected, so the school doesn't go through with the application and saves the fee, and in some cases the application is filed and Immigration declines the application. |
Kimmi asks on the visa form if you visited Korea before and why. They will then check (routine) for previous visas.
At the end of the day the OPs visa was not turned down by kimmi, the employer pulled back and did not wish to sponsor the visa after having talked to the previous employer.
You know this happens all the time and previous employment history should not be hidden in the hopes it slides under the radar. Far better to be up front about it and explain what happened.
Kimmi will not care one iota if a person left before their contract was up. As long as the previous visa was cancelled, its smooth sailing on that front.
An employer however might not react very well to a surprise like "oh wait I DID work in Korea before but broke my contract" after they have engaged in the hiring process.
Being up front will avoid this even if it may make securing a job a bit of a longer process.
As the OP himself said:
| Quote: |
- My school contacted me saying that there has been a hold up in the E2 VISA process.
- Immigration will issue my VISA issuance number, however they also informed my prospective employers about my previous record in South Korea.
- Finding out about this, they contacted me asking me to explain.
- I explained everything and they contacted my previous employer and recruiter. (Of course, these are the same characters that did not pay me my wages, abused me in the work place and threatened me with physical violence upon leaving my job early).
- I imagine they called me every name under the sun and now my school has taken back the offer and cut contact with me. |
So there you have it, the previous visa was a matter of record, not a whim of kimmi. The employer pulled out and left the OP flapping in the wind which is very unfortunate. |
Of course it was the employer that chose not to hire the OP, but it was Immigration that brought the matter to the attention of the employer. This is the important point. For any prospective E2 teacher: You cannot hide your past from a future employer since, if Immigration is aware of any adverse information, they may report that information to your future bosses or deny your visa based on that information.
| the OP wrote: |
| Immigration will issue my VISA issuance number, however they also informed my prospective employers about my previous record in South Korea. |
Immigration has information on file about some teachers:
* In some cases they do and say nothing.
* In some cases they pass the information on to the school that wants to hire the teacher - the hiring decision is up to the school (the OP's case).
* In some cases they warn the school in advance that the teacher will be rejected, so the school can choose not to file the application and save the fee, which also saves work for Immigration, and
* In some cases the application is filed, the school is not warned, and Immigration declines the application. |
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UncleAlex
Joined: 04 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:07 am Post subject: Re: A sad end to my "Returning after a midnight run& |
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| stew1988 wrote: |
Hello guys. If you've read some of my previous posts, you will find out that I have been trying to get back in to South Korea following a previous midnight run...I'll give you a brief overview so you get the idea...
- Ran away from Korea because I was being treated like an animal. (Two choices, stay and give up basic human rights or leave and start afresh). Of course, the restrictive nature of the E2 makes Korea a breeding ground for events like this and I'm sure many of you have done or encountered somebody who has done something similar.
- Being married to a Korean, myself and my wife faced many troubles. We returned to the UK and everything was hopeless. No matter what way we looked at it, she could not find work and needed to finish her education back in Korea in order to ever achieve anything in life.
- I set my sights on getting back in to Korea and teaching again. I have nothing against Korea as a country and the people, well I respect them as much as anybody else in the world. Some advised on getting an F2, but we could not meet the financial requirements.
So, I decided to go back and here's what I did...
1. Got all my documents together. This took up the last of my money essentially so I was putting all my eggs in one basket.
2. I applied through recruiters but eventually decided to find something off my own back. I found an adult position and everything was in place. They liked me, my professional and academic references were immaculate, my police check was clean. The interview went well and soon after the sending off documents process began.
3. I told them that I taught privately in Korea before, but I did not tell them that I worked for a school or was issued an E2. Some people on the forums told me to be transparent with employers and i completely understand why. Unfortunately that is the double edged sword of it all. If I tell them that I had to do a midnight run, regardless of the reasoning, they will throw me out the window and go onto candidate number two. The ones that will look twice at me are the desperate acts that will most likely treat me like an animal once again...it's a nasty catch 22.
4. I contacted immigration in Korea and they told me that I would be able to go back, however I "may encounter difficulties". From what they told me and what I researched, I could return as long as my VISA is cancelled and I did not commit any criminal acts. I didn't and my VISA is indeed cancelled.
Here is the unfortunate and quite frankly devastating outcome for me...
- My school contacted me saying that there has been a hold up in the E2 VISA process.
- Immigration will issue my VISA issuance number, however they also informed my prospective employers about my previous record in South Korea.
- Finding out about this, they contacted me asking me to explain.
- I explained everything and they contacted my previous employer and recruiter. (Of course, these are the same characters that did not pay me my wages, abused me in the work place and threatened me with physical violence upon leaving my job early).
- I imagine they called me every name under the sun and now my school has taken back the offer and cut contact with me.
- My documents will not be returned, I'm here in the UK and my partner is in Korea and I have no money.
I just wanted to let people know because the question often comes up..."can I return to South Korea after a Midnight Run"...there is no one single answer to this. YES you can, however you may be forced into returning to the same ordeal once again because of your history in the country. There is no scope for common sense and you will always be judged on your time in South Korea. This period will always be perceived as the most important factor, irrespective of your professional and academic background.
I hope this may help anybody who is thinking of returning. Of course, if anyone has any questions just let me know and I'll try and give some advice.
Cheers. |
A midnight run is not a criminal offence. It's a civil issue between the employer and employee. I taught in Korea for 15 years and met teachers who were legally employed after they had done the midnight run. They got their new jobs after their previous visas formally expired and they no longer needed a release letter.
Last edited by UncleAlex on Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:16 am; edited 7 times in total |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:12 am Post subject: Re: A sad end to my "Returning after a midnight run& |
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| UncleAlex wrote: |
Your visa was cancelled, but did you apply for the new position before the visa would have normally expired? If so you would need a release letter. That's all immigration is concerned about apart from any crime you may have committed. A midnight run is not a criminal offence. It's a civil issue between the employer and employee. I taught in Korea for 15 years and met teachers who were legally employed after they had done the midnight run. They got their new jobs after their previous visas formally expired and they no longer needed a release letter. |
The OP's problem may not be his midnight run.
The problem could be other information in his file at Immigration. We do not know what that information may be nor who obtained or provided that information nor whether it is true or not. |
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stew1988
Joined: 04 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Having corresponded with YBM, I decided to call immigration directly and find out what the issue is and also to ask them about my E2 documents.
- The immigration officer at Incheon spoke to me and he told me what happened. It's a case of my previous school filing a complaint (he didn't know the details of the complaint) and the immigration informing YBM. YBM called my old employers and told immigration not to continue with processing my VISA.
- I asked about whether I can have my documents back and he said no. He said that immigration will keep the documents for their own records. Nothing I can do but get new documents again...
- I said "can I apply again". He said yes, but next time make sure your future employer knows about what happened in the past, that way I should have no problem. He apologized for my situation.
So, that phone call was good and bad. Terrible news with regards to my documents, however at least now I know for sure that there is not problem in terms on immigration letting me in. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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There you go...it was NOT a kimmi issue....
Good luck OP. |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| it was NOT a kimmi issue |
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| It's a case of my previous school filing a complaint |
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| He said yes, but next time make sure your future employer knows about what happened in the past |
Sure sounds like an kimmi issue. If you had a problem with a school, that is between you and the school. Immigration shouldn't get involved, but here they are telling the teacher to inform them of something related to the complaint.
What was it that would make kimmi need to hold on to this information? And is it only Incheon immigration? I bet a case of kimchi (do they come in cases?) and soju that if the teacher went to a different immigration office, they wouldn't have the same issue. |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
There you go...it was NOT a kimmi issue....
Good luck OP. |
How many times has ttompatz reassured people that making a midnight run was no big deal? All the huffing and puffing from the employer was just that - huffing and puffing. How many of us know someone who has pulled a run only to come back a few weeks or months later without incident? THEN, how many of us know someone who has pulled a run only to be ratted out by immigration when they returned?
Long story short - I don't buy it at all. |
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stew1988
Joined: 04 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:19 am Post subject: |
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Ttompatz is very helpful and is one of the few people to offer advice worth listening to. That being said, he is not an omnipotent figure whose advice is designed to categorize every single Midnight Run.
If my employer wanted to say certain things to immigration, they can do just that. Whilst it is true that most will not do anything in particular and people will slink back in without any trouble, this does not always have to be the rule of thumb. Who is to say the same school and recruiter that threatened me with violence upon leaving my contract early are not in fact the type of people to be vindictive at immigration?
The school have no power to blacklist me from ever getting an E2 VISA. In order to do such a thing, I would have to have committed some kind of crime that had in some way been proven. They are merely telling my prospective employer that I did in fact leave a previous contract early and giving them my previous schools contact details.
Thanks Patrick for constantly trying to enlighten these characters, but quite frankly, I'd have more luck conversing with a brick wall.
So... I would like to draw a line under the lot of it now if possible. I thank everybody that has tried to help me with my situation and also for the best wishes. I really appreciate it and it's been a great way for me to discuss my situation with other people and release some of my feelings otherwise difficult to discuss with my real world friends. I'm sorry that some people view these types of threads as an opportunity to poke fun, make assumptions, be extremely rude about personal issues and vent some form of Online anger that obviously stems from an otherwise unsatisfactory existence.
Cheers,
Stew. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| Did you arrive in Korea yet? |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| This was just a research project on sympathy and spousal separation. The original poster is actually a PhD in some psychology department. |
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stew1988
Joined: 04 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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I do indeed have an update on my situation, I can't say that it's a happy one though. I'd appreciate it if people would refrain from judging my comments to follow based on their current beliefs about Korean immigration and "the system"...
- As you know, YBM refused to go ahead with the E2 and I was left in the dark and unable to reclaim my documents. I called Incheon immigration and the immigration officer advised me to next time tell the truth from the outset and avoid any shocks for the prospective employer. He reiterated that it was not a rejection from immigration themselves.
So I paid to get all my documents again and I found a school willing to hire me. The Director was very open minded and he understood my situation. I provided him with Korean character references and past employment references from other jobs. He was content and he enabled me to talk to current members of staff etc...
I sent my documents out to him and all looked good. I had an employer backing me, knowing the whole truth. Then, to my horror, he emails me saying that Immigration have declined to give me the E2 VISA number. He visited them on a number of occasions telling them that he already knows the situation, but they still refuse to give the visa number. The immigration talked to the old school and they called me all the names under the sun. My prospective director then told me to write a letter of explanation. I did this and translated it into Korean too. He took it down to immigration but they still refused to bend on it...
My prospective boss cannot do anymore for me. He tells me that immigration in Ansan discovered that I reapplied to Incheon and was rejected the E2. Apparently this went against our case. Furthermore, he told me that the man in charge of my case was fairly new to the job and thus more strict and clinical with the decision. He doesn't understand why they are only willing to accept and hear one side of the story, but simply attributes it to each immigration office having their own set of rules...
So here I am...the second application having fallen through. Life is a bit of a nightmare to be honest at the moment, but I'm not going to bore you with the gory details, I just wanted to update the situation. I got the number from my prospective boss of the direct number to reach the man in charge of my case...my wife will call him today and try to explain my situation to him in more depth and essentially plead my case (seeing as his English is not good at all)...I doubt very much that he will bend and I am not sure whether a rejection can even be turned into acceptance?
Once again, cheers for the advice on my situation. It seems that a lot of it is about pot luck, and luck isn't one of the things I have too much of at the moment. |
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swinewho
Joined: 17 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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So here I am...the second application having fallen through. Life is a bit of a nightmare to be honest at the moment, but I'm not going to bore you with the gory details, I just wanted to update the situation. I got the number from my prospective boss of the direct number to reach the man in charge of my case...my wife will call him today and try to explain my situation to him in more depth and essentially plead my case (seeing as his English is not good at all)...I doubt very much that he will bend and I am not sure whether a rejection can even be turned into acceptance?
Once again, cheers for the advice on my situation. It seems that a lot of it is about pot luck, and luck isn't one of the things I have too much of at the moment. |
One thing you should know about Korea by now, is that nothing is set in stone!
Unless the school is saying that you've touched kids or something super bad like that then you've got every chance of the decision being overturned - your g/f has just got to be persistant and keep going 'up the ladder' until you both get the answer you want......
If I were you i'd want to know the EXACT things my ex schoo lsaid about me and I would want them in writing from immi, she could then take this documented proof with her - if it's all just words over the phone it gets more complicated and difficult to record/appeal....
I'm (guessing) you are entitled to see/have a copy of immigrations files/info on you, if I were you I would be requesting a copy! |
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YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Go in person to immigration with a new employer and don't leave the window until they either get the visa number process started or explain exactly why you are being denied.
Don't do this by phone.
Don't do this by email.
Don't do this in another room.
Do it in person staring the immigration officer in the face. Find out what is going on. |
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