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Got fired today...update part 3
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plchron



Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

go today. it takes 2 weeks for them to get the ball rolling from your first visit. Maybe when they call him and put him on notice his attitude will change.
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The Sultan of Seoul



Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Location: right... behind.. YOU

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plchron wrote:
go today. it takes 2 weeks for them to get the ball rolling from your first visit. Maybe when they call him and put him on notice his attitude will change.


Yeah Koreans CAN be all bluff and bluster until you call them and then they fold like paper.

Not all but some. Once you are in his office with those Labour Office and pension forms in hand, it would give you more leverage.

Nothing is garuanteed though, but it could help.

My advice to people trying to get money owed is to walk in with the labour office card and forms for your Gu and say something like

'Well I really wished we could deal with this between us, honourably etc, but I suppose now the easiest way is to leave it to the appropriate office and let them deal with it so we don't have to argue...'

Act like it's a real shame and that you are deeply saddened and you only wish you could save your relationship by working it out over lunch, but you are doing it as the last resort.

Seeing the namecard of the labour office official and the forms, all filled in, will certainly make it seem more real than just a bluff or him thinking a waygook would have no idea how to file a cliam with the KOREAN labour office etc...

I did this once and Wineducation paid me the 3.something mil they owed me and were trying to screw me out of.

Another time it made the hakwan owner so angry he locked me in a room and tried to kidnap me. All true.
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Dog Soldier



Joined: 29 Sep 2010

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Next part in the saga, feel like this is turning into something George Lucas-esque.

Got a phone call from the director this afternoon, but as my GF wasn't around I told him we'd call back.

Called him back about 8pm. My girlfriend, naturally did all the speaking. First of all he annoyed us even more by asking us to go in for another meeting. Both of us (my girlfriend even more so) are incredibly busy and due to the way he treated us last night, she told him where to go.

Then he offered me 1 month + severance. Which comes to 4.7, so getting close to my target. With some other bits and bobs owed, we agreed on 4.85 million. For the sake of 150K I couldn't be arsed to argue.

However, we also requested the letter of recommendation and for a confidentiality clause, which basically would stipulate no further action by either party (me with the labor board, him with the sub-let complaint). This he refused and said he needs time to think.

So either he genuinely needs time, or he was going to try and stiff me with something after he gave me the cash.

Then he was pushing for more and more meetings, which we refused. We're not trying to antagonise him, but the two meetings we've had so far have been a waste of time, plus me and the gf are busy and the Avengers movie is out. Priorities are important!

At the moment we haven't accepted anything, once he said he wants time, we said ok, we want time too.

Left it by telling him to contact me next week. I'm trying to play it cool, but at the same time show him some willingness to do a deal.

So that's you all up to date.
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Troglodyte



Joined: 06 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dog Soldier wrote:

So either he genuinely needs time, or he was going to try and stiff me with something after he gave me the cash.


My money's on "he needs time to think". The recommendation letter costs him nothing. I can't see him crucifying himself just to get revenge on you. He knows the situation. With or without the confidentiality thing, he knows that neither of you can rat on the other without paying for it.
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YTMND



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So either he genuinely needs time, or he was going to try and stiff me with something after he gave me the cash.


It's not him vs. you and your girlfriend. If he said, "How about 4.8?" You would say, "Let me think about it" then ask the girlfriend, and say "I want 5" when in fact it is "We want" (I think you were aiming for 5).

This other person could be a business partner or lawyer. When I was swimming alongside similar sharks, they didn't swim alone.

Go into the lion's den, play the victim role, get what you can right then and there. Don't do this hostage negotiator stuff offer the phone.

1 meeting, that's it, "Today, we resolve it", no phone calls, no emails, nada.
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Dog Soldier



Joined: 29 Sep 2010

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the one meeting thing is what we are going for,as my gf is just too busy to deal with this crap. And it's stressing her out, which is making her unhappy.

So we said that the next time we meet, everything get sorted or it's in front of the labor board.

I feel like we're close to a deal and hopefully next week or the week after it's done. The money side I'm happy with, and truthfully I could live without the Letter of Recommendation, (though it's nice to have) but I want to make sure he doesn't try to screw me in some other way.

Like I've said, I want to be/have tried to be fair all the way through.
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YTMND



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So we said that the next time we meet, everything get sorted or it's in front of the labor board.


No, you go in at the end of their work day when they are tired and don't want spend too much time. You don't leave until it is resolved, let them call the "shots". Let them come up with the solution. When they come up with a solution you like, then you walk out with an agreement written and signed. There is no labor board, there are no phones, there are no escape vents to construct conditionals.

The reason why you are getting tangled up in this is because you are allowing it to continue (just as much as they are). You need to come to an agreement and that only needs to be once.

Quote:
my gf is just too busy to deal with this crap.


Remove her from the equation, she is half the trouble. You don't need a Korean mouthpiece. Just the facts in English, walk out when you are done.

I pretend to not understand whatever the school is saying if it is in their language. If I show any understanding, then it opens up more doors to complicate the matter.

Have a list in back of your head of what you want, sit there until they "decide" to give you it as if they thought of it. If you or your girlfriend say you want something, of course the school will say no. But if they think of it.....
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Dog Soldier



Joined: 29 Sep 2010

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would love not to include my girlfriend, but the director can't speak one word of English and my Korean is no where near where it needs to be to deal with this.

As I'm also quite a private man, I have no wish to involve my K-friends in this matter
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YTMND



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dog Soldier wrote:
I would love not to include my girlfriend, but the director can't speak one word of English and my Korean is no where near where it needs to be to deal with this.

As I'm also quite a private man, I have no wish to involve my K-friends in this matter


You don't need to know Korean. He doesn't need to know English.

All he needs to see is your bankbook so he knows where to send money. Put out your hand, open the bankbook and have him write some numbers on paper.

Use some hand gestures to get the point across. Don't leave the office until something has been arranged.

You seem to think you need to talk about this before something will be done, like there will be this revelation on his part and then it will break out into a song and dance celebration. It won't.

Go in and demand your money as politely as you can. Don't leave the office until something has been arranged. Don't bring a book, but have something to work on. Sit right there in the office until something is done.
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Dog Soldier



Joined: 29 Sep 2010

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've agreed the funds, it's a case of the recommendation and the confidentiality clause.

I don't trust them as far as I could throw them. I want no comebacks.
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Troglodyte



Joined: 06 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're getting the money that you want, then there's not really anything else to negotiate worth losing time over.

If you get a reference letter from him, what's to stop him from later bad mouthing you when a future employer calls him up? If you're leaving on bad terms the reference is worthless if you also give future employers contact info for this guy.

The only thing that you could possibly negotiate of any value would be a letter saying that he agreed to the sub-letting.

But really nothing in the confidentiality clause that you want can be enforced. The only thing stopping him from retaliating against you is that he knows you can do the same. That will be true though whether or not you have this confidentiality things signed or not.
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a pretty good lesson here. Don't accept jobs with employers doing dodgy things. And certainly don't do anything dodgy yourself. The OP said that both he and the employer did dodgy things and now the OP's looking for some kind of legal recourse. The boss really does have the upper hand here. If he's willing to pay you and not report you for your own illegal acts (that's the way I'm reading "dodgy"), then take the money and get on with your life before he decides that introducing you to the fun of immigration investigation procedures is a good idea.
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bobbybigfoot



Joined: 05 May 2007
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The wife and the husband likely planned this out. The wife would have told the husband of your plan, the husband let you do it in order for him to fire you and get out of severance, pension and flights.

Three years and this is how they treat you. Just awful.
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premiummince



Joined: 23 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I think you got duped. Just take what you can get and leave it be.
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Troglodyte



Joined: 06 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect that they didn't plan it. They (mainly the wife) were probably just pissed that the OP was associating with a rival hogwon. They just used it as an excuse.

I don't really see it as the boss having the upper hand. As long as they both have dirt on each other, neither really has the upper hand. In fact, as the OP pointed out, he stands to lose much less than the school if all the dirty laundry is aired. I also don't see what immigration would have to do with it. He hasn't broken any immigration laws, and immigration doesn't care about civil lawsuits (assuming that one is even filed).

So the real lesson here, keep tabs on what dirt your boss sweeps under the carpet.
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