Site Search:
 
Speak Korean Now!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

War drums for Isreal and Iran
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 7, 8, 9 ... 14, 15, 16  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Junior



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

actionjackson wrote:
Israel does just enough to make sure they keep them alive so nobody gets upset about any deaths.


Thats only what the arabs want you to believe.

Quote:
How Many Millionaires Live in the "Impoverished" Gaza Strip?
by Khaled Abu Toameh
August 30, 2012 at 4:30 am

If the Egyptian army succeeds in demolishing the underground smuggling tunnels that keep Hamas running, it could mark the end of the Islamists' rule over the Gaza Strip. But if Egypt's new president, Mohamed Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood tie the hands of the Egyptian army's generals and keep them from completing the mission, Hamas will become even stronger and wealthier.

The world often thinks of the Gaza Strip, home to 1.4 million Palestinians, as one of the poorest places on earth, where people live in misery and squalor.

But according to an investigative report published in the pan-Arab newspaper Asharq Al-Awsat, there are at least 600 millionaires living in the Gaza Strip. The newspaper report also refutes the claim that the Gaza Strip has been facing a humanitarian crisis because of an Israeli blockade.

Mohammed Dahlan, the former Palestinian Authority security commander of the Gaza Strip, further said last week that Hamas was the only party that was laying siege to the Gaza Strip; that it is Hamas, and not Israel or Egypt, that is strangling and punishing the people there.

The Palestinian millionaires, according to the report, have made their wealth thanks to the hundreds of underground tunnels along the border between the Gaza Strip and Egypt.

Informed Palestinian sources revealed that every day, in addition to weapons, thousands of tons of fuel, medicine, various types of merchandise, vehicles, electrical appliances, drugs, medicine and cigarettes are smuggled into the Gaza Strip through more than 400 tunnels. A former Sudanese government official who visited the Gaza Strip lately was quoted as saying that he found basic goods that were not available in Sudan. Almost all the tunnels are controlled by the Hamas government, which has established a special commission to oversee the smuggling business, which makes the Hamas government the biggest benefactor of the smuggling industry.

Palestinians estimate that 25% of the Hamas government's budget comes from taxes imposed on the owners of the underground tunnels.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3308/gaza-millionaires


The fact is that islamic states- israels enemies- treat their own far far worse, not to mention their ethnic minorities.


Quote:
How Iran treats minority groups

Persecution of members of the Mandaean Religion in Iran
The Mandaeans in Iran primarily occupy an area of the city of Ahwaz called Khuzistan. Ahwaz lies close to the border with Iraq, and its population is overwhelmingly Shi’ite Moslem.

The Mandaean religion is not recognised as a legal religion under Article 13 of the Iranian Constitution. Consequently they are discriminated against in all policy decisions:

In Iran, particularly severe persecution of minority religions, including executions of Mandaeans and of Baha’is, continues.

All religious minorities suffer varying degrees of officially sanctioned discrimination, particularly in the areas of employment, education and housing.

Recognised religious minorities are second class citizens. Non-believers and non recognised religions are deprived of any rights.

The following are examples of incidents which characterise everyday life for Mandaeans in Iran. The intensity of these acts varies and the consequences can be very severe.

“Uncleanliness”
The Mandaeans are considered unclean by Moslems, and encounter difficulties when shopping. They are not allowed to touch a Moslem or work in the food industry as they are perceived to render unclean everything they touch. A Mandaean who accidentally touches an item may be confronted with the demand to buy the entire stock as it has been rendered ‘unclean’.

Disruption of Mandaean family life: forced marriage and sexual assault
In her most recent report to Amnesty International, Professor J.J. Buckley -- an internationally recognised specialist on the Mandaean religion -- has stressed that “the attempt to destroy Mandaean families is increasing, but with a particular focus on women and young girls.” The Mandaean Human Rights Committee has also documented that the Iranian authorities attempt to break up Mandaean families with a particular focus on women and children, pressuring them to convert to Islam and pressuring women to marry Moslem men. Further reports, including those produced by ASUTA (the Journal for the Study and Research into the Mandaean Culture, Religion and Language) indicate that Mandaean parents fear that their children will be kidnapped, and forcibly circumcised, converted to Islam, raped or forcibly married. Regarding the rape of Mandaean girls and women, several reports suggest that Islamic judges would hold that a Moslem male who raped a Mandaean female would be understood to have “purified” her. Accordingly, the Sabian Mandaean Association reports that Mandaean girls have been raped with impunity by Moslem men.

Professor Buckley stresses that Mandaean widows are pressured to marry Moslem men, and that widows have been subject to sexual attacks. Further, Professor Buckley highlights that “[s]ome Mandaean families have begun to marry their very young daughters to fellow-Mandaeans, in order to prevent forced conversions to Islam, thus depriving the girls of the chance to finish their education.” This trend is supported by reports produced by the Mandaean Research Centre, and was also referred to during an interview with a Mandaean from Ahwaz who stated that “[m]any Mandaeans are being forced to marry their daughters at a very young age in order to protect them from being kidnapped off the streets by the local Moslems.”

Medical Assistance
It is difficult for Mandaeans to receive medical assistance due to the view that they are unclean. If a Moslem practitioner treats a Mandaean, the doctor is believed to be rendered unclean and will not be able to treat Moslem patients. However it is difficult to see Mandaean doctors as their qualifications from overseas are not recognized within the Islamic Republic of Iran, and they are often therefore forced to hide the fact that they are Mandaeans in order to be able to work as health professionals. It is important to note that reports consistently indicate that while the older generation of Mandaeans was able to study in universities prior to the Islamic Revolution, Mandaeans’ access to universities is currently severely restricted, and therefore it is almost entirely impossible for Mandaeans to study medicine. In terms of compensation for injury, the US State Department indicates that “the legal system discriminates against religious minorities, awarding lower monetary compensation in injury and death lawsuits.”

Desecration of Mandaean Cemetery and Other Sites of Religious Significance
Just as many historic Baha’i gravesites have been desecrated or destroyed, on the 4th October 1988 the Islamic regime in Iran confiscated the Mandi (church) in Ahwaz and converted it into headquarters for the Islamic religious police. Eleven years later, in 1999, a Mandaean cemetery was ploughed up, bodies disposed of, tarred over and used for Islamic purposes. Further, Professor Buckley also documents that in 2001, the Mandaean graveyard in Ahwaz was partially destroyed by bulldozers at the order of city officials. In addition to the destruction of these sites of religious and personal significance to the Mandaeans, Amnesty International has received reports from the Sabian Mandaean Association indicating that rivers are being polluted with sewerage and paraffin in order to prevent baptism ceremonies (baptism is central to the Mandaean religion) from taking place.



In reality the muslim world does not want a peaceful settlement in the west bank or Gaza under any circumstances. They're not interested in peace, they just want to keep picking the wound. If it were otherwise, why have palestinian leaders including Arafat consistently torpedoed even the most advantageous and reasonable of peace initiatives?

Quote:
President Clinton had been working on a compromise for years; after the Monica Lewinsky scandal, he had called this effort part of his "personal journey of atonement." Bush had been briefed on the collapse of the talks and was baffled by Yasir Arafat, the leader of the Palestinian Authority. "Explain one thing to me," he said to Bandar. "I cannot believe somebody will not strike a deal with two desperate people."

When Bandar asked what Bush meant by "desperate," Bush explained: President Clinton had been eager to leave office with a settlement in the Middle East, and Israel's Prime Minister, Ehud Barak, needed a deal to survive the next election. Bush said that he didn't think Arafat really wanted to solve the problem. Bandar believed that Arafat's failure to accept the deal in January of 2001 was a tragic mistake - a crime, really. Yet to say so publicly would damage the Palestinian cause, which had been championed by the Saudis, who would then lose any leverage they still had. Bush told Bandar that, unlike Clinton, he did not intend to intervene aggressively.

Bandar left the meeting even more distressed. At the end of the Clinton Presidency, Bandar had received confidential assurances from Colin Powell, the Secretary of State-designate, that he was to relay to Arafat: the Middle East deal made by Clinton that the new Administration endorsed would be enforced. Powell warned that the "peace process" would be different under Bush. Bush would not spend hours on the telephone, and Camp David was not going to become a motel. The message was clear, and until the end Bandar had continued to hope: it appeared that Arafat would get almost everything he wanted, and that Bush's Administration, which Bandar saw as more tough-minded than Clinton's, would stand behind the agreement.

"I still have not recovered, to be honest with you, inside, from the magnitude of the missed opportunity that January," Bandar told me at his home in McLean, Virginia. "Sixteen hundred Palestinians dead so far. And seven hundred Israelis dead. In my judgment, not one life of those Israelis and Palestinians dead is justified."

http://www.saudiembassy.net/files/PDF/03-ST-Bandar-0324-NewYorker.pdf


The fact is that Hamas is out to destroy Israel.

Quote:
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2012/10/18/Hamas-film-to-portray-capture-of-Shalit/UPI-31011350584659/


Hamas film to portray capture of Shalit

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2012/10/18/Hamas-film-to-portray-capture-of-Shalit/UPI-31011350584659/#ixzz2BC4NF98L


Its pretty simple really. No war, no kidnappings= no blockade.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Unibrow



Joined: 20 Aug 2012

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it interesting that you refuted nothing in my post, merely posted unrelated articles.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GENO123



Joined: 28 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just curious: which of Israel's enemies behaves better during war than Israel? Or which counties in the region does Israel behave worse than during wartime? Also among Israel's enemies which is better to their minority groups? How do the other countries in the region treat arab jews? These are all fair questions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ move there. Enjoy being spat on.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Junior



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Israel wants war with Iran over their nuclear program. However, Israel has not signed the NPT, has refused weapons inspectors access to their military sites, and has over 100 nuclear warheads. Iran has fought one war since the state of Israel was founded, a defensive war against Iraq in which thousands were killed and maimed by chemical weapons (weapons supplied by the US, UK, and France, among others)


Iran out to get Israel , not the other way around. Kind of forgetting that Israel even had good relations with Iran before Khomeni came to power.

Iran has been involved in a war against Israel since Khomnen came to power. They used Hizzbollah to hit Israel and even go after Jews in other countries.

Quote:
Since it's foundation, Israel has been at war with nearly every one of it's neighbors. Israel has invaded Egypt, Lebanon, and Syria. Israel illegally occupies territory in Syria and Lebanon, not to mention Palestine. They have turned Gaza into the worlds largest open air prison. Israel uses 80% of Palestinian water. In fact, radical settlers have even attacked the IDF! When a Palestinian throws rocks at an IDF soldier, Israel responds with tanks and artillery. When a settler attacks an IDF soldier, they do not even go to jail.


Israel is out of Lebanon according to the UN , Nice to see someone parroting the official Hizzbollah line.

Since its founding Israel's enemies have been out to get Israel. Israel has made peace with Egypt and Jordan.

There would not even be an occupation now if Araaft had not turned down Bill Clinton's peace plan.

If Hamas weren't out to destroy Israel there wouldn't be a blockade either.

Unibrow wrote:
Israel jails conscientious objectors who refuse to join the IDF. Jewish extremists spit on, throw garbage on, and abuse Palestinians on a daily basis in occupied East Jerusalem. They restrict Palestian access to their own farms, communities, and families while Israelis cruise by on special Israeli only roads. Before criticizing other countries, Israel should look itself in the mirror. When you're comparing yourself to Assad's Syria and Saddam's Iraq to prove your superiority, something is very wrong. You can call your hasbara friends to your defense, but it will do nothing to diminish the fact that Israel is the most agressive and warlike country in the Middle East.


How so? Israel is not out to get the other nations, However the other nations are out to get Israel.


Quote:
Clinton also said he disagreed with President Bush that peace can be achieved only when Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat is gone from power.

Nevertheless, he said it is important for the United States to remain involved because "Israelis believe that America is the only big country that cares if they live or die."

The ex-president said the best solution to the Middle East conflict is an interim settlement that would "establish a Palestinian state now."

But he stressed that the creation of such a state must be preceded by security assurances for Israel and a timetable to resolve other issues.

Clinton said Arafat made a "disastrous mistake" by turning down past peace proposals that would have given the Palestinian leader control of 97 percent of the West Bank.

Yet, Clinton said, "There is reason for hope.

"I think this will be resolved on the terms the Palestinians walked away from...."



-Iran has fought only one war??

Quote:
Iran’s Timeline of Terror
November 4, 1979
Fifty-two American citizens are taken hostage by “students” loyal to Ayatollah Khomeini. They are held for more than a year, until January 20, 1981. The kidnappings are part of the Iranian revolution, which serves as a model for Sunni terrorist groups like Ayman al-Zawahiri’s Egyptian Islamic Jihad.
April 18, 1983
Iran’s master terrorist, Imad Mugniyah, orchestrates the first significant Islamist suicide attack against America: the bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Beirut. Establishing a modus operandi for terrorists in the years to come, the attacker utilizes a van packed with explosives.
October 23, 1983 Using massive truck bombs, Hezbollah’s suicide bombers simultaneously attack the U.S. Marine Barracks and a housing complex for French Paratroopers in Beirut, Lebanon. Al-Qaeda would later adopt simultaneous suicide bombings as its preferred method for committing attacks.
December 12, 1983
Iranian-backed terrorists bomb the U.S. Embassy in Kuwait. A close relative of Imad Mugniyah is convicted by a Kuwaiti court and sentenced to death for his role in the bombing. Other attackers,
also supported by Iran, are imprisoned. The terrorists come to be known as the “Kuwait 17” or “Dawa 17.” 75 iran’s proxy war against america
March 16, 1984
William Buckley, the CIA’s station chief in Beirut, is kidnapped and later tortured-to-death by Imad Mugniyah’s Hezbollah. Buckley’s kidnapping is one in a series of Hezbollah’s kidnappings from the early 1980s through the early 1990s. Dozens of Americans are kidnapped and Hezbollah frequently demands an exchange for the Kuwait 17. Hezbollah’s kidnappings lead to the biggest scandal of President Ronald Reagan’s tenure, the Iran-Contra affair, after the Reagan administration agrees to exchange arms for the hostages.
September 20, 1984
Hezbollah terrorists strike the U.S. Embassy annex in Beirut with a truck bomb.
December 3, 1984
Mugniyah’s operatives hijack Kuwait Airways Flight 221. The hijackers attempt to barter for the release of the Kuwait 17.
June 14, 1985
Mugniyah’s terrorists hijack TWA Flight 847. Once again, the hijackers attempt to barter for the release of the Kuwait 17. When the hijackers’ demands are denied, they beat and kill a U.S. Navy serviceman, Robert Dean Stethem, who happened to be on the flight. Incredibly, Germany granted parole to one of the hijackers in December 2005.

According to Ali Mohamed, a top al-Qaeda operative in U.S. custody, Ayman al-Zawahiri’s Egyptian Islamic Jihad partners with Iran in a planned coup attempt in Egypt. Tehran trains EIJ terrorists for the coup attempt, which is ultimately aborted. Iran also pays al-Zawahiri $2 million for sensitive information concerning 76 national security studies the Egyptian Government’s plans to raid several islands in the Persian Gulf.
1991
Iran and Sudan, then the world’s only Islamist states, forge a strategic alliance. They begin to jointly export terrorism throughout the world.
April 1991
Hassan al-Turabi hosts the first Popular Arab Islamic Conference in Sudan. The conference provides a forum for disparate forces in the Middle East who oppose American presence in the region to come together. Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah, Iraqi and Iranian representatives all attend the meeting.
February 26, 1993
Terrorists connected to al-Qaeda and the global terror network bomb the World Trade Center using a rental truck packed with explosives. The bombers’ colleagues plot a follow-on attack against landmarks in the NYC area. There is no known evidence that Iran had a hand in these events. It is clear, however, that several of the plotters had ties to Hassan al-Turabi’s Sudan. Sheikh Omar Abdel-Rahman, the spiritual leader of the two leading Egyptian terrorist groups (both of which will join al- Qaeda) and who was living in the New York metropolitan area, is later convicted for his involvement in the attacks. Reports surface that he and his organization received financial assistance from Iran.
1993
According to Ali Mohamed, Imad Mugniyah and Osama bin Laden meet in Sudan. Bin Laden expresses his desire to model al- Qaeda after Hezbollah. In particular, bin Laden expresses interest in Mugniyah’s bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Beirut in 1983 77 iran’s proxy war against america and similar attacks. They agree to work together against America and the West.
1993
According to Jamal al-Fadl, an al-Qaeda operative in U.S. custody, bin Laden meets a leading Iranian sheikh in Sudan. The purpose of the meeting is to put aside any differences between their competing brands of Islam in order to come together against their common enemy: the West. The meeting is just the first of several between bin Laden and Iran’s spiritual leaders.
1993
Hezbollah and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps train al- Qaeda’s terrorists in camps in Sudan, Lebanon and Iran. Among the terrorists trained are some of bin Laden’s most trusted lieutenants and al-Qaeda’s future leaders.
1993
Egypt and Algeria cut off diplomatic ties with Iran. Both nations accuse Iran and Sudan of supporting Sunni terrorism, including terrorist groups affiliated with al-Qaeda. Egypt will blame Iran for supporting both the Egyptian Islamic Jihad and the Islamic Group throughout the 1990’s.
November 13, 1995
Two bombs are detonated, nearly simultaneously, at the Saudi National Guard training facility in Riyadh, killing five Americans. The suspects are captured and confess to being inspired by Osama bin Laden. Bin Laden denies responsibility, but praises the attack. It is likely al-Qaeda’s first terrorist attack inside the Saudi Kingdom. 78 national security studies
November 19, 1995
An al-Qaeda suicide bomber destroys the Egyptian Embassy in Islamabad, Pakistan. The CIA’s Bob Baer later learns that Mugniyah’s deputy assisted al-Qaeda in the attack and that one of bin Laden’s top terrorists remained in contact with Mugniyah’s offi ce months afterwards.
May 1996
Bin Laden is expelled from Sudan, but the 9/11 Commission reports that “intelligence indicates the persistance of contacts” between al-Qaeda and Iran even after al-Qaeda’s relocation to Afghanistan. Bin Laden and al-Qaeda maintain an ongoing presence in Sudan, despite not being “formally” welcome.
June 21 - 23, 1996
Tehran hosts a summit for the leading Sunni and Shiite terrorist groups. It is announced that the terrorists will continue to focus on U.S. interests thoughout the region. Mugniyah, bin Laden, and a leading member of the EIJ reportedly forge the “Committee of Three,” under the leadership of Iran’s intelligence chief, to focus their joint efforts against American targets.
June 25, 1996
Hezbollah terrorists, operating under the direction of senior Iranian officials, bomb the Khobar Towers apartment complex in Saudi Arabia. Contemporaneous reports by both the State Department and the CIA note that al-Qaeda is also suspected of playing a role. The 9/11 Commission would later find “indirect evidence” of al-Qaeda’s involvement. The evidence includes intelligence indicating that al-Qaeda was planning a similar operation in the months prior and that bin Laden was congratulated by other al-Qaeda operatives, including Ayman al-Zawahiri, shortly after the attack. 79 iran’s proxy war against america
July 1996
According to Bob Baer, the Egyptian Islamic Group—an ally of bin Laden’s al-Qaeda—is in contact with Mugniyah.
1996
According to Bob Baer, there is “incontrovertible evidence” of a meeting between bin Laden and a representative of the Iranian Ministry of Intelligence and Security (MOIS).
August 7, 1998
Al-Qaeda’s suicide bombers simultaneously destroy the U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. It is al-Qaeda’s most spectacular attack prior to 9/11. The attack is clearly modeled on Hezbollah’s attacks in the early 1980s. Indeed, the al-Qaeda terrorists responsible were trained by Hezbollah in the early 1990s. There is evidence that Iran also provided explosives used in the attack.
October - November 2000
Imad Mugniyah and his lieutenants personally escort several of the 9/11 muscle hijackers out of Saudi Arabia on flights to Beirut and Iran. In all, eight to ten of the hijackers travel through Iran on the way to 9/11.
December 2000
Ramzi Binalshibh, al-Qaeda’s key point man for the 9/11 plot, applies for visa at the Iranian Embassy in Berlin. His visa application is approved.
January 31, 2001
Ramzi Binalshibh arrives at Tehran International airport. He does not return to Germany until February 28, 2001. The purpose of his trip to Iran remains a mystery. The 9/11 Commission does not mention Binalshibh’s trip to Iran. 80 national security studies
Early September 2001
Binalshibh flees to Iran shortly before the 9/11 attacks.
September 11, 2001
Nineteen al-Qaeda hijackers execute al-Qaeda’s largest operation to date, killing nearly 3000 Americans. Many of the details surrounding the plot, including who financed the attack, remain a mystery.
October 2001
According to a high-level Taliban detainee at Gitmo, Iran offers the Taliban Government assistance in retreating from Afghanistan.
October 2001
Numerous press reports indicate that Iran aids the retreat of hundreds of al-Qaeda and Taliban members from Afghanistan. Some al-Qaeda operatives enjoy safehaven in Iran to this day. Among them is Said al-Adel, who is reportedly the third highest ranking member of al-Qaeda and was trained by Hezbollah during the early 1990s, and Saad bin Laden, Osama’s heir apparent.
April 11, 2002
Al-Qaeda carries out the first attack ordered by bin Laden since 9/11: a suicide bomber destroys a synagogue in Tunisia, killing nineteen people. According to NBC News, Saad bin Laden contacted the cell responsible for the attack from his safehaven in Iran. Suleiman Abu Ghaith, bin Laden’s spokesman, also claims al-Qaeda’s responsibility for the attack from his abode in Iran.
End of 2002 - Spring 2003
According to former Director of Central Intelligence George Tenet, senior al-Qaeda leaders discuss the acquisition of nuclear weapons from their safe haven in Iran. In fact, al-Qaeda’s “nuclear 81 iran’s proxy war against america chief,” Abdel al-Aziz al-Masri, is one of many senior terrorists living in Iran.
May 12, 2003
Under orders from Saif al-Adel and Saad bin Laden, who are operating from Iran, al-Qaeda’s terrorists simultaneously strike three separate housing complexes in Riyadh Saudi Arabia. Another al- Qaeda agent thought to be responsible for the attack flees to Iran before he can be captured.
May 16, 2003
One dozen al-Qaeda bombers attack several targets in Casablanca, Morocco. Saad bin Laden, living in Iran, is reportedly in contact with the cell shortly before the attack.
2004 – present
Iran supplies advanced IED technology to the insurgents in Iraq. There is growing evidence of Iranian support for both Sunni and Shiite insurgency groups in Iraq. Iran continues to harbor senior al-Qaeda leaders as the terrorist network reorganizes.
January 20, 2007
IRGC and Hezbollah terrorists kill five American soldiers in Karbala, Iraq
January 2007 – present
Numerous IRGC and Hezbollah terrorists, who are responsible for arming and training terrorist groups in Iraq, are captured by American and Iraqi forces. 82 national security studies.
October 09, 2007
The Claremont Institute. “Iran’s Proxy War Against America, (PDF)” Evidence of Iranian links to al Qaeda and other terrorist groups regardless of their Sunni, Shiite or Palestinian sympathies.

http://demediacraticnation.blogspot.com/2007/10/irans-timeline-of-terror.html


Unibrow wrote:
I find it interesting that you refuted nothing in my post, merely posted unrelated articles.


???
Actually I think I answered everything.

Quote:
Mohammed Dahlan, the former Palestinian Authority security commander of the Gaza Strip, further said last week that Hamas was the only party that was laying siege to the Gaza Strip; that it is Hamas, and not Israel or Egypt, that is strangling and punishing the people there.


http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/9107/610xkj7.jpg


Iran is out to get Israel, not the other way around.

Iran even goes after Jews in other countries.

But some people out there have no problem with that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"out to get"?!?

What is this?

If you want to join these

http://tinyurl.com/2dte49w

religious nuts in their quest for messianic doom then convert, move there and pick up a gun.

Otherwise protect your own interests.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Junior



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
"out to get"?!?

What is this?

If you want to join these

http://tinyurl.com/2dte49w

religious nuts in their quest for messianic doom then convert, move there and pick up a gun.

Otherwise protect your own interests.


Parroting and apologizing for Iran and other radical actors in the middle east isn't protecting my interests. Giving into Iran other radical actors in the mid east isn't in my interests, and it isn't the right thing.

" Out to get"

http://www.engageonline.org.uk/blog/images/1205826451sa.jpg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Unibrow



Joined: 20 Aug 2012

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How come you didn't respond to my point about Israeli nuclear weapons. Why should Israel be the only country in the Middle East allowed to have nuclear weapons?

As far as peace deals go, let's say the roles were reversed. If Palestine offered a deal to Israel that they could be independent, provided they had no military, had their land separated into 3 cantons by Palestinian settlements and roads, and Jews that were expelled from their homes in 1948 were not allowed to return, would Israel be wise to accept this deal? I haven't even touched on issues of water rights and farming access.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Junior



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love your source Titus/ Reggie/ RJJR for your picture..
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/

Quote:
White Idenity, interests culture


Rolling Eyes


Unibrow wrote:
How come you didn't respond to my point about Israeli nuclear weapons. Why should Israel be the only country in the Middle East allowed to have nuclear weapons?


Cause Israel isn't out to get the other countries. Israel isn't out to destroy the arab world or Iran. See peace treaty with Egypt and that fact that Israel used to have good relations with Iran.

Iran is out to get Israel and not the other way around.

Unibrow wrote:
As far as peace deals go, let's say the roles were reversed. If Palestine offered a deal to Israel that they could be independent, provided they had no military, had their land separated into 3 cantons by Palestinian settlements and roads, and Jews that were expelled from their homes in 1948 were not allowed to return, would Israel be wise to accept this deal? I haven't even touched on issues of water rights and farming access.


You are mixing Camp David with Bill Clinton's peace plan.

Arafat was offered a contiguous state. It is false to say he wasn't.

This is what Arafat turned down.

Quote:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,50830,00.html

ROSS: The ideas were presented on December 23 by the president, and they basically said the following: On borders, there would be about a 5 percent annexation in the West Bank for the Israelis and a 2 percent swap. So there would be a net 97 percent of the territory that would go to the Palestinians.
On Jerusalem, the Arab neighborhoods of East Jerusalem would become the capitol of the Palestinian state.
On the issue of refugees, there would be a right of return for the refugees to their own state, not to Israel, but there would also be a fund of $30 billion internationally that would be put together for either compensation or to cover repatriation, resettlement, rehabilitation costs.
And when it came to security, there would be a international presence, in place of the Israelis, in the Jordan Valley.
These were ideas that were comprehensive, unprecedented, stretched very far, represented a culmination of an effort in our best judgment as to what each side could accept after thousands of hours of debate, discussion with each side.
FRED BARNES, WEEKLY STANDARD: Now, Palestinian officials say to this day that Arafat said yes.
ROSS: Arafat came to the White House on January 2. Met with the president, and I was there in the Oval Office. He said yes, and then he added reservations that basically meant he rejected every single one of the things he was supposed to give.
HUME: What was he supposed to give?
ROSS: He supposed to give, on Jerusalem, the idea that there would be for the Israelis sovereignty over the Western Wall, which would cover the areas that are of religious significance to Israel. He rejected that.
HUME: He rejected their being able to have that?
ROSS: He rejected that.
He rejected the idea on the refugees. He said we need a whole new formula, as if what we had presented was non-existent.
He rejected the basic ideas on security. He wouldn't even countenance the idea that the Israelis would be able to operate in Palestinian airspace.
You know when you fly into Israel today you go to Ben Gurion. You fly in over the West Bank because you can't -- there's no space through otherwise. He rejected that.
So every single one of the ideas that was asked of him he rejected.
HUME: Now, let's take a look at the map. Now, this is what -- how the Israelis had created a map based on the president's ideas. And...
ROSS: Right.
HUME: ... what can we -- that situation shows that the territory at least is contiguous. What about Gaza on that map?
ROSS: The Israelis would have gotten completely out of Gaza.
ROSS: And what you see also in this line, they show an area of temporary Israeli control along the border.
HUME: Right.
ROSS: Now, that was an Israeli desire. That was not what we presented. But we presented something that did point out that it would take six years before the Israelis would be totally out of the Jordan Valley.
So that map there that you see, which shows a very narrow green space along the border, would become part of the orange. So the Palestinians would have in the West Bank an area that was contiguous. Those who say there were cantons, completely untrue. It was contiguous.
HUME: Cantons being ghettos, in effect...
ROSS: Right.
HUME: ... that would be cut off from other parts of the Palestinian state.
ROSS: Completely untrue.
And to connect Gaza with the West Bank, there would have been an elevated highway, an elevated railroad, to ensure that there would be not just safe passage for the Palestinians, but free passage.
BARNES: I have two other questions. One, the Palestinians point out that this was never put on paper, this offer. Why not?
ROSS: We presented this to them so that they could record it. When the president presented it, he went over it at dictation speed. He then left the cabinet room. I stayed behind. I sat with them to be sure, and checked to be sure that every single word.
The reason we did it this way was to be sure they had it and they could record it. But we told the Palestinians and Israelis, if you cannot accept these ideas, this is the culmination of the effort, we withdraw them. We did not want to formalize it. We wanted them to understand we meant what we said. You don't accept it, it's not for negotiation, this is the end of it, we withdraw it.
So that's why they have it themselves recorded. And to this day, the Palestinians have not presented to their own people what was available.
BARNES: In other words, Arafat might use it as a basis for further negotiations so he'd get more?
ROSS: Well, exactly.


Jews that were expelled from their homes in 1948 were not allowed to return.

On the issue of refugees, there would be a right of return for the refugees to their own state, not to Israel, but there would also be a fund of $30 billion internationally that would be put together for either compensation or to cover repatriation, resettlement, rehabilitation costs.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,50830,00.html#ixzz2A8O522qe

Anyway in 1948 Israel's enemies would have done the same as Israel or probably worse. They tried to destroy and expel the Jews of the area in 1948.

Why ought that not be considered?

Israel's enemies also sided with the Nazis and tried to help the Nazis try kill the Jews.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6f6b9e2Fv1ruosnao1_500.jpg

http://citizensusa.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/mufti-nazi.jpg

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/muslimssunit.jpg

Why ought that not be considered?

Plus Israels enemies persecuted and expelled arab jews.

http://theoccupation.info/images/NYTimes_1948_Jews_in_Arab.jpg

Ought that not count for something?

For now Israel's enemies, until they change the way they are,- can't really be trusted to govern or protect their minority groups. Until they change and accept liberal democracy, Israel is justified.

Which brings up the following question:

Why don't you tell everyone why every "wrong" committed by Israel ought to count but the wrongs committed by Israel's enemies ought not to count?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am ok with that site. I am white and have interests. How many organizations, media outlets and attackdogs have Jews to defend their interests and cultre? You, a white guy, are ok with us not having similar?

Jews will defend their own interests. You ought to stop worrying about their plight and focus on your own. Get in the game. Aren't you from Rhodesia?

It is not in our interests for us to fight a war for them. We have our own problems to worry about. You really should know that.

If not then convert and be done with it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Unibrow



Joined: 20 Aug 2012

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Junior wrote:


You are mixing Camp David with Bill Clinton's peace plan.

Arafat was offered a contiguous state. It is false to say he wasn't.

This is what Arafat turned down.


Arafat could not possibly have accepted the Camp David offer, so I assume you're talking about Taba. The Taba negotiations were called off by Barak. Although both sides stated that they "have never been closer to reaching an agreement," Barak made it clear that he rejected the Clinton parameters and that he did "not intend to sign any agreement before elections." These are all quotations from well known Israeli sources, I can provide them if you'd like.

To say that Israel isn't out to get anyone is patently false. They have repeatedly invaded and occupied Lebanon. They illegally occupy the Golan Heights and continue to build illegal settlements throughout Palestinian territory. And since withdrawing from Lebanon, they have repeatedly invaded the country, leaving hundreds of thousands homeless, especially in 2006. And after withdrawing from Gaza, they continuously shell, bomb and launch incursions into the region, most notably in 2008. This isn't including the numerous assassinations and bombing raids conducted by Israel over the years.

I'd also like to point out that the only Israeli prime minister to be assassinated in office was assassinated by a radical Jewish terrorist.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GENO123



Joined: 28 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Clinton bemoaned Arafat's 'colossal error' in saying no again
WASHINGTON (AFP) Nov 11, 2004
Yasser Arafat's biggest mistake may have been to reject a peace deal brokered by the United States in 2000, which would have given him much of what he had demanded for the Palestinians for four decades.
Former president Bill Clinton called the late Palestinian leader's move a "colossal error" that led to the election of the hawkish Ariel Sharon as Israel's prime minister and put the peace process back by years.

In a statement extending his condolences for Arafat's death, Clinton said he regretted that in 2000 Arafat had "missed the opportunity" to create a Palestinian nation, adding that he prayed "for the day when the dreams of the Palestinian people for a state and a better life will be realized in a just and lasting peace."

Clinton made his final move in December 2000 and January 2001 -- in the last weeks of his presidency -- to bring together Arafat and the Israeli prime minister of the time, Ehud Barak.




http://www.spacewar.com/2004/041111063236.cwedy0ge.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How Israel treat the Arabs is not material to the topic at hand. Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program. The USA ought not go to war (or starve the people into revolution) for a program that does not exist.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Junior



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
The "international coalition" - meaning the US and Israel - "could be undone". Almost makes we want Israel to attack.


Interesting comment for someone who is supposedly "antiwar".

Titus wrote:
another war to Save the Jews.


Quote:
"recidivist aunty semite"


anti something alright.. not so much anti war, though

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2817030&highlight=#2817030



Unibrow-

Israel does not occupy Lebanon according to the UN.

Quote:
On June 18, 2000, the United Nations affirmed that Israel had withdrawn its forces from Lebanon, in accordance with Resolution 425.[5] Syria and Lebanon disputed the United Nations certification that Israel's withdrawal from Lebanon was complete.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shebaa_farms


There would be no settlements had Arafat accepted Bill Clinton's peace plan. Barak accepted Bill Clinton's peace plan , Arafat turned it down.

Quote:
Clinton, who continued to apply his considerable energy to finding a Middle East solution, came to believe, in December of 2000, that he had finally found a formula for peace; he asked once more for Bandar's help. Bandar's first reaction was not to get involved; the Syrian summit had failed, and talks between Barak and Arafat at Camp David, in July, had collapsed. But when Dennis Ross showed Bandar the President's talking papers Bandar recognized that in its newest iteration the peace plan was a remarkable development. It gave Arafat almost everything he wanted, including the return of about ninety-seven per cent of the land of the occupied territories; all of Jerusalem except the Jewish and Armenian quarters, with Jews preserving the right to worship at the Temple Mount; and a thirty-billion-dollar compensation fund.

http://www.saudiembassy.net/files/PDF/03-ST-Bandar-0324-NewYorker.pdf


Bill Clinton supports this account.

Prince Bandar supports this account.

Arafat turned down Bill Clintons peace plan . Arafat demanded right of return and would not take compensation in lieu of it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Unibrow



Joined: 20 Aug 2012

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I stated before, Barak refused to accept Taba and cancelled the negotiations.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 7, 8, 9 ... 14, 15, 16  Next
Page 8 of 16

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International