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HIV Testing Policy Challenged - UN Coalition on Human Rights
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sml7285



Joined: 26 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every single male Korean national has to undergo a blood HIV test, a urine drug test, a psychological exam and a weight and height measurement.
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Son Deureo!



Joined: 30 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="TheUrbanMyth"]
Son Deureo! wrote:
OK, that's not a link, but if I decide to give you full credit for that anyway that's still only 1 out of 3 on one of the four numbered points. This makes your score 1/12, and I'm grading you generously.

What about the HIV and drug tests that you claimed that "all teachers" must submit to. E-2s have to take them, I'm wondering if the Korean professors where I work are taking them now too. Links would be great, if you can provide them.


As to the credit you did make 4 points but if you go back and look at your own points...this one #3 was the only one you asked a question for. The other 3 end in statements. If you wish answers I'd appreciate questions first.

I didn't realize I had to phrase all discussion in the form of a question in order to to merit a response. Since you didn't reply, I'll just go ahead and assume that you agreed with me on points 1, 2, and 4. Is that a reasonable assumption on my part?



Quote:
As for the link there is a link to the law in the dave's thread I linked. I suggest going back and reading the whole thread.

And yes Korean teachers (those I have spoken to) do have to take drug tests and tests for STD's. This is when they are first hired. Now I have no idea what drugs they test them for and no idea if these STD's include HIV. I also have no idea if they test them for these AGAIN after the initial test.


I went back and read the thread again like you asked me to, and it still said the same thing it said the first time: The post from r122925 references a section of education law meant specifically for foreign teachers. That means you still haven't proven that Korean teachers nationwide are subject to HIV testing. I'll admit that I did not go through and read the several pages of statutes in Korean to confirm this fact, but if you can find the appropriate selections and quote them here you'll have the chance to earn some credit back from me.

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
But this is what I've been told from the 'horse's mouth' so to speak, to wit by my Korean co-workers themselves.


While I'm impressed that you work with talking horses, I find it difficult to verify that all Korean teachers, equine or otherwise, are required to submit to HIV testing based on your word alone. This would probably explain why teachers at your school aren't taking HIV tests, as horses are not susceptible to it. I'm not sure about other STDs, though, so you should probably consult your veterinarian before taking any unnecessary risks.


Last edited by Son Deureo! on Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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slothrop



Joined: 03 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit

Last edited by slothrop on Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:45 pm; edited 2 times in total
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sml7285



Joined: 26 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

slothrop wrote:
sml7285 wrote:
Every single male Korean national has to undergo a blood HIV test, a urine drug test, a psychological exam and a weight and height measurement.


Laughing what? no shoe size?


Haha I'm sure a shoe size measure too... military service troubles.
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slothrop



Joined: 03 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit

Last edited by slothrop on Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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northway



Joined: 05 Jul 2010

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

slothrop wrote:
northway wrote:
slothrop wrote:
i really don't know what you are trying to say patrick. i t seems to me you are just complicating the issue. my assertions is...

1.an f-visa should only have to submit to the same tests as a korean citizen. and

2.an e-2 visa, once they have already met ALL immigration requirements should only have to submit to the same tests as korean citizens as well.

the MOE or an employer has no right to tell f-visa teachers that they need drug testing or aids testing whenever they feel like it unless it is implimented equally including korean citizens. they also don't have a right to tell e-2 visa teachers who have already met all immigration requirements that they need more aids tests and drug tests whenever they feellike it unless it is being implimened equally among all incuding korean citizens.


Well, they have a legal right to. That doesn't make it sound policy though.


do they also have a legal right to require you to hop around on one leg and squawk like a chicken while flapping your arms like wings?


Probably.
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soomin



Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Location: Daegu

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

northway wrote:
slothrop wrote:
northway wrote:
slothrop wrote:
i really don't know what you are trying to say patrick. i t seems to me you are just complicating the issue. my assertions is...

1.an f-visa should only have to submit to the same tests as a korean citizen. and

2.an e-2 visa, once they have already met ALL immigration requirements should only have to submit to the same tests as korean citizens as well.

the MOE or an employer has no right to tell f-visa teachers that they need drug testing or aids testing whenever they feel like it unless it is implimented equally including korean citizens. they also don't have a right to tell e-2 visa teachers who have already met all immigration requirements that they need more aids tests and drug tests whenever they feellike it unless it is being implimened equally among all incuding korean citizens.


Well, they have a legal right to. That doesn't make it sound policy though.


do they also have a legal right to require you to hop around on one leg and squawk like a chicken while flapping your arms like wings?


Probably.


I had to squat down and walk like a duck for my high school health exam back in the States to check for scoliosis, so... anything's possible, lol

I heard in a previous thread that if you were on an e-2 and hadn't left for longer than 3 months that the medical check was still valid... At my current school I just went to MOE and got a copy of my check from them and used that when I transferred schools last year (though, I had transferred my visa after the 7 month mark rather than the year mark, so, was that the reason?)... Has that changed?
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sml7285 wrote:
Every single male Korean national has to undergo a blood HIV test, a urine drug test, a psychological exam and a weight and height measurement.


Well, it's not the same because, except for the HIV test, it's the ones who don't fail who feel like they've lost.

Besides, you're going at it the wrong way. Some of us here have volunteered and served in their country's military (I have). Some of us are even veterans.
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sml7285



Joined: 26 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

12ax7 wrote:
sml7285 wrote:
Every single male Korean national has to undergo a blood HIV test, a urine drug test, a psychological exam and a weight and height measurement.


Well, it's not the same because, except for the HIV test, it's the ones who don't fail who feel like they've lost.

Besides, you're going at it the wrong way. Some of us here have volunteered and served in their country's military (I have). Some of us are even veterans.


I wasn't discussing the merits of a conscription service; I was merely arguing against the idea that an HIV test is in place merely as a deterrent against foreign nationals seeking employment. How is that true if half of the population of country is required to undergo such testing?
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good grief. How is true? It's discriminatory when a specific category of foreigners applying for the same job are required to undergo it and those foreigners who aren't required to undergo it for the same job are exempted because they are (a) of Korean ethnicity or (b) an immediate family member (i.e., spouse) of a Korean or someone of Korean ethinicity.
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Who's Your Daddy?



Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: The joy's in the ride.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralCali wrote:
Good grief. How is true? It's discriminatory when a specific category of foreigners applying for the same job are required to undergo it and those foreigners who aren't required to undergo it for the same job are exempted because they are (a) of Korean ethnicity or (b) an immediate family member (i.e., spouse) of a Korean or someone of Korean ethinicity.


a) and b) aren't exempt under MOE guidelines any more only Korean citizens are.
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who's Your Daddy? wrote:
CentralCali wrote:
Good grief. How is true? It's discriminatory when a specific category of foreigners applying for the same job are required to undergo it and those foreigners who aren't required to undergo it for the same job are exempted because they are (a) of Korean ethnicity or (b) an immediate family member (i.e., spouse) of a Korean or someone of Korean ethinicity.


a) and b) aren't exempt under MOE guidelines any more only Korean citizens are.


You mean now or you mean since the issue first hit? Do you mean for all foreigner teaching jobs and not just public school jobs?
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slothrop



Joined: 03 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit

Last edited by slothrop on Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or, take the tests, enjoy your time in Korea and still keep your dignity intact. Laughing

Dignity gets tossed around far too much in these situations I think.

Sloth, you make valid points about surrenduring freedoms and where that can lead a society but you go a tad too far (to make a point I suspect).

Still, there is no developed country with established rules for immigration and labor movement will treat foreign workers the same as citizens. Expecting that is unrealistic and futile.

Also in this thread too many people seem to confuse immigration with working abroad as a foreign temporary worker.

Immigration aims at obtaining permanent residency and/or citizenship and leaving ones country (and sometimes nationality) behind.

Working abroad is typically a temporary status for a short term (maybe a few years) that has no effect on your citizenship. Rather, it is typically a sponsored visa that is granted due to a local employer proving they need foreign workers to fill a demand for a set period of time thereby granting you the right to enter the country and work there for that same set period.

Furthermore, sponsored visas are typically short and can be renewed; typically by submitting a new application with supporting documents or by an employer being able to extend the sponsorship agreement.

This has nothing to do with an immigrant who, once he or she passes all the requirements gains full freedom of labor movement in his new country and can do whatever work he or she qualifies for.

So, my wife, a former Korean national, had to undergo an extensive medical exam that included HIV and other dangerous diseases as a part of her immigration process. This was done once and now that she is a citizen, it is no longer required unless a specific employer requires a medical test (some do).

I on the other hand would have to take a medical test should I wish to work in any number of other countries as a foreign worker. The people who are citizens there will typically not have to take such tests or submit paperwork.

Seriously this whole farce would end if they simply made the medical and drug screening test a full visa issuance issue and if those tests were admistered prior to entry into the country and visa issuance.

Then sloth, as you said, but minus the drama, each person could choose if they wish to work in Korea or not or if they prefer somewhere else. Well, heck, this is a choice now anyway, no one forces anyone to go to K-land to teach ESL and the ESL-TEFL world market offers lots of potential destinations with fewer requirements (some with more as well).

By the way and AGAIN, to obtain a temporary work permit in Canada you can be required to take extensive medical tests:

Quote:
Jobs for which you need a medical examination
Depending on your intended occupation while in Canada, certain temporary foreign workers are required to undergo a medical examination. The following list provides examples of such occupations. This list is not all-inclusive.

1.Occupations that bring you into close contact with people, namely:
◦workers in the health sciences field
◦clinical laboratory workers
◦patient attendants in nursing and geriatric homes
◦medical students admitted to Canada to attend university
◦medical electives and physicians on short-term locums
◦teachers of primary or secondary schools or other teachers of small children
◦domestics
◦workers who give in-home care to children, the elderly and the disabled
◦day nursery employees


Now since certain temporary workers need to take this examination, perhaps the UN should be notified....
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slothrop



Joined: 03 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit

Last edited by slothrop on Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:36 pm; edited 3 times in total
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