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Ranking of Korean Universities for Terms and Conditions
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I'm With You



Joined: 01 Sep 2011

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

transmogrifier wrote:
A lot of words without ever saying why it is so bad, expect that apparently it shows that the Korean professors don't treat us as equals. Who gives a crap? At our uni, it allows us to hire good teachers. The end.


Thanks for replying.

How are your teachers so good? I mean, what makes them so good?

And why do you argue that it's such a good idea to have a foreign handler for the foreign TEFL teachers?
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transmogrifier



Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Location: Seoul, South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm With You wrote:
transmogrifier wrote:
A lot of words without ever saying why it is so bad, expect that apparently it shows that the Korean professors don't treat us as equals. Who gives a crap? At our uni, it allows us to hire good teachers. The end.


Thanks for replying.

How are your teachers so good? I mean, what makes them so good?

And why do you argue that it's such a good idea to have a foreign handler for the foreign TEFL teachers?


What makes them so good? Having native speakers conducting the interviews and reading the cover letters, and hiring the right people.
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The Cosmic Hum



Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with transmogrifier that it is better when the group of expat teachers get to choose the new teachers.

What is a nightmare though, is when one of the expat teachers is sitting on the board with the Korean teachers/profs.
Often these people who propel themselves into that position are total ass kissing egomaniacs and next to impossible to please...short of kissing their ass.

It is almost predictable when I hear about others having to go through an interview with a foreigner on the hiring committee.
In those cases, and as has often been reported on this board, it wasn't the Korean profs that were jerks in the interview...it was the foreigner.
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transmogrifier



Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Location: Seoul, South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, we don't have any Korean professors or administration staff on the interview panel - the Korean head of our department always meets the interviewees briefly before or after the interview, but is pretty much happy to rubber stamp whatever recommendations we give him.
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Stan Rogers



Joined: 20 Aug 2010

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you get paid for that? Is it in your contract? Are you qualified to do it? What happens if you refuse to do it?
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I'm With You



Joined: 01 Sep 2011

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

transmogrifier wrote:
I'm With You wrote:
transmogrifier wrote:
A lot of words without ever saying why it is so bad, expect that apparently it shows that the Korean professors don't treat us as equals. Who gives a crap? At our uni, it allows us to hire good teachers. The end.


Thanks for replying.

How are your teachers so good? I mean, what makes them so good?

And why do you argue that it's such a good idea to have a foreign handler for the foreign TEFL teachers?


What makes them so good? Having native speakers conducting the interviews and reading the cover letters, and hiring the right people.


Korean professors aren't capable of doing that? What makes you more qualified to interview and hire the right people? Who are the "right people"?

A lot of words but nothing really explained as to why you are better than a Korean professor.

That's terrible that the university lets the native speaking teachers interview other native speaking teachers and, I assume recommend them for hire. I know it's done and I've even sat through such interviews. That's very unprofessional and looks really mickey mouse.

Yeah, when there's a foreign teachers on the panel, it's typically a suckhole and often acts like a real assshole towards the candidates.
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transmogrifier



Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Location: Seoul, South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stan Rogers wrote:
Do you get paid for that? Is it in your contract? Are you qualified to do it? What happens if you refuse to do it?


Yes. No. What counts as qualifications to be on a hiring committee in your world? Nothing.
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transmogrifier



Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Location: Seoul, South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm With You wrote:
transmogrifier wrote:
I'm With You wrote:
transmogrifier wrote:
A lot of words without ever saying why it is so bad, expect that apparently it shows that the Korean professors don't treat us as equals. Who gives a crap? At our uni, it allows us to hire good teachers. The end.


Thanks for replying.

How are your teachers so good? I mean, what makes them so good?

And why do you argue that it's such a good idea to have a foreign handler for the foreign TEFL teachers?


What makes them so good? Having native speakers conducting the interviews and reading the cover letters, and hiring the right people.


Korean professors aren't capable of doing that? What makes you more qualified to interview and hire the right people? Who are the "right people"?

A lot of words but nothing really explained as to why you are better than a Korean professor.

That's terrible that the university lets the native speaking teachers interview other native speaking teachers and, I assume recommend them for hire. I know it's done and I've even sat through such interviews. That's very unprofessional and looks really mickey mouse.

Yeah, when there's a foreign teachers on the panel, it's typically a suckhole and often acts like a real assshole towards the candidates.


Hang on, you are the one that made the initial claim that WE aren't as suitable to be on the hiring committee as Korean profs for what apparently amounts to self-hatred - you think we are by our very nature useless and an underclass and not taken seriously. Yet at the same time you make it clear that a hiring committee is something to take very seriously, so would assume a uni that let foreign instructors actually be part of the decision making would be evidence that they DID take our role seriously. But no, to you, this is a Mickey Mouse thing because you are convinced that we are incapable of being on a hiring committee because we are by our very nature useless and an underclass and not to be taken seriously. Around and around in circles, your own self-evident hatred of fellow foreigners in positions of influence driving you a little insane.

Or have you got something logical? My stance is pretty obvious - we are native speakers so the language problems in interviews will never be a problem, we teach the classes and designed the curriculum that people are interviewing for, so we are in the best position to judge the suitability of candidates for the positions.

You stance seems to be, wah wah foreign instructors at universities suck and then you seem to stamp your feet some. There is nothing to your argument that I can discern.
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Stan Rogers



Joined: 20 Aug 2010

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you say "right people" do you mean like minded individuals?
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The Cosmic Hum



Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stan Rogers wrote:
When you say "right people" do you mean like minded individuals?

Great minds think alike.
Fools seldom differ.

Either one will do...and are often one and the same.
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transmogrifier



Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Location: Seoul, South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stan Rogers wrote:
When you say "right people" do you mean like minded individuals?


People who can teach.
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Hugo85



Joined: 27 Aug 2010

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm With You wrote:
Hugo85 wrote:
I'm With You wrote:
I absolutely hate it and do consider it a bad thing.

And that's why university teaching positions for foreign TEFL teachers aren't really university positions. They provide university-like working conditions but they aren't really faculty positions.

So in this sense, I guess the Korean profs can't be bothered to deal with foreign TEFL teachers, who they normally look down on, and just get one of the trusted white barbarians to screen new applicants. The typical hiring and vetting process for Korean professors doesn't apply when hiring a foreign TEFL teacher, so anything goes. And let's be honest here, most Korean professors don't want to have to deal with the foreign TEFL staff.

There's all kinds of problems with this, though.


Unigwon!


Right.

So if they aren't true faculty positions, then what are they?

Visiting Instructors?

Guest Instructors?

Contract Instructors?


English teacher!

Only teaching language classes is obviously not a real faculty position and doesn't even lead to tenure (more of a permanent position). The Korean language institute teachers are also not real Professors.
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drydell



Joined: 01 Oct 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm With You wrote:
transmogrifier wrote:
I'm With You wrote:
transmogrifier wrote:
A lot of words without ever saying why it is so bad, expect that apparently it shows that the Korean professors don't treat us as equals. Who gives a crap? At our uni, it allows us to hire good teachers. The end.


Thanks for replying.

How are your teachers so good? I mean, what makes them so good?

And why do you argue that it's such a good idea to have a foreign handler for the foreign TEFL teachers?


What makes them so good? Having native speakers conducting the interviews and reading the cover letters, and hiring the right people.


Korean professors aren't capable of doing that? What makes you more qualified to interview and hire the right people? Who are the "right people"?

A lot of words but nothing really explained as to why you are better than a Korean professor.

That's terrible that the university lets the native speaking teachers interview other native speaking teachers and, I assume recommend them for hire. I know it's done and I've even sat through such interviews. That's very unprofessional and looks really mickey mouse.

Yeah, when there's a foreign teachers on the panel, it's typically a suckhole and often acts like a real assshole towards the candidates.


Being a native English speaker does mean we can better assess personality (like it or not) more so than Koreans can - it's part of the same reason some Korean girls end up dating very socially weird Westerners - they often can't pick up the subtle language nuances that would send out warning signals to same language speakers ... (and the same goes for the other way around too)

Having said that - maybe the reason you seem to have come across unprofessional NET's on hiring committees is for this very reason..
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I'm With You



Joined: 01 Sep 2011

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

transmogrifier wrote:
Hang on, you are the one that made the initial claim that WE aren't as suitable to be on the hiring committee as Korean profs for what apparently amounts to self-hatred - you think we are by our very nature useless and an underclass and not taken seriously. Yet at the same time you make it clear that a hiring committee is something to take very seriously, so would assume a uni that let foreign instructors actually be part of the decision making would be evidence that they DID take our role seriously. But no, to you, this is a Mickey Mouse thing because you are convinced that we are incapable of being on a hiring committee because we are by our very nature useless and an underclass and not to be taken seriously. Around and around in circles, your own self-evident hatred of fellow foreigners in positions of influence driving you a little insane.

Or have you got something logical? My stance is pretty obvious - we are native speakers so the language problems in interviews will never be a problem, we teach the classes and designed the curriculum that people are interviewing for, so we are in the best position to judge the suitability of candidates for the positions.

You stance seems to be, wah wah foreign instructors at universities suck and then you seem to stamp your feet some. There is nothing to your argument that I can discern.


I sure hope you aren't sitting on a hiring committee.

Unreal.
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I'm With You



Joined: 01 Sep 2011

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drydell wrote:
Being a native English speaker does mean we can better assess personality (like it or not) more so than Koreans can - it's part of the same reason some Korean girls end up dating very socially weird Westerners - they often can't pick up the subtle language nuances that would send out warning signals to same language speakers ... (and the same goes for the other way around too)

Having said that - maybe the reason you seem to have come across unprofessional NET's on hiring committees is for this very reason..


Remember, you're talking about Korean professors who have lived in the USA for some years. They've obtained their master's and Ph.D degrees in the U.S.

Surely, they're not idiots you make them out to be.
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