Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Got fired today...update part 3
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Job-related Discussion Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Skippy



Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DS you still need to find out it, maybe you did from the lawyer, if you broke the law.

You are forgetting a couple of little points concerning the law.

1) As a waygook and non citizen your supposed crime will be seen much differently. For most citizens it will be a "bah, whatever". But for waygooks - it will be the classic "WHAT! - all foreigners are crooks. Let's run him out of town."

2) The difference between civil and criminal still might be moot for some government official. If there is a complaint or mark on even Korean record it could likely mess you up in the future.

3) The question is - Do you want to go the lawfare route? I do think paying the 200 dollars for the letter from the lawyer is an OK idea. It might put some fear into the boss. His attitude might change. Still the boss has said he has shown in the past the willingness to fight legally. Are you ready to go that route. Do you have the time? The resources? Can you stay in country to deal with?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dog Soldier



Joined: 29 Sep 2010

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I have the time and resources. I'm on my way to see the lawyer now.

I flip flop between wanting all the money to just a fair amount with none of the bullshit.

I think I'm willing to accept a reduced amount on the proviso of everything being confidential, no further action and a good reference. Should either of us break the pact, then a penalty should be paid.

I enjoyed my time at the school and don't want to be unnecessarily mean.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Troglodyte



Joined: 06 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds like your employer has also done some illegal or questionable things. It's not likely that he's going to take your to court, especially if he knows that you're capable of informing on him. Just lay out the facts for him and say that you don't want to make problems but you also don't want to be treated unfairly. There's a good chance that he'll negotiate.

I'm not an expert on Korean law, but i can't see how subletting would be criminal. Criminal law is stuff that affects society in general. This illegal subletting (even if it's proven that you did it) affects specific people and would be related to someone being cheated or lied to. I'm very sure that it's civil law. But if there's no proof then it's a moot point either way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dog Soldier



Joined: 29 Sep 2010

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

we've both done some dodgy things and neither of us are angels in this. I spoke with the lawyer (K Labor in Seoul who I can highly recommend). They think I have a pretty strong case.

With regards to the sub contracting, he thinks it's not such a big problem and it would be a civil matter not a criminal matter. Which, even though I've done wrong, is nice to know that the director is unlikely to take me to civil court (due to the cost of such a thing).

I'm hoping we can all be civil, agree a reduced settlement. If I get the settlement I want (5 million plus flight money) then I don't mind returning the 600k in it's entirety (the charge for sub letting).

I think this is fair....let's see after tomorrow.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
plchron



Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if he doesn't give you all the money you are owed. After you smile, shake his hand, and take your 'reduced' agreement you should make a call to NPS and screw him.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Sultan of Seoul



Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Location: right... behind.. YOU

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plchron wrote:
if he doesn't give you all the money you are owed. After you smile, shake his hand, and take your 'reduced' agreement you should make a call to NPS and screw him.


Yeah and screw yourself out of 3 yrs of backpayments.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dog Soldier



Joined: 29 Sep 2010

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We both have dirt on each other, if he tries to play any tricks post settlement then that is a recourse I'm willing to take. But like I said, I had 3 relatively nice years there and I don't want to be overly tough/mean. I just want a fair outcome...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
plchron



Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

earlier he said he was ok with going to NPS and making the payments because it would hurt his boss more. I like the way the OP thinks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dog Soldier



Joined: 29 Sep 2010

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way I see it, I'd pay circa 3 million. A fairly big hit, but liveable with as I intend to stay in korea long ter and you never know if the UK/ROK will change its deal.

However, for him it'll be 3 million + fine + the other teachers' pensions should the NPS wish to go looking.

There's also the question of the healthcare that would need to be backdated.

Truthfully, I don't want to use this threat, just keep it as a back up in case they try anything dodgy with me.

Ideally I'd like a glowing reference, hence willing to do some kind of deal.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Sultan of Seoul



Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Location: right... behind.. YOU

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dog Soldier wrote:
The way I see it, I'd pay circa 3 million. A fairly big hit, but liveable with as I intend to stay in korea long ter and you never know if the UK/ROK will change its deal.

However, for him it'll be 3 million + fine + the other teachers' pensions should the NPS wish to go looking.

There's also the question of the healthcare that would need to be backdated.

Truthfully, I don't want to use this threat, just keep it as a back up in case they try anything dodgy with me.

Ideally I'd like a glowing reference, hence willing to do some kind of deal.


However for him it will be - told to pay - ask for defferal - told to pay - say broke and can pay installments - change hakwan name - never pay etc...

For you it will be - told to pay 3mil - pay or not work as pension will redflag you when you start paying tax and HI at next job - pay or go to jail / be fined etc.

He wins.

Thought you's been here a while?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dog Soldier



Joined: 29 Sep 2010

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So had a meeting tonight with the director...can say it didn't go really well.

Asked him what he was offering, which wasn't much. Told him I wanted what I thought was fair, my notice, my final salary and my flight money plus a few other bits and bobs. He said no way.

Showed him the letter drafted by K-Labor Lawyer, but said lets do a deal. He told us to go and get out of his office.

5 minutes later he called us back, for no real reason but 'mildly' threatening us that he'll take action.

Going to wait until Monday before heading to the labor office here in CheongJu. After all, I still want to work out a fair deal. Maybe he'll have some time to think about who has the most to lose and realise it's in both our interests to come to a deal.

Which brings me nicely onto my next question. Both my contracts are in English. Is this going to be a problem for the labor board or will I need to get the contracts translated into Korean?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Sultan of Seoul



Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Location: right... behind.. YOU

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
After all, I still want to work out a fair deal. Maybe he'll have some time to think about who has the most to lose and realise it's in both our interests to come to a deal.


You can't have been in SK long, or you have but still don't understand the notion of face.

1. Go through labour office procedure asking for what it rightfully yours.

2. If you broke the law - deal with the consequences.

If you want to not do number 2 (no pun intended) it seems like you will have to make LARGE concessions on number 1.

He will either use the charge for subletting against you to get out of paying a large protion of what he owes you or he will press charges and drag the labour office procedures out for as long as he can to avoid paying you in full for as long as he can.

You are in between a rock and a hard place and in your position I would honestly find out what the max penalty for the subletting is and then balance the pros and cons of making a deal or not making a deal.

But be assured he will be willing to cut off his nose despite his face which is why I advised you not to do that snitching to the pension business, because he will likely call you on it and you can say you don't mind throwing away 3k as much as you want, but nobody really wants to do that no matter how much bluster they have built up, unless they are rich...

So best bet is to find out max penalty for subletting. If it is small - take the fall for it and ask labour office to sue him for every penny you are owed.

Be warned, I have had friends done this and one doing it now and it took all of them a long, long, long time to ever see a penny.... some never did, including me.

If his deal offer is small and the charges are no biggie - the above is best option if he won't budge.

If the charges are big, you need to suck up whatever he is offering. But be warned he might well pay you off chump change and then snitch on you anyway to try and get you out of the country...

Not trying to pee in your lemonade, just the black and white of how I see it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dog Soldier



Joined: 29 Sep 2010

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate all viewpoints. The max punishment for subletting is 20 million in fine, less than 2 years in prison.

But my case would surely be much less than that. Will try to speak to some lawyers in the interim.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Troglodyte



Joined: 06 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can he actually prove that you sublet the apartment? As opposed to simply letting a friend stay there?

I don't think that you'll really need a reference letter. A lot of schools will hire without one. The fact that you worked there for 3 years (minus a few weeks) shows that you're not a runner and that the boss obviously liked you. Just say that the school isn't doing well financially and so the boss had to think up a reason to fire you.

I don't think you'll need the LOR either. Since you've been fired in the 11th month, the labor board will probably give you a letter that you can use in lieu of the LOR when you ask immigration to change your visa to D10 or simply transfer the E2 elsewhere.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dog Soldier



Joined: 29 Sep 2010

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being the honest and good citizen I am, I did make a contract between me and the 2 Korean guys.

The letter of recommendation was more for if I can get a uni position, but at the same time, 3 years of service should count for something.

Going to go to the labor office on Monday, hopefully I get a decent offer prior to that. Otherwise, we'll just see what happens with the labor board.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Job-related Discussion Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 3 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2013 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International