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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea
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 Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by isitts on Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="slothrop"]
| isitts wrote: |
Anyway, why would the MOE want to make phone calls for all visa applicants when they can have you do all the legwork and they can just file a piece of paper? What government agency is going to want to do more work for you? 
quote]
they wouldn't be doing work "for me". they would be doing their job. if a diploma and/or transcripts can be faked, then asking an applicant to supply their own will ALWAYS result in the possibility of fraud. putting a notary on a fake documant doesn't make it real or reveal it as a fake. putting an apostille on the notary also accomplishes nothing. the only way to verify a degree is to contact the school directly. the only way to ensure a CRC is authentic is for them to contact the relevant authorities themselves and have the documant directly sent to them. |
You�re not thinking like a bureaucrat.
| slothrop wrote: |
any teacher who at this point doesn't see the absurdity of all this is either 1.a newbie who doesn't understand that in few months there will be NEW new regulations, equally as pointless and expensive. or
2.someone who is currently in a uni position and the MOE has not decided to pick on you yet AND you are enjoying watching other people suffer. |
Don�t get me wrong. It�s absurd. I�m with you on that. And I�m not working at a university. I�m just an E-2 at a public school. All I�m saying is that these requirements are not unique to Korea. As I said, even my dad had to get a notarized copy of his degree with apostille to work in his own country (the US).
I miss the days, too, when it was less pain and money to teach overseas. And I would consider (or am considering) laughing at my employers for requiring these documents and tests if I were certain there were better countries to work in that didn�t have these requirements. But I�m not so sure. Right now, it�s not enough of a hassle for me to bail on Korea. But if the next requirements become too much, then sure, I�ll head for the exit. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="slothrop"]
| isitts wrote: |
Anyway, why would the MOE want to make phone calls for all visa applicants when they can have you do all the legwork and they can just file a piece of paper? What government agency is going to want to do more work for you?
quote]
they wouldn't be doing work "for me". they would be doing their job. if a diploma and/or transcripts can be faked, then asking an applicant to supply their own will ALWAYS result in the possibility of fraud. putting a notary on a fake documant doesn't make it real or reveal it as a fake. putting an apostille on the notary also accomplishes nothing. the only way to verify a degree is to contact the school directly. the only way to ensure a CRC is authentic is for them to contact the relevant authorities themselves and have the documant directly sent to them.
i mean, come on. do you want to solve the problem once and for all or just keep muddying about with more paperwork and more stamps and more postage year after year(month after month in some cases)?
. |
Except that it doesn't solve the problem once and for all. Yes in the case of submitting a degree...once it's verified it should stay verified. But the thing is that there is a high turnover in this job...they don't keep our verifications on the system forever. It's quicker to get people to do it themselves...you want for Immigration bureaucrats to handle the processing of your documents from overseas? It would take twice as long (assuming they were able to get them at all due to privacy laws back in the West). They're not going to interpret their umpteenth coffee break to do that. 
As for the CRC it doesn't prove you aren't a criminal. All it proves it that you weren't charged with anything...whether you committed a crime or not. And it does not ensure that you will not commit a crime in future...thus the need to submit it each year/new job so far.
(BTW the "you" is a generic you...NOT you personally). |
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slothrop
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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edit
Last edited by slothrop on Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| slothrop wrote: |
| if they really wanted to weed all the fake degrees out of the system ......................... |
[periods are mine]
Official transcripts are like money. The paper is difficult if not impossible to fake. My degree certificate has a hot application plastic seal on it although I know for a fact not all degrees have that. However official transcripts are the standard for the West, not too many places care about the diploma itself. |
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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| slothrop wrote: |
| isitts...you wrote that fvisa now need 2 sets of copies and e-2 visa needs 1 set... r u sure you don't have that backwards? |
Sorry, I assumed F holders needed to submit these docs to kimmi, too. If not then, I guess I see why the MOE is doing this...and why TUM disregarded my post. 
E-2 just needs one set of docs for immigration, then they can get immigration-issued copies for the MOE. I got extra sets of docs just in case they needed originals, since I didn't find much info on the matter at the time I submitted my fingerprints.
Anyway, I'll go ahead and duck out of this conversation. |
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slothrop
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:12 am Post subject: |
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edit
Last edited by slothrop on Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:04 am; edited 4 times in total |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:44 am Post subject: |
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[quote="TheUrbanMyth"]
| slothrop wrote: |
| isitts wrote: |
Anyway, why would the MOE want to make phone calls for all visa applicants when they can have you do all the legwork and they can just file a piece of paper? What government agency is going to want to do more work for you?
quote]
they wouldn't be doing work "for me". they would be doing their job. if a diploma and/or transcripts can be faked, then asking an applicant to supply their own will ALWAYS result in the possibility of fraud. putting a notary on a fake documant doesn't make it real or reveal it as a fake. putting an apostille on the notary also accomplishes nothing. the only way to verify a degree is to contact the school directly. the only way to ensure a CRC is authentic is for them to contact the relevant authorities themselves and have the documant directly sent to them.
i mean, come on. do you want to solve the problem once and for all or just keep muddying about with more paperwork and more stamps and more postage year after year(month after month in some cases)?
. |
Except that it doesn't solve the problem once and for all. Yes in the case of submitting a degree...once it's verified it should stay verified. But the thing is that there is a high turnover in this job...they don't keep our verifications on the system forever. It's quicker to get people to do it themselves...you want for Immigration bureaucrats to handle the processing of your documents from overseas? It would take twice as long (assuming they were able to get them at all due to privacy laws back in the West). They're not going to interpret their umpteenth coffee break to do that.
As for the CRC it doesn't prove you aren't a criminal. All it proves it that you weren't charged with anything...whether you committed a crime or not. And it does not ensure that you will not commit a crime in future...thus the need to submit it each year/new job so far.
(BTW the "you" is a generic you...NOT you personally). |
Actually, an FBI CBC doesn't even prove that you weren't charged with anything, considering arrests can show up and have gotten people in trouble in the past. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:14 am Post subject: |
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[quote="TheUrbanMyth"]
| slothrop wrote: |
| isitts wrote: |
Anyway, why would the MOE want to make phone calls for all visa applicants when they can have you do all the legwork and they can just file a piece of paper? What government agency is going to want to do more work for you?
quote]
they wouldn't be doing work "for me". they would be doing their job. if a diploma and/or transcripts can be faked, then asking an applicant to supply their own will ALWAYS result in the possibility of fraud. putting a notary on a fake documant doesn't make it real or reveal it as a fake. putting an apostille on the notary also accomplishes nothing. the only way to verify a degree is to contact the school directly. the only way to ensure a CRC is authentic is for them to contact the relevant authorities themselves and have the documant directly sent to them.
i mean, come on. do you want to solve the problem once and for all or just keep muddying about with more paperwork and more stamps and more postage year after year(month after month in some cases)?
. |
Except that it doesn't solve the problem once and for all. Yes in the case of submitting a degree...once it's verified it should stay verified. But the thing is that there is a high turnover in this job...they don't keep our verifications on the system forever. It's quicker to get people to do it themselves...you want for Immigration bureaucrats to handle the processing of your documents from overseas? It would take twice as long (assuming they were able to get them at all due to privacy laws back in the West). They're not going to interpret their umpteenth coffee break to do that.
As for the CRC it doesn't prove you aren't a criminal. All it proves it that you weren't charged with anything...whether you committed a crime or not. And it does not ensure that you will not commit a crime in future...thus the need to submit it each year/new job so far.
(BTW the "you" is a generic you...NOT you personally). |
Regarding the degree verification, yes immigration does keep records on file. They did for me anyway. They had recorded my degree verification,
my alien registration, passport copies etc from every year that I worked in Korea.
Yet, they made me do it all over and over again.
It only stands to reason that if my degree was verified the last previous
4 or 5 years in a row, that they shouldn't need to re-invent the wheel each
year. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
Regarding the degree verification, yes immigration does keep records on file. They did for me anyway. They had recorded my degree verification,
my alien registration, passport copies etc from every year that I worked in Korea.
Yet, they made me do it all over and over again.
It only stands to reason that if my degree was verified the last previous
4 or 5 years in a row, that they shouldn't need to re-invent the wheel each
year. |
same here. I sat right in front of the official while she showed me on her screen where my docs had been scanned into their system - from another office, btw, so it's not like it was only at one kimmi office.
maybe they just want to prove we are the one and same person? that no one else is submitting our credentials?
I gave up a long time ago trying to make sense of it all because it doesn't make any sense and isn't worth the time worrying about it. |
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