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"We don't need you to do that." -Trayvon Martin Ca
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We were taught this lesson a long time ago. It's called "Radio Raheem Did Not Have to Die".

Neither did Trayvon Martin.

There may or may not be a racial component in this case. For all we know Zimmerman might just be a wannabe justice nut and would have gone after some white skater kid.

But the point is that he had no business escalating this incident and the investigation was a complete mockery.
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northway



Joined: 05 Jul 2010

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swampfox10mm wrote:
Could have been that he was jumped. Could have been that he started it and was losing out. We don't know.


And more than likely, we never will. That said, Zimmerman as the aggressor seems far more likely, given the circumstances. It would be awfully random for a kid with no history of violence (as far as we know) to turn around and beat the crap out of a guy. Motive is significantly more clear if Zimmerman was the first to make the confrontation physical.
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Rteacher



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on the 911 calls and the fact that the 140 lb. black teenager carried only Skittles and iced tea while his 200 + lb. stalker, Zimmerman, (good thing Bob Dylan changed his name) was armed with a 9 mm semi-automatic gun, it is evident that the killing was clearly unnecessary and that racial prejudice and/or stereotyping was involved.

Of course, Republicans feel obliged (to their NRA donors) to extend the "rights" of people like Zimmerman to perpetrate similar unnecessary acts involving lethal weaponry... http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/22/449966/senate-gop-want-george-zimmerman-to-be-able-to-carry-a-concealed-weapon-in-nearly-every-state/?mobile=nc

Although Zimmerman's defenders will no doubt find some positive things to say about him, the character sketch that emerges from statements of those close to the young person he killed suggests that justice has not been well served in this case (so far...) http://www.jamestownsun.com/event/article/id/157296/group/News/
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northway



Joined: 05 Jul 2010

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rteacher wrote:
Based on the 911 calls and the fact that the 140 lb. black teenager carried only Skittles and iced tea while his 200 + lb. stalker, Zimmerman, (good thing Bob Dylan changed his name) was armed with a 9 mm semi-automatic gun, it is evident that the killing was clearly unnecessary and that racial prejudice and/or stereotyping was involved.


I'm by no means a Zimmerman defender, but I wouldn't say that it's perfectly clear that there was racial prejudice involved. Zimmerman might well have acted similarly to a similarly dressed white kid.
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comm



Joined: 22 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rteacher wrote:
Although Zimmerman's defenders will no doubt find some positive things to say about him, the character sketch that emerges from statements of those close to the young person he killed suggests that justice has not been well served in this case (so far...)

Fortunately for Zimmerman, one of his defenders witnessed him being attacked and yelling for help. I always hate it when people get riled up over an issue in the justice system before all the facts are out. They end up looking pretty foolish when their media-fueled outrage gives way to reality.
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Swampfox10mm



Joined: 24 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We now have some updated photos of both Martin and Zimmerman.

http://whatthehayell.com/2012/03/24/images-circulating-complicate-trayvon-martin-case/

Interesting how photos can influence feelings. The media knows this, and it is why we have been looking at a mug shot of Zimmerman and a childhood photo of Martin.

Still think Zimm should get 10 to 20 for manslaughter and the local police should be investigated.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

comm wrote:
Rteacher wrote:
Although Zimmerman's defenders will no doubt find some positive things to say about him, the character sketch that emerges from statements of those close to the young person he killed suggests that justice has not been well served in this case (so far...)

Fortunately for Zimmerman, one of his defenders witnessed him being attacked and yelling for help. I always hate it when people get riled up over an issue in the justice system before all the facts are out. They end up looking pretty foolish when their media-fueled outrage gives way to reality.


Yeah, I think this is entirely possible.

But, does it change things in your (anyone's) mind?

I already presumed a confrontation took place... and during any confrontation, the upper hand can change a few times - but to me something is crucial; who brought about the confrontation?
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geldedgoat



Joined: 05 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New Black Panthers offer $10K reward for Zimmerman

“An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. … If the government won’t do the job, we’ll do it,” NBPP leader Mikhail Muhammad said during a protest in Sanford, Fla.

Spike Lee tweeted Zimmerman's address.

I saw the Spike Lee thing on the (TV) news and tried to find a good article about it. The best I could scrounge up was the above, however I did run across this while searching...

Spike Lee Skips Million Hoodie March To Watch Knicks After Hyping Trayvon Martin Rally All Day

Oh, Hollywood... you crack me up.
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ED209



Joined: 17 Oct 2006

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is more the inaction of the law rather than the actions of Zimmerman that are most shocking.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Zimmerman...you're part of the Neighborhood Watch, not the Neighborhood Confront While Packing Heat.

I'm sorry, but confronting someone for being on your turf who ain't from there and is dressed the wrong way, isn't that the very mentality of the gangbangers this guy is so against? Now, I've come out in favor of vigilante justice in the past, but that's as part of the respectable community acting together to preserve their well-being against an obviously guilty party. Unless eating Skittles and drinking iced tea while walking through are crimes, this Zimmerman fool had no basis for being confrontational.

Seriously, in this case Neighborhood Watch seems like he was the same as "Street Corner Lookout" with a chip on his shoulder to match.

Also while the crime may or may not have been racially motivated (these gun-ho testosterone balls like to get in anyone's face), the response shows racial attitudes.

If the victim was white there might have been a small kefluffle, maybe a big one if the anti-gun lobby made a stink. Certainly though the guy would have been taken down to the cop shop and made to go through the wringer.

If Zimmerman was black and it was in a black neighborhood it would be on page A7 while "Mad Men" would get some front page write up.
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Swampfox10mm



Joined: 24 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An interesting true story in this about a very similar situation happening, but the shooter was black and the dead person white:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/03/what_if_trayvon_had_been_white_and_the_shooter_black.html


Also, some more recent photos of Martin being circulated, which don't make him look so young:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/imgly_production/3745952/large.jpg

Nice touch of gold on the teeth, btw:
http://whatthehayell.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/tray1.jpg


http://moonbattery.com/george-zimmerman_trayvon-martin_media-bias.jpg
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Swampfox10mm



Joined: 24 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't link to it, because it's a private story area on a blog in the USA (which is also blocked outside of the USA), but Massad Ayoob, a respected gun writer/police officer wrote that the gun used was a Kel-Tec PF9, and that one shot was fired but the gun failed to cycle the next round. He said that generally, that is indicative of a possible struggle for the gun, since the gun didn't cycle back enough to expel the shell in the chamber and chamber a new round. Powder burns and/or cuts would also show up on Martin's hand if this is indeed the case. That could add some new twists to the story.

Massad also mentioned that toxicology reports on Martin are closed, and no one will know those until later. He suggested that if anyone were in situation where they had to use a gun in self-defense, it would be smart to head to the hospital and request blood work done simply to prove later that you had nothing in your system (something Zimmerman didn't do). It was also mentioned that police would have noticed if Zimmerman were under the influence of drugs or alcohol, just as they would have if someone had been stopped at a traffic stop.

Another story I read, also written by a cop, says that their dispatchers are trained to get more information... as much as possible, actually... like color of the person in question, clothing, etc.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to see the transcripts from the Zimmerman call.

The versions I've seen online seem to have him listing 'suspicious' attributes about the young man... and including being black as one of them.

But I could see that being part of editing. Anyone see the whole transcript somewhere?
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bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably not many of you are aware of this story. It doesn't fit the 'narrative.'

‘You Get What You Deserve, White Boy’: 13-Year-Old Set on Fire in Horrific Racially Charged Attack

Police in Kansas City are investigating a possible hate crime after a 13-year-old boy was doused in gasoline and set on fire. According to Allen Goin’s mother, the attack occurred just as her son was getting home from school. She said, “They rushed him on the porch as he tried to get the door open…one of them poured gasoline, then flicked the Bic and said, ‘This is what you deserve. You get what you deserve white boy.’”


http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/you-get-what-you-deserve-white-boy-13-year-old-set-on-fire-in-horrific-racially-charged-attack/question-2499549/
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Swampfox10mm



Joined: 24 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
I'd like to see the transcripts from the Zimmerman call.

The versions I've seen online seem to have him listing 'suspicious' attributes about the young man... and including being black as one of them.

But I could see that being part of editing. Anyone see the whole transcript somewhere?


The most interesting things I've heard about it involve comments from police officers on the police section of a chat board I enjoy.

One police officer stated that their dispatchers are trained to get information much like Zimmerman gave it. They want to know race, clothing, speed of movement, etc. Zimmerman did attend some neighborhood watch training, I believe. I'm sure he was told that this is how he was trained to respond and had probably done so many times.

Does that make him racist?


As far as I see it, because so many people are bent out of shape that Zimmerman followed the kid and approached him is indicative of our society's growing hatred of authority. They don't feel it's "OK" for someone to approach them (or anyone else) to determine what they are doing is OK. Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch guy in a gated community. There was nothing illegal or wrong with him approaching and asking why the kid was there. Nothing.

What was illegal was when someone got into a fight based on said discussion. I truly believe that there are many people out there who want to feel they have the right to start a fight/explode/cry racist rather than have to answer to someone for what they are doing. They WANT the ability to punch someone out for having the audacity to question why they are somewhere (keep in mind, this is a private, gated community, too). And the whole idea that someone might have a gun and shoot them as a reaction to their outburst scares the hell out of these people.

I am slowly beginning to believe that this is what happened here. I don't think Zimmerman just up and attacked the kid. I think the kid was so appauled by this white guy asking him what he was doing there that he went off on him (either immediately, or shortly thereafter). Trayvon probably hit him, was on top of him, Zimmerman yelled for help (there is a witness to this, btw), and a struggle began for Zimmerman's gun. Zimmerman won that struggle, and the kid will have powder burns and/or cuts on his hands to prove he had hold of it.

We truly don't know who started the fight... although it seems at least one witness pegs Martin as the one who did it -- ON CAMERA (from behind a door), yet the mainstream media refuses to show it and has all but avoided referencing it. That person isn't talking to anyone now, the media is doing it's best to ignore he ever existed, and we just won't know any more until the court gets moving on it next month.

Which brings up another point. There is a certain time issue between when Zimmerman ended the call and when the attack happened that has not been accounted for or discussed. I have a feeling that will be a central issue.
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