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Ahn Chul-Soo - the next Korean president?
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm curious how long you've been tracking Korean affairs - from the sound of it, not long.

You really think things are "messy" now? How about when the North launched attacks on the Blue House? Bombed airliners and diplomatic missions?

Oh, but I suppose nothing bad happened when Leftists were in power, right? You willing to try to throw that bull out there?



The truth is, the North attacked the South even when there were "Doves" in office.... Oh, and they were working on a nuclear program at the time as well.

The ONE difference is how the SK gov perceived and presented it. Was your son killed in a naval battle? Best not talk about it or you'll have DJ's/Noh's goons come to your door and tell you how you're damaging Korean relations.


So, perhaps you thought things were better years ago - when those that we're killed by the North's aggression simply had to shut up.

Yeah, maybe if Chung Dong Young was in office at the time of the Geumgang resort shooting, things would hav eplayed out different.

I'm sure he would have been "more flexible" and offered to return their spent bullet.
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tiger fancini



Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maximmm wrote:
tiger fancini wrote:


Tensions have increased under 2MB's government, but in my view that's because he has actually used a somewhat tough approach with the north compared with previous Presidents. I say somewhat tough, because it's still the north who are doing the killing and using the REALLY tough rhetoric. Naval officers, civilians and tourists from the south have all died at the hands of the north during the last 5 years, with little to no apology.

As pointed out, nobody really has any clue on what is going on up there. One can only make guesses. But in my mind, to even consider that the Kim regime would accept any form of unification that it did not control totally is pretty ridiculous.


I agree that 2MB's tough approach is the cause of the increase in tensions between the two countries.


Agree with who? I certainly didn't say that 2MB's approach is the cause of the increase in tensions.

Where exactly do you think things stood before 2MB too office? Close to a peaceful co-existance? As Captain Corea suggested, perhaps you should take a closer look at the historical facts of what's been going on during the last 60 years on the peninsula. Next you'll be telling us that it was the south that attempted unification by force back in 1950....
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maximmm



Joined: 01 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bah, it would seem that the first nuclear test took place prior to 2MB taking office.

My apologies.

Looking at the history of the relationship between the two countries, it would seem that Koreas were the closest to reunification in 1991 and it all fell apart after Kim Jong Il came to power in 1994.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Possibly, Kim Il Sung was looking to make a get together before he died, and that got... Postponed.

When you talk about "being closer to unification" though, I think you're grasping at the wind. Sure, the SK public might have felt closer to the DPRK over the decade of DJ/Noh, but unification was no where close.

My apologies if I've come across as a bit strong on this - its just that it's a topic that get trotted out every month or so. Sure, I know there is an ideological divide on the issue, and I actually can see the various points of view. I just get bothered by (some) ppl conveniently showing only one side.

As I've mentioned in this thread already, even the ROK/DPRK relationship isn't that simple.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Agree with who? I certainly didn't say that 2MB's approach is the cause of the increase in tensions.

Where exactly do you think things stood before 2MB too office? Close to a peaceful co-existance? As Captain Corea suggested, perhaps you should take a closer look at the historical facts of what's been going on during the last 60 years on the peninsula. Next you'll be telling us that it was the south that attempted unification by force back in 1950....


I pretty much agree with this. I would go further:

Lee Myung-Bak did not create the tension between North and South. As I see it, the Norks tried everything in their power to influence the election last time around to encourage the election of a 'liberal'. They failed, and subsequently tried to punish South Korea for failure to follow the party line.

I would like to mention that in 1950, it was the US who tried to reunify the peninsula and that it was the Chinese who stopped it. And it is the Chinese who continue to stop it.
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maximmm



Joined: 01 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Quote:
Agree with who? I certainly didn't say that 2MB's approach is the cause of the increase in tensions.

Where exactly do you think things stood before 2MB too office? Close to a peaceful co-existance? As Captain Corea suggested, perhaps you should take a closer look at the historical facts of what's been going on during the last 60 years on the peninsula. Next you'll be telling us that it was the south that attempted unification by force back in 1950....


I pretty much agree with this. I would go further:

Lee Myung-Bak did not create the tension between North and South. As I see it, the Norks tried everything in their power to influence the election last time around to encourage the election of a 'liberal'. They failed, and subsequently tried to punish South Korea for failure to follow the party line.

I would like to mention that in 1950, it was the US who tried to reunify the peninsula and that it was the Chinese who stopped it. And it is the Chinese who continue to stop it.


Following the surrender of the Empire of Japan in September 1945, American administrators divided the peninsula along the 38th parallel, with U.S. military forces occupying the southern half and Soviet military forces occupying the northern half.[11]

The failure to hold free elections throughout the Korean Peninsula in 1948 deepened the division between the two sides; the North established a communist government, while the South established a capitalist one. The 38th parallel increasingly became a political border between the two Korean states. Although reunification negotiations continued in the months preceding the war, tension intensified. Cross-border skirmishes and raids at the 38th Parallel persisted. The situation escalated into open warfare when North Korean forces invaded South Korea on 25 June 1950.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

sources:

^ Boose, Donald W. (Winter 1995–96). Portentous Sideshow: The Korean Occupation Decision. . Parameters: US Army War College Quarterly (US Army War College) 5 (4): 112–129. OCLC 227845188.

^ a b Devine, Robert A.; Breen, T.H; Frederickson, George M; Williams, R Hal; Gross, Adriela J; Brands, H.W (2007). America Past and Present. II: Since 1865 (8th ed.). Pearson Longman. pp. 819–821. ISBN 0-321-44661-5.

I suspect the Soviet Union have been just as pleased to reunify Korea under its rule. When North Korea invaded the south, that too could be seen as a move to forcefully reunify Korea under its own regime.
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fermentation



Joined: 22 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maximmm wrote:
Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Quote:
Agree with who? I certainly didn't say that 2MB's approach is the cause of the increase in tensions.

Where exactly do you think things stood before 2MB too office? Close to a peaceful co-existance? As Captain Corea suggested, perhaps you should take a closer look at the historical facts of what's been going on during the last 60 years on the peninsula. Next you'll be telling us that it was the south that attempted unification by force back in 1950....


I pretty much agree with this. I would go further:

Lee Myung-Bak did not create the tension between North and South. As I see it, the Norks tried everything in their power to influence the election last time around to encourage the election of a 'liberal'. They failed, and subsequently tried to punish South Korea for failure to follow the party line.

I would like to mention that in 1950, it was the US who tried to reunify the peninsula and that it was the Chinese who stopped it. And it is the Chinese who continue to stop it.


Following the surrender of the Empire of Japan in September 1945, American administrators divided the peninsula along the 38th parallel, with U.S. military forces occupying the southern half and Soviet military forces occupying the northern half.[11]

The failure to hold free elections throughout the Korean Peninsula in 1948 deepened the division between the two sides; the North established a communist government, while the South established a capitalist one. The 38th parallel increasingly became a political border between the two Korean states. Although reunification negotiations continued in the months preceding the war, tension intensified. Cross-border skirmishes and raids at the 38th Parallel persisted. The situation escalated into open warfare when North Korean forces invaded South Korea on 25 June 1950.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

sources:

^ Boose, Donald W. (Winter 1995–96). Portentous Sideshow: The Korean Occupation Decision. . Parameters: US Army War College Quarterly (US Army War College) 5 (4): 112–129. OCLC 227845188.

^ a b Devine, Robert A.; Breen, T.H; Frederickson, George M; Williams, R Hal; Gross, Adriela J; Brands, H.W (2007). America Past and Present. II: Since 1865 (8th ed.). Pearson Longman. pp. 819–821. ISBN 0-321-44661-5.

I suspect the Soviet Union have been just as pleased to reunify Korea under its rule. When North Korea invaded the south, that too could be seen as a move to forcefully reunify Korea under its own regime.


Not sure what you're trying to prove with that wiki qoute. The closest Korea's been to reunification was when UN forces almost had the entire peninsula before the PVA got involved.
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maximmm



Joined: 01 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not trying to prove who was closest to reunification - just stating that attempts to 'liberate' or reunify via invasion were made by both countries, but the Korean war, or what can also be called a move to invade/occupy/liberate Korea, according to the sources listed was started by NK (Soviet forces).

As for peaceful reunification -
1946 - A US-USSR Joint-Commission on the formation of a Korean Government is dissolved
1947 - The United Nations establishes the UN Temporary Commission on Korea
May 10, 1948 - UN sponsored elections are held in South Korea.
August 15, 1948 - South Korea is established
September 9, 1948 - North Korea is established

It seems to me that this could be called the moment when the two Koreas were the closest to reunification, but then again, this could also be called the moment when the two Koreas split up.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I said before, I don't think it matters what the South does or says, it's what the North wants ...

Pyongyang rejects Seoul’s food aid

Quote:
North Korea yesterday turned down the South’s offer of emergency relief aid to the flood-hit regime, reversing its recent response to accept the aid two days ago.

“Yesterday we sent a message elaborating on the items and quantities to the North,” an official at the Ministry of Unification said, “However, this afternoon, the North sent a reply, saying, ‘We don’t need that kind of offer.’?” The South Korean government said in the message they would send 10,000 metric tons of flour, three million packs of instant noodles and medicine, adding that they could still negotiate with the North over other items.

“We feel sorry that the North rejected the offer,” the official said. “But we still keep offering other humanitarian aid, regardless of military or political affairs.” The Unification Minister Yu Woo-ik said on Friday at a parliamentary hearing that the government proposed to send aid to the North on Sept. 3. The North sent a reply on Monday through the inter-Korean Red Cross channel at the border village Panmunjom, saying they would accept the aid and asked which items the South would offer.

Last summer, the South Korean government tried to offer so-called “nutritional aid,” such as noodles, but the North didn’t respond. They demanded rice and cement. The South refused for fear that the aid would go directly to the communist military.
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fermentation



Joined: 22 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone else getting tired of hearing how Ahn "might run?" just anyday now? He should just come out run already if he's going to and stop teasing everybody.

Quote:
Pyongyang rejects Seoul’s food aid


I'd wish they didn't offer aid in the first place. My taxes shouldn't be going to the enemy.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, if I was the DP candidate, I'd be pissed at Ahn. These guys are going through a primary... and then he figures he'll just waltz in after, and someone has to bow out.

That being said, I think Ahn has the best chance against Park. Park, IMO, has a weakness in real world experience, especially in business. He should seize on that.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A strong policy on North Korea involves growing business ties with China. A strong SK-China relationship while maintaining the US-SK alliance is at the heart of isolating and defeating the NK regime. Not making strong "displays" whenever NK lobs some shells.

100 billion dollars of Chinese whathaveyou in South Korea is worth more in deterrence than military might.

Drawing a line in the sand is so 20th century.

I think KJU is kind of reading the writing on the wall when it comes to this and that's why there have been vague noises about economic reform. If NK doesn't get Chinese investment (not just aid money) into it, they will be left by the wayside as economic reality dictates that SK is a closer ally than NK. Money Talks.
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goreality



Joined: 09 Jul 2009

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the indecisive king finally made his move. I would hate to play chess with the guy. Now he is going to wait before 'surprising everyone' by uniting with the DUP. If not, that nice lady will probably win.

Anyway for those wondering about sunshine policy here is an interesting quote from the wikipedia article on it:

Quote:
Michael Horowitz of the Hudson Institute had this to say:
When East Germany collapsed and they opened up the Stasi files in East Germany, they found as many as 30,000 West Germans who were implicated; they were receiving payments. [In] some cases [they] were spies. They were in journalism, they were in the churches, they were in the business community, they were in the universities, they were in the political community. And I believe in South Korea today, large numbers of people wake up every morning and they may talk about Sunshine Policy, but the first thing in their mind is, "Whatever happens, keep those files in North Korea locked. Because if Kim Jong Il loses power, I will go to jail or I will be disgraced." And I think Kim Jong Il has got many influential South Koreans - and we will know the truth of this before long - subject to blackmail.
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Unposter



Joined: 04 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't you just love those guilt by association smear campaigns (the Michael Harrington hit piece). There is absolutely no shred of evidence - just the assumption that something must be wrong.

This is about what I would expect from the media today. Pathetic. And, I don't blame the journalists - there are some good ones out there - I blame the publishing companies and the owners of media outlets. The types of articles they choose - well - let's just say they aren't in the "information" business.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gotta love his delay tactics..

Running for president? I'll tell ya in a bit... Maybe.

Plan when president? Make Korea good.

How? I'll tell ya later.

Laughing
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