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Korea's utter lack of a child safety culture
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radcon



Joined: 23 May 2011

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=7602108

A news story about the child protection products industry. A helmet for kids in the home? Eff that. Over protective parents suck.
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crescent



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

radcon wrote:
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=7602108

A news story about the child protection products industry. A helmet for kids in the home? Eff that. Over protective parents suck.

Congrats on biting Steelrail's hook. So, you also think the only alternative to the lack of safety in Korea is to become overprotective? Interesting there can only be two extremes.
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radcon



Joined: 23 May 2011

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crescent wrote:
radcon wrote:
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=7602108

A news story about the child protection products industry. A helmet for kids in the home? Eff that. Over protective parents suck.

Congrats on biting Steelrail's hook. So, you also think the only alternative to the lack of safety in Korea is to become overprotective? Interesting there can only be two extremes.


Um no. I have no interest in and didn't even read what you and Steerails are going on about. I think over protective parents suck as well as the lack of safety I see hear on a daily basis.
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JustinC



Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Location: We Are The World!

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crescent wrote:
radcon wrote:
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=7602108

A news story about the child protection products industry. A helmet for kids in the home? Eff that. Over protective parents suck.

Congrats on biting Steelrail's hook. So, you also think the only alternative to the lack of safety in Korea is to become overprotective? Interesting there can only be two extremes.


r e a c h & s t r e t c h

Howard, heh.
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Dodge7



Joined: 21 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bindairdundat wrote:
Dodge7 wrote:
This thread--what a coincidence.

My wife and I were just at her friends house today because her friend was giving us a crib and some other things for our baby. She has a 6 month old baby boy and she left him on her bed and then left the room to fetch some other things for us. I didn't think anything of it than BAM, like a sack of potatoes the baby falls off the bed onto the wooden floor and starts bawling. The baby had a red forehead and bled from his nose a little bit. I was in shock, I won't forget that sound--literally sounded like dropping a box or rocks on the floor from a 2 foot high.

WATCH YOUR FREAKIN KIDS AT ALL TIMES!

I understand it was an accident, but this is her second kid, hopefully I thought she knew better than to leave that baby for more than 2-3 minutes alone...ON THE EDGE OF A BED!

Edit to add:
oh, I almost forgot, then about a half hour later her 4 year old daughter had opened a bottle of powder soap and spilled it on the floor and was rolling around in it, licking it, while the mother was in the kitchen preparing some watermelon. I was putting the crib in the car when I came back up stairs and saw her.
This woman is the worst mother of the year in my eyes.


This reminds me of one time on a village bus - a mother had her baby wrapped up and hanging off her back (as Korean mothers do). She had stood up because her stop was coming up and the baby was kind of hanging loosely with his/her head lopped over to one side. As the bus driver braked/changed gears/turned corners this mother stumbled a bit to regain her footing and meanwhile the baby's head ricocheted off one of those posts that people hang on to. A few seconds later the baby's head swung to the opposite side and again bounced off another post. The baby went cross-eyed for a couple seconds. Ultimately the baby smacked it's head 3 or 4 times before the mother finally got off and she was no wiser that it even happened. The look on the baby's face was priceless.

If you ever have anything to do with skating or hockey here, you'll see the kids running around off ice with their skates on leaping over other children as they are on the floor putting their equipment on. I tried to explain to the parents that the kids essentially had knives on their feet, but of course I got nowhere.

Amazing. Honestly what's the malfunction with these people and their children's safety? Laziness? Afraid to tell them no?
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't believe the amount of posts on this. In the end, if you want to protect your kid, then go ahead. Stop worrying about other's children.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crescent wrote:
Steelrails wrote:
Child safety types and their lawyer cohorts are like mice and cookies. Those people won't stop at reasonable precautions. Advocacy campaigns are one thing, but a stream of rules and regulations will have negative consequences that outweigh the good.

They do things like ban every fun activity under the sun and require stormtrooper armor for kids to do anything, then accuse parents of child neglect as their kid becomes obese from staying inside and playing video games of sports and adventures that used to be played outside using a ball or one's imagination. Kids used to play outside with Army Men. Now they play Army Men, the video game.

Instead of running around with banned airsoft guns because 1 kid out of 100,000 that played with them decided to shoot himself in the eye, kids now sit on the sofa playing Halo, leading to health problems and social maladjustment that probably causes more problems than 1 kid with an eyepatch.

It's time for the ol' Steerails switcheroo! Hey Steel.... can you count the flaws in this new argument of yours? On one glance, I counted three. You have a great imagination! Must be from playing with all the knives and chemicals when you were 6.


As opposed to your academic treatise and Vulcan-worthy logic of "Hey I saw some kids running around at the bus stop while mom looked on her smartphone. There's a huge cultural issue here."?

If Koreans did have an extensive child safety culture, the Korea complainers would complain about Korean parents smothering children and saying stuff like "Back home kids would climb trees and have adventures, not just be covered in padding and forced to hold mommy's hand."

Another case of where if Koreans go left, people will say they should go right. And if they go right, people will say they should go right. And if they choose the third way and go straight, people will say they should turn around. And if they turn around people will say they should be riding a bike instead of driving a car. The could be paradise and identical to back home and people would still find something culturally wrong just for the sake of complaining.
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Mr. BlackCat



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The whole out of control litigious culture of the West is completely a myth, just like the so called out of control crime. The news will report one sensational half story and people will believe it's happening in every town across their country every day. If that were the case, then it wouldn't even be news in the first place. Corporations and right wing politicians have created this myth in order to avoid common sense responsibilities that businesses and government should have. Now people feel superior because they don't need special rules to protect them and their children because they're so independent, not like these other losers who can't leave the house without hurting themselves and blaming everyone else. Seriously, people need to know that when they complain about a totalitarian government conspiracy to force us to use seatbelts they sound just as crazy as those idiots who claim the small pox vaccination causes autism.

I would encourage people to watch Hot Coffee, an HBO documentary about the famous McDonald's hot coffee case. It shows how the media (owned by large corporations) willfully distorted the facts and put out blatant lies in order to force tort reform through.

Yes, people will abuse any system and sometimes the authorities go too far. But saying, "We didn't have child seats when I was a kid and I turned out fine!" sound like they're saying, "We didn't have the small pox vaccine when I was a kid and I turned out fine!" Yes, but millions didn't. They're just not around to tell you about it.
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crescent



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
[As opposed to your academic treatise and Vulcan-worthy logic of "Hey I saw some kids running around at the bus stop while mom looked on her smartphone. There's a huge cultural issue here."?

If Koreans did have an extensive child safety culture, the Korea complainers would complain about Korean parents smothering children and saying stuff like "Back home kids would climb trees and have adventures, not just be covered in padding and forced to hold mommy's hand."

Another case of where if Koreans go left, people will say they should go right. And if they go right, people will say they should go right. And if they choose the third way and go straight, people will say they should turn around. And if they turn around people will say they should be riding a bike instead of driving a car. The could be paradise and identical to back home and people would still find something culturally wrong just for the sake of complaining.

Oh, it's strawman time? Great, first just let me correct you yet again. I clearly said, it's not just one instance of one type of safety issue, it's the repeat occurrence of the entire list of things I posted earlier. These observations have been repeating themselves over the past 11 years. I didn't even mention the mass of one-time instances I've seen over the years. Interesting how this issue correlates so well with the observations of so many others aside from the 'my folks let me play with knives and guns and i didn't kill myself' crew.

But really, what's with the if, if, if? Seriously, why even bother typing?
Funny, that you went from saying I have a point a few pages ago, to this 'if' garbage. Did your first attempt at trying to pigeonhole me work out well enough that you want to try it again by assuming I am complaining for the sake of it? If that's where you want to go with this, then I can say the same thing about your defensiveness, especially in this case.

Who says I don't criticize my own culture, or your culture when I lived there, when I noticed farked up things going on? Where were you on the threads I started doing just that? Was I complaining just for the sake of it then? Do people need a disclaimer clause on threads such as these in order to pacify your incessant need to defend this country, no matter how obvious the issue is?

If your denial is actually sourced from outside a conditioned response to criticism, then does it come with a belief that there has never been an issue with safety in your time here, or is it your view that things have just improved dramatically since you first arrived?
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wishfullthinkng



Joined: 05 Mar 2010

PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crescent wrote:
Who says I don't criticize my own culture, or your culture when I lived there, when I noticed farked up things going on? Where were you on the threads I started doing just that? Was I complaining just for the sake of it then? Do people need a disclaimer clause on threads such as these in order to pacify your incessant need to defend this country, no matter how obvious the issue is?



the key difference here is that you grew up in your own culture and understand it very well. you didn't grow up in this culture and you obviously do not understand it, yet you still judge it. all cultures should not represent the one you are familiar with. you'd be wise to learn that.

understanding (or attempting to) > judgement

one makes you look wise, the other makes you look foolish.
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atwood



Joined: 26 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. BlackCat wrote:
The whole out of control litigious culture of the West is completely a myth, just like the so called out of control crime. The news will report one sensational half story and people will believe it's happening in every town across their country every day. If that were the case, then it wouldn't even be news in the first place. Corporations and right wing politicians have created this myth in order to avoid common sense responsibilities that businesses and government should have. Now people feel superior because they don't need special rules to protect them and their children because they're so independent, not like these other losers who can't leave the house without hurting themselves and blaming everyone else. Seriously, people need to know that when they complain about a totalitarian government conspiracy to force us to use seatbelts they sound just as crazy as those idiots who claim the small pox vaccination causes autism.

I would encourage people to watch Hot Coffee, an HBO documentary about the famous McDonald's hot coffee case. It shows how the media (owned by large corporations) willfully distorted the facts and put out blatant lies in order to force tort reform through.

Yes, people will abuse any system and sometimes the authorities go too far. But saying, "We didn't have child seats when I was a kid and I turned out fine!" sound like they're saying, "We didn't have the small pox vaccine when I was a kid and I turned out fine!" Yes, but millions didn't. They're just not around to tell you about it.

Nice post, and I second your recommendation of the documentary "Hot Coffee."
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minos



Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Location: kOREA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. BlackCat wrote:
The whole out of control litigious culture of the West is completely a myth, just like the so called out of control crime. The news will report one sensational half story and people will believe it's happening in every town across their country every day. If that were the case, then it wouldn't even be news in the first place. Corporations and right wing politicians have created this myth in order to avoid common sense responsibilities that businesses and government should have. Now people feel superior because they don't need special rules to protect them and their children because they're so independent, not like these other losers who can't leave the house without hurting themselves and blaming everyone else. Seriously, people need to know that when they complain about a totalitarian government conspiracy to force us to use seatbelts they sound just as crazy as those idiots who claim the small pox vaccination causes autism.

I would encourage people to watch Hot Coffee, an HBO documentary about the famous McDonald's hot coffee case. It shows how the media (owned by large corporations) willfully distorted the facts and put out blatant lies in order to force tort reform through.

Yes, people will abuse any system and sometimes the authorities go too far. But saying, "We didn't have child seats when I was a kid and I turned out fine!" sound like they're saying, "We didn't have the small pox vaccine when I was a kid and I turned out fine!" Yes, but millions didn't. They're just not around to tell you about it.


Partially true.

Alot of times the lawyer just wants a settlement and is blackmailing the the prosecution since it would cost more to defend than give a relatively small settlement with no bad press. Settling for 5% of the original amount from a big company is sorta of a win-win if the plaintiff had a reasonable claim.

I'm dealing with the opposite situation ironically(under $20,000 ripped off, scumbag thinks the opposition doesn't has the funds to go through with it so he refuses to settle).
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crescent



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wishfullthinkng wrote:
the key difference here is that you grew up in your own culture and understand it very well. you didn't grow up in this culture and you obviously do not understand it, yet you still judge it. all cultures should not represent the one you are familiar with. you'd be wise to learn that.

understanding (or attempting to) > judgement

one makes you look wise, the other makes you look foolish.

Don't assume I expect other cultures to emulate my own. That's not the issue. I'm not saying the way it's practiced in my country is THE way, and moreover I don't believe Cultural relativism explains the evidence such as the fact that parents generally choose not to obey the law and buckle their children up in traffic proven to be one of the deadliest among industrialized countries.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd agree more with the seatbelt issues than some of the other one's raised. That's a pretty obvious one.

I can excuse a family on a scooter, because that's economics. I'm sure mom would love to be rolling in a brand new Saab, but when you make 1000 bucks a month...

I can excuse the chemicals by the mop sink on the floor, because kids aren't that stupid. Like I said, chemicals on the floor are as dangerous as rocks on the ground in a park. Any kid can choose to be destructive if they want. At some point you have to accept that .001% will die or kill another kid because of stupidity and/or random destructive impulse.

I can excuse playing around the bus stop, because again, common sense and I don't want to see kids in leashes, which is what it would take.

I can excuse kids with exacto knives because at some point you have to learn how to use tools and everyone injures themselves at least once.

But the seat belt and child seat thing is a bit ridiculous and they need a better campaign. Start fining people too. Not too big of a fine that it becomes the latest bribe/pay raise, but like 20,000 won a pop. Enough so that the person thinks about it.
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comm



Joined: 22 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
But the seat belt and child seat thing is a bit ridiculous and they need a better campaign. Start fining people too. Not too big of a fine that it becomes the latest bribe/pay raise, but like 20,000 won a pop. Enough so that the person thinks about it.

Because the 30,000 won fine for smoking is effective? Only significant fines change behavior. Hell, even if someone WAS pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt (and that's unlikely), they'd probably pay the 20 and keep doing it, hoping not to be pulled over again.
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