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Olympic Thread
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Panda



Joined: 25 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stilicho25 wrote:

Of course nationalism doesn't detract from the tv ratings. That was, I believe, another poster's point. People watch because they are nationalistic, not sports fans. The modern Olympics upholds many of the worst ideals of our time. Overspending, rabid nationalism, commercialism and consumerism run amok. (Not to mention all the politics that go on behind the scenes when bidding on hosting the event and all the PED issues.) Having said that, the Olympics are also a unique chance to watch sports that are usually not televised. I get annoyed with commercialism and the politics and such, but I like watching those less popular sports.


I think people think way too much than they should when it comes to nationalism, why won't you just take it as a hormone rush in your body, a natural phenomenon: people get high after watching a beautiful game supporting the team they want to, it's a wonderful feeling (that's why you watch games even you don't play).

People here in Busan will take their families and fried chicken and beers to watch Lotte Giants, wouldn't it be the same if they were at home? no, because they can't get high at home as they will in the stadium, with all the other high people around them. Similarly, people cheer for their own countries, because that's the best way to feel good at that very moment ( do you think they really care much about the medals?) .

Commercials are good for all sports, 1000000 thanks to Americans who turned the Olympics into a financially successful event in 1984, without their ideas, The Olympics would not have been prosperous as it is now.

In the end, corruptions are everywhere like STD, but nobody will quit sex just because they are afraid of STD.
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Mr. BlackCat



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cj1976 wrote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/30/south-korean-fencer-protest-olympic

This is just embarrassing.


We've had only 3 full days of competition at the Olympics and how many major controversies have been presented by Koreans so far? I count at least 3. Park's DQ (and strange reinstatement), the Korean decrying his loss in Judo and now this in fencing. I haven't heard of these because I happen to live in South Korea. They're major controversies that people around the world are talking about. And it's the same at every Olympics and WC. What an embarrassment. It indicates a sense of entitlement I see every day here, especially in the classroom.

Then look at the other controversies at these Games so far:

-The 16 year old Chinese swimmer who miraculously cut 5 seconds off her personal best and swam faster than Lochte (a full grown man) to beat the world record.

-The North Korean weightlifter who shattered his personal best and came out of nowhere to also win gold with a world record.

-Japan's inexplicable bump up to silver in gymnastics which no one can figure out.

Now, controversies and cheaters come from all corners of the world, but it is odd how the majority of them seem to come from one corner in particular. Before anyone pulls out the 'R' word, I'm not blaming it on race but on culture. When you come from a place where it's ok to 'bend' the rules in your favour as long as you don't get caught (and oftentimes even if you do), then of course you're going to assume everyone else is cheating when they beat you.
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sml7285



Joined: 26 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. BlackCat wrote:
cj1976 wrote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/30/south-korean-fencer-protest-olympic

This is just embarrassing.


We've had only 3 full days of competition at the Olympics and how many major controversies have been presented by Koreans so far? I count at least 3. Park's DQ (and strange reinstatement), the Korean decrying his loss in Judo and now this in fencing. I haven't heard of these because I happen to live in South Korea. They're major controversies that people around the world are talking about. And it's the same at every Olympics and WC. What an embarrassment. It indicates a sense of entitlement I see every day here, especially in the classroom.

Then look at the other controversies at these Games so far:

-The 16 year old Chinese swimmer who miraculously cut 5 seconds off her personal best and swam faster than Lochte (a full grown man) to beat the world record.

-The North Korean weightlifter who shattered his personal best and came out of nowhere to also win gold with a world record.

-Japan's inexplicable bump up to silver in gymnastics which no one can figure out.

Now, controversies and cheaters come from all corners of the world, but it is odd how the majority of them seem to come from one corner in particular. Before anyone pulls out the 'R' word, I'm not blaming it on race but on culture. When you come from a place where it's ok to 'bend' the rules in your favour as long as you don't get caught (and oftentimes even if you do), then of course you're going to assume everyone else is cheating when they beat you.


Competitors from Asia get tested for performance enhancing drugs just like the rest of the world's competitors. As for bribery, I've only heard whispers about a potential scandal involving the 2002 referee, but seeing as FIFA hasn't felt the need to punish the Korean team, I withhold judgement until I read more about it.

The girl went a 4:28.43.... much slower than Lochte's 4:05.18. You do realize that they keep separate world records for men and women, right?

It's the Olympics; people come out of nowhere all the time to win. I remember watching Greco-Roman wrestling in 2000, when Aleksandr Karelin, who hadn't lost a match in 13 years and hadn't given up a single point in six years lost to a relatively unknown Rulon Gardner.
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cj1976



Joined: 26 Oct 2005

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Swiss footballer got booted out of the tournament after calling South Korea "a bunch of mongoloids".
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sml7285



Joined: 26 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cj1976 wrote:
A Swiss footballer got booted out of the tournament after calling South Korea "a bunch of mongoloids".


And a Greek triple jumper got booted for stating that "with so many Africans in Greece, the West Nile mosquitoes will be getting home food!!!"

What's your point?
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cj1976



Joined: 26 Oct 2005

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sml7285 wrote:
cj1976 wrote:
A Swiss footballer got booted out of the tournament after calling South Korea "a bunch of mongoloids".


And a Greek triple jumper got booted for stating that "with so many Africans in Greece, the West Nile mosquitoes will be getting home food!!!"

What's your point?


I didn't have a point. I was just adding to the reported list of controversies. What's your problem?
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cj1976



Joined: 26 Oct 2005

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The girl went a 4:28.43.... much slower than Lochte's 4:05.18. You do realize that they keep separate world records for men and women, right?"

I think you missed the point about the Chinese swimmer. In the last 50m she swam faster than US star Ryan Lochte in the men's event. That is what is raising suspicion. That and her massive improvement over the last 12 months.
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sml7285



Joined: 26 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cj1976 wrote:
sml7285 wrote:
cj1976 wrote:
A Swiss footballer got booted out of the tournament after calling South Korea "a bunch of mongoloids".


And a Greek triple jumper got booted for stating that "with so many Africans in Greece, the West Nile mosquitoes will be getting home food!!!"

What's your point?


I didn't have a point. I was just adding to the reported list of controversies. What's your problem?


Sorry - had you mixed up with Blackcat who's been going on and on about some sort of Dan Brown-esque conspiracy theory about Asian athletes.
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cj1976



Joined: 26 Oct 2005

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think Blackcat's observations were that outlandish. China does have a history of doping offences, and would you be surprised if North Korea were juicing their athletes this soon after the Supreme Leader coming into power?
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sml7285



Joined: 26 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cj1976 wrote:
I don't think Blackcat's observations were that outlandish. China does have a history of doping offences, and would you be surprised if North Korea were juicing their athletes this soon after the Supreme Leader coming into power?


There have been over 70,000 drug tests carried out worldwide in the past six months by the World Anti-Doping Agency and there are some 6,000 planned tests during the Olympics.

Those athletes could dope all they want - they'd get caught. If an athlete, regardless of country of origin, wins a medal and passes a drug test, he/she has won it without doping in my book.
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cj1976



Joined: 26 Oct 2005

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sml7285 wrote:
cj1976 wrote:
I don't think Blackcat's observations were that outlandish. China does have a history of doping offences, and would you be surprised if North Korea were juicing their athletes this soon after the Supreme Leader coming into power?


There have been over 70,000 drug tests carried out worldwide in the past six months by the World Anti-Doping Agency and there are some 6,000 planned tests during the Olympics.

Those athletes could dope all they want - they'd get caught. If an athlete, regardless of country of origin, wins a medal and passes a drug test, he/she has won it without doping in my book.


Experts in competitive swimming know the limits of what an athlete can achieve over time. If they think something is wrong, then there very well might be.
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Mr. BlackCat



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sml7285 wrote:
cj1976 wrote:
sml7285 wrote:
cj1976 wrote:
A Swiss footballer got booted out of the tournament after calling South Korea "a bunch of mongoloids".


And a Greek triple jumper got booted for stating that "with so many Africans in Greece, the West Nile mosquitoes will be getting home food!!!"

What's your point?


I didn't have a point. I was just adding to the reported list of controversies. What's your problem?


Sorry - had you mixed up with Blackcat who's been going on and on about some sort of Dan Brown-esque conspiracy theory about Asian athletes.


Relax, I'm not implying a conspiracy. My point is that controversy seems to follow a certain number of countries. You could add Russia to my list, too. A conspiracy implies that there are people working behind the scenes to screw people over. I think my point was almost the opposite. Koreans in particular see conspiracies where there are none, creating controversies. As for China and North Korea, they don't exactly have the best reputation with doping.

I'm not saying the rest of the world is clean and fair, I'm just saying an unusual high amount of problems seem to come from a particular corner of it. The stories thus far from London seem to support this position. And this ain't the first time. The Korean girl crying and refusing to leave the fencing area? Same thing happened in 1988 boxing. Name another country who does this stuff.
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sml7285



Joined: 26 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cj1976 wrote:
sml7285 wrote:
cj1976 wrote:
I don't think Blackcat's observations were that outlandish. China does have a history of doping offences, and would you be surprised if North Korea were juicing their athletes this soon after the Supreme Leader coming into power?


There have been over 70,000 drug tests carried out worldwide in the past six months by the World Anti-Doping Agency and there are some 6,000 planned tests during the Olympics.

Those athletes could dope all they want - they'd get caught. If an athlete, regardless of country of origin, wins a medal and passes a drug test, he/she has won it without doping in my book.


Experts in competitive swimming know the limits of what an athlete can achieve over time. If they think something is wrong, then there very well might be.


Most competitors don't taper until the Olympics. That's why there are so many world records that last for four years and are simultaneously broken at the Olympics.

I was a semi-serious swimmer who was getting some looks by a few Ivy League schools and could've walked on to most D1 schools. Pre-taper, I would consistently pull in high-48, low-49 times on the 100 Free. Post taper, I'd go 47-low. That's about a second and a half drop in a full sprint. I had some meets where the coach would make us do a modified partial practice of 4000 yards or so about two hours before the start of a meet.

World class athletes don't rest going into most competitions. That's why records are typically shattered at the Olympics.
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sml7285



Joined: 26 Apr 2012

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. BlackCat wrote:
sml7285 wrote:
cj1976 wrote:
sml7285 wrote:
cj1976 wrote:
A Swiss footballer got booted out of the tournament after calling South Korea "a bunch of mongoloids".


And a Greek triple jumper got booted for stating that "with so many Africans in Greece, the West Nile mosquitoes will be getting home food!!!"

What's your point?


I didn't have a point. I was just adding to the reported list of controversies. What's your problem?


Sorry - had you mixed up with Blackcat who's been going on and on about some sort of Dan Brown-esque conspiracy theory about Asian athletes.


Relax, I'm not implying a conspiracy. My point is that controversy seems to follow a certain number of countries. You could add Russia to my list, too. A conspiracy implies that there are people working behind the scenes to screw people over. I think my point was almost the opposite. Koreans in particular see conspiracies where there are none, creating controversies. As for China and North Korea, they don't exactly have the best reputation with doping.

I'm not saying the rest of the world is clean and fair, I'm just saying an unusual high amount of problems seem to come from a particular corner of it. The stories thus far from London seem to support this position. And this ain't the first time. The Korean girl crying and refusing to leave the fencing area? Same thing happened in 1988 boxing. Name another country who does this stuff.


Fencing rules state that once an athlete leaves the fencing area, he/she waives all rights to appeal a decision. What was she supposed to do?
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cj1976



Joined: 26 Oct 2005

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sml7285 wrote:
Mr. BlackCat wrote:
sml7285 wrote:
cj1976 wrote:
sml7285 wrote:
cj1976 wrote:
A Swiss footballer got booted out of the tournament after calling South Korea "a bunch of mongoloids".


And a Greek triple jumper got booted for stating that "with so many Africans in Greece, the West Nile mosquitoes will be getting home food!!!"

What's your point?


I didn't have a point. I was just adding to the reported list of controversies. What's your problem?


Sorry - had you mixed up with Blackcat who's been going on and on about some sort of Dan Brown-esque conspiracy theory about Asian athletes.


Relax, I'm not implying a conspiracy. My point is that controversy seems to follow a certain number of countries. You could add Russia to my list, too. A conspiracy implies that there are people working behind the scenes to screw people over. I think my point was almost the opposite. Koreans in particular see conspiracies where there are none, creating controversies. As for China and North Korea, they don't exactly have the best reputation with doping.

I'm not saying the rest of the world is clean and fair, I'm just saying an unusual high amount of problems seem to come from a particular corner of it. The stories thus far from London seem to support this position. And this ain't the first time. The Korean girl crying and refusing to leave the fencing area? Same thing happened in 1988 boxing. Name another country who does this stuff.


Fencing rules state that once an athlete leaves the fencing area, he/she waives all rights to appeal a decision. What was she supposed to do?


Not sit crossed-leg on the floor bawling her eyes out like a 6 year old who has just been denied an ice cream. FFS have some dignity in the face of adversity. Look at the British gymnasts for an example.
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