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Check your English teacher's credentials!
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Son Deureo!



Joined: 30 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
this would technically only apply to and worry those who teach with no visa. Given the requirements for the E2, the simple fact you have that visa and the ensuing ARC proves your credentials


The problem is that MOE doesn't seem to following that reasoning and is asking the teachers to provide these documents. It's quite a bit of expense and hassle to provide this documentation once per E2 visa issued, but twice? MOE and Immi should be able to resolve this without even bothering E-2 teachers who have already proven once that they've complied with the law.

There are other people who have to worry about this, such as teachers here on F-series visas who might not ever have had to produce these docs before.

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
Now as for verfying, if it just means checking with kimmi that all the records are there and valid then that would not affect the individual teachers because a school can do this on its own without even talking to the teacher....


If it just meant that, you wouldn't be seeing as many complaints about this as there are on the board these days.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Son Deureo! wrote:
PatrickGHBusan wrote:
this would technically only apply to and worry those who teach with no visa. Given the requirements for the E2, the simple fact you have that visa and the ensuing ARC proves your credentials


The problem is that MOE doesn't seem to following that reasoning and is asking the teachers to provide these documents. It's quite a bit of expense and hassle to provide this documentation once per E2 visa issued, but twice? MOE and Immi should be able to resolve this without even bothering E-2 teachers who have already proven once that they've complied with the law.

There are other people who have to worry about this, such as teachers here on F-series visas who might not ever have had to produce these docs before.

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
Now as for verfying, if it just means checking with kimmi that all the records are there and valid then that would not affect the individual teachers because a school can do this on its own without even talking to the teacher....


If it just meant that, you wouldn't be seeing as many complaints about this as there are on the board these days.


Complaints on this board are not representative of the reality of teaching in Korea. You have been in Korea and on this board long enough to know that.

As for F-visa teachers, they had to produce degrees and other documents to teach. No idea on the CBC but i know some who were required to provide one. Providing new docs would indeed be expensive if that ends up being required. I am pretty sure this will not be somethign widespread.
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Son Deureo!



Joined: 30 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
Complaints on this board are not representative of the reality of teaching in Korea. You have been in Korea and on this board long enough to know that.


So multiple threads discussing being required to produce additional sets of apostilled docs and medical checks somehow isn't indicative of reality? Are you suggesting that these teachers are lying? If MOE, and now the Korea Times, admitted that E2 visas have already proven their qualifications, this wouldn't be an issue right now.

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
As for F-visa teachers, they had to produce degrees and other documents to teach. No idea on the CBC but i know some who were required to provide one. Providing new docs would indeed be expensive if that ends up being required. I am pretty sure this will not be somethign widespread.


Not necessarily. Kyopos and spouses of Korean nationals without university degrees when they began teaching could have gotten into Korea and started teaching without ever being required to produce a degree, transcripts, or criminal records. For better or worse, unqualified and/or people with criminal records here of F-series visas will be out of the teaching business in Korea.

This might be a valid policy goal, but demanding the same documents from E-2s again doesn't accomplish anything useful that I can see.
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Julius



Joined: 27 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Son Deureo! wrote:

The problem is that MOE doesn't seem to following that reasoning and is asking the teachers to provide these documents. It's quite a bit of expense and hassle to provide this documentation once per E2 visa issued, but twice? MOE and Immi should be able to resolve this without even bothering E-2 teachers who have already proven once that they've complied with the law.


Someone at the MOE probably acted before discussing the issue properly with immigration. Or, as if often the case, government departments act independently of eachother, and do not communicate on overlapping issues.

There has also been a recurring pattern of a) Not keeping records (thus forcing people to provide the same documents over and over). b) Indidual heads of departments trying to garner more personal credibility for being seen to be "clamping down" on foreigners, and then issuing needless copycat measures.

So as usual..the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing, and nobody has intervened with common sense because they're too scared to lose their job.
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jfromtheway



Joined: 20 Nov 2010

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The Seoul Metropolitan Office of Education said Friday that it has been able to verify criminal records, medical history and other personal details of only 9.3 percent of non-Koreans working at cram schools, or hagwon in Korean, as English instructors in the capital city.


I know the regulations in Korea contain more than their fair share of ambiguity and balderdash. But for people who don't have criminal records and are working here, I'd be more concerned with what the bolded part is alluding to, or could possible entail. Medical history and personal details? What exactly are they trying to "verify" about those things, regarding people who already live here?
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litebear



Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Holland

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Julius wrote:
tiger fancini wrote:
Am I being a little simple when I say that pretty much everyone on an E2 has submitted apostilled criminal record checks to immigration in the last 12 months? .


The article doesn't even mention this obvious fact.

Instead it gives the impression that the vast majority of FT's have snuck in here without providing credentials of any kind.

But even if the latter was true, at what point would Koreans stop, reflect, and realize that the system is entirely of their own making?


This.

The way I read the article it seems to confirm that they do nothing with those documents. That the just gather dust in a desk somewhere
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Los Angeloser



Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

young_clinton wrote:
tiger fancini wrote:
Am I being a little simple when I say that pretty much everyone on an E2 has submitted apostilled criminal record checks to immigration in the last 12 months? I certainly have, as have all of my E2 friends. So in the case of E2s at least, all the MOE has to do is ask immigration. Why are they waffling on about making teachers apply for something from their home country that will take about 3 months, when a simple phone call or visit to immigration would have the same outcome? MOE and immigration are both government departments I think, so wouldn't it be much easier, quicker and cheaper for them to co-operate? Not quite understanding this to be honest.


Yeah I was going to say the same thing. How does a person get a visa required for teaching, without a CBC and having his diploma checked? I think that story is a little incredulous if not really dumb.


Exactly!
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Los Angeloser



Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
this would technically only apply to and worry those who teach with no visa. Given the requirements for the E2, the simple fact you have that visa and the ensuing ARC proves your credentials.

Now as for verfying, if it just means checking with kimmi that all the records are there and valid then that would not affect the individual teachers because a school can do this on its own without even talking to the teacher....


This seems like a storm in a tea cup.


The law was made to block the F - Visa hole so it's "technically" aimed at those who do not teach on E-2's. Of course that doesn't stop the MOE from attacking E-2's since they "have to" but don't really want to check ethnic Koreans.
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Los Angeloser



Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Check your English teacher's credentials! Reply with quote

Son Deureo! wrote:
Here's a little more anti-us hysteria courtesy of the Korea Times:

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2012/04/117_108519.html

Quote:
Check your English instructor’s credentials


1 in 10 foreign English instructors verified

By Lee Hyo-sik

Education authorities have failed to properly check the identity and qualifications of foreign English teachers hired by private learning institutes.

The Seoul Metropolitan Office of Education said Friday that it has been able to verify criminal records, medical history and other personal details of only 9.3 percent of non-Koreans working at cram schools, or hagwon in Korean, as English instructors in the capital city.

By district, the Seongbuk Education Office in northern Seoul checked the identity of only eight teachers out of 152, recording the lowest verification rate of 5.2 percent.

The Gangnam Education Office posted a 5.3 percent rate as it checked personal details of only 115 hagwon teachers out of 2,172.

Under the revised law governing foreign language teachers and private institutions employing them, which went into effect on Oct. 26, 2011, the education office should confirm not only their passports, visas and foreign registration cards, but also their police records provided by native countries and latest health reports.

``Private language institutes are primarily responsible for hiring qualified instructors from foreign countries. Employers are required to check all official documents on their employees whether they committed crimes or contracted contagious diseases,’’ said an official at the Seoul education office’s lifetime education department, who declined to be named.

The official said the education office then reviews all those documents from private language institutes for authenticity. Institutes will have to pay up to 3 million won ($2,600) or face closure if they do not follow the new requirements under the law.

There are about 22,600 non-Koreans with E-2 visa holders here and around 15,000 of them are employed at hagwon teaching English across the country.

``Rules concerning the employment of foreign language teachers were tightened last October following a series of unfortunate incidents involving them over the past few years. Under the revised regulations, we need to verify whether they were engaged in criminal activities in home countries,’’ he said. ``They should also submit a medical checkup conducted within a month prior to the employment.’’

The official then said it usually takes at least several months for those already employed at hagwon to file their criminal records. ``They have to ask their family members or friends back home to send them documents of their criminal history. But it takes at least three months. This is why the education office has not yet been able to finish the verification process.’’

He said only a few English and other foreign language instructors have been engaged in criminal activities, saying local media outlets tend to exaggerate the seriousness of crimes committed by English teachers and provide a largely inaccurate impression that many instructors were unqualified and would pose a threat to pupils.




Your headline should read "MOE Says Local Media Outlets Exaggerates Seriousness of English Teacher Crimes."

That is the real story since I've NEVER heard them say such a thing before. If they had then maybe(?) E-2's wouldn't have to be checked again. However, I doubt that since it is MOE's decision to include E-2's in these double and triple checks. The F - Visa hole is the reason for the law and that would only include about 10% of 15,000 hagwon teachers. Why they would create work for themselves is beyond me. Ooops, I forgot who we're talking about, I'm sorry.
And, the reporter is TERRIBLE.
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sojusucks



Joined: 31 May 2008

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of private institutions, everyone check out this website: http://www.hotjobkorea.com/nt/nt0.asp?page=1&sfield0=&sfield1=&sfield2=&sfield3=&sfield5=&sstring=&sectors=.

Some of my friends that no longer teach in South Korea, and have not for a few years, are listed here. Maybe you are too.
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isitts



Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sojusucks wrote:
Speaking of private institutions, everyone check out this website: http://www.hotjobkorea.com/nt/nt0.asp?page=1&sfield0=&sfield1=&sfield2=&sfield3=&sfield5=&sstring=&sectors=.

Some of my friends that no longer teach in South Korea, and have not for a few years, are listed here. Maybe you are too.


Wow. Some of those are interesting pictures. Not exactly the kind of I'd use to advertise myself for a teaching job, though. Smile
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NYC_Gal 2.0



Joined: 10 Dec 2010

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

litebear wrote:
Julius wrote:
tiger fancini wrote:
Am I being a little simple when I say that pretty much everyone on an E2 has submitted apostilled criminal record checks to immigration in the last 12 months? .


The article doesn't even mention this obvious fact.

Instead it gives the impression that the vast majority of FT's have snuck in here without providing credentials of any kind.

But even if the latter was true, at what point would Koreans stop, reflect, and realize that the system is entirely of their own making?


This.

The way I read the article it seems to confirm that they do nothing with those documents. That the just gather dust in a desk somewhere


At Incheon immigration, they are in boxes. When I went for my certified copies for my MOE, as I submitted them to immigration last year and my MOE wanted them on file as well (couldn't they have just called immi and had them faxed?) it took someone over 20 minutes to locate them. Funny thing is that last year, they returned the originals to me. I kept them, as they are far safer with me. They had just made photocopies to keep on file. This year, when I renew, I'm bringing them with me. If asked to provide them, I'm first going to have them find the copies (totally worth the 20 minutes, as they should have a far better filing system based on ALPHABETICAL ORDER) and then, if there's an issue, I'm breaking out the originals that I used to get my visa for this school.

Also, when I got my visa last year, I was told that I didn't need them until 2012, so plenty of people here right now probably went the easy route and put it off. I figured it was better to be safe and submit them then, and not have to do a mad scramble when everything was clogged up from everyone applying for CBCs this year.
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Weigookin74



Joined: 26 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Immigration never asked me for mine when I renewed this month. I gave them to my POE last September. So, I think Immigration will no keep them or ask for them, just the POE. I'm wondering if there was confusion last year on their part.

If I leave and go to another job or province, the POE will give me back my documents and I will give them to another POE. That will take care of that. (..or at least it better.)
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slothrop



Joined: 03 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit

Last edited by slothrop on Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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wylies99



Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you're right, slothrop, and the US Embassy is happy to have the negative spotlight off US soldiers and on anyone else. That's why they never speak up for us or do anything to help us.
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