Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Democratics and white voters
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fully endorse the right of people of any color to vote for whatever shameless, ignorant, bought-out, selfish, me-first, put money in my pocket politician that panders to them.

I don't see anything wrong with black folks voting for a black man or white folks voting for a white man. I don't see anything wrong with rich white (or black) people voting for corporate welfare and massive tax cuts at the expense of the poor and I don't see anything wrong with poor blacks or po whites voting for individual welfare and massive tax raises at the expense of the rich.

What I can't stand is people who whine and moan that other people or the other side doesn't vote for them. What's next? Complaining that the other team doesn't deliberately through interceptions to your defense?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think what we are not seeing in the high percentage of Black votes in particular is the 'why'?

There are about 40 million Blacks in America. They run the whole gamut as whites do from very poor to uber rich. They are all not one homogeneous culture.
I'd be willing to bet that a Black person from Philadelphia, MS is very different culturally than a Black person from Philadelphia, PA. The same as a White person from both groups.
I think the percentage is down to what the Republicans are doing. Whether they are or not, the Republican party has a very strong reputation amongst Blacks as being anti-Black specifically. It seems to have united 95% Blacks against the party. The same percentage voted for Gore and that race was very racially divisive as well.
If the Republican party weren't seen as being virluntly anti Black, I would imagne that they would get a much bigger share of the black middle and upper middle class votes.
Titus seems to be forgetting or possibly ignoring the reputation of conservatives and Republicans.
You give any group a common enemy and they unite. America was politically divided in the '30s but Hitler united all of us and we worked in unison to win the war.
The Black people voting for a Black guy simply because he's Black is too simplistic and wee bit insulting to Blacks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While Sirius Black has a point with regards to why black support Democrats over Republicans in general elections, one need only look at the data from the 2008 Democratic Primary to see the blatantly obvious racial element involved in Black support for Barack Obama. You can explain away a landslide Black vote victory for Obama in a Democrat/Republican context, but not in a Democratic primary. Clinton won Whites moderately in general, though Whites in a number of states favored Obama, as did whites with higher degrees of education. Obama by contrast won blacks in a complete landslide, taking the Black vote of every single state by huge margins.

Blacks support the Democrats in general because that's where their interests generally lie, but Obama's Black support is something different and more intense than that. Let's just be honest.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So everyone votes their self interest EXCEPT white people?


White people don't actually have a political platform to choose from that does represent their ethnic interests. For example, a party advocating tighter restrictions on both legal and illegal immigration, or the end to affirmative action and minority hiring preferences in the public sector.

If the republicans did that they would probably be able to attract more working class whites, but their paymasters wouldn't allow it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You can explain away a landslide Black vote victory for Obama in a Democrat/Republican context, but not in a Democratic primary. Clinton won Whites moderately in general, though Whites in a number of states favored Obama, as did whites with higher degrees of education. Obama by contrast won blacks in a complete landslide, taking the Black vote of every single state by huge margins.


If I remember right, and I'm pretty sure I do, Hillary Clinton led Obama significantly in the early part of the primaries among black voters. As I understood it, Obama had to prove to blacks that he could attract enough white voters to prove he was a viable candidate. Many black leaders, early on, didn't think America was ready yet. In addition, Hillary was married to 'the first black president'.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
White people don't actually have a political platform to choose from that does represent their ethnic interests.


Are you saying that Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, George W. Bush, and Mitt Romney did not run on platforms that were explicitly, overtly, openly, blatantly and sometimes in-your-face based on white identity politics? (Well, OK. Maybe it was subtle enough that only people who had passed the 4th Grade saw it.)

And aren't you kind of forgetting the David Duke-type candidates?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Quote:
You can explain away a landslide Black vote victory for Obama in a Democrat/Republican context, but not in a Democratic primary. Clinton won Whites moderately in general, though Whites in a number of states favored Obama, as did whites with higher degrees of education. Obama by contrast won blacks in a complete landslide, taking the Black vote of every single state by huge margins.


If I remember right, and I'm pretty sure I do, Hillary Clinton led Obama significantly in the early part of the primaries among black voters. As I understood it, Obama had to prove to blacks that he could attract enough white voters to prove he was a viable candidate. Many black leaders, early on, didn't think America was ready yet. In addition, Hillary was married to 'the first black president'.


Alright, that's one large wad of spittle upon my simple appeal for a moment of honesty. I suspect it may not be the lat, but perhaps I will be surprised.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Unposter



Joined: 04 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we need to split the difference between Sirius Black and Fox on this one.

Let's face it African Americans did not vote for Obama just because he was black, they voted for him because he was the best candidate and he was black.

Sirius had it correct earlier, if it was Herman Cain running, few African-Americans would have voted for him because of political reasons.

Now, given a choice between a candidate who you like and another candidate who you like and is of the same race/religion/state etc... as you, maybe the one with the other connection gets your vote but it still has to be a candidate that you like. Hence, my statement you have to split this one between Sirius and Fox.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unposter wrote:
Sirius had it correct earlier, if it was Herman Cain running, few African-Americans would have voted for him because of political reasons.

How do you know? Sounds to me like you're just making this up. I actually bet Herman Cain would have got a higher % of black votes than Romney did. But hey, let's just keep speculating (since it's such a good use of our time Wink)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
Unposter wrote:
Sirius had it correct earlier, if it was Herman Cain running, few African-Americans would have voted for him because of political reasons.

How do you know? Sounds to me like you're just making this up. I actually bet Herman Cain would have got a higher % of black votes than Romney did. But hey, let's just keep speculating (since it's such a good use of our time Wink)


Did Herman Cain get a higher per centage of black votes than Romney in the GOP primaries? Don't we have a recent example of this?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigverne wrote:
Quote:
So everyone votes their self interest EXCEPT white people?


White people don't actually have a political platform to choose from that does represent their ethnic interests. For example, a party advocating tighter restrictions on both legal and illegal immigration, or the end to affirmative action and minority hiring preferences in the public sector.

If the republicans did that they would probably be able to attract more working class whites, but their paymasters wouldn't allow it.


What collective 'ethnic' interest does all Whites need a platform for? What commonality would a poor White guy from smalltown West Virginia have with a rich White billionaire in NYC?

What has collective voting gotten some Blacks? BLack unemployment rate is horribly high and always has been. White unemployment has always been lower. Its always been lower than Latino unemployment rates as well.

So, I'm a loss to understand what collective platform is needed? Maybe a definition of what you mean by 'collective ethnc interest' is needed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Mitt Romney did not run on platforms that were explicitly, overtly, openly, blatantly and sometimes in-your-face based on white identity politics?


Remind me of the part where he pledged to outlaw affirmative action and other quotas which impact negatively against whites, or his pledge to reduce both illegal and legal immigration.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What commonality would a poor White guy from smalltown West Virginia have with a rich White billionaire in NYC?


Not much, but the white working and middle class do have interests in common. Both the working class and middle class are negatively impacted by affirmative action and hiring policies designed to foster 'diversity' (i.e less whites). Large-scale mass immigration also benefits neither of these groups, though indeed it does benefit the super rich, who are largely white.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigverne wrote:
Quote:
What commonality would a poor White guy from smalltown West Virginia have with a rich White billionaire in NYC?


Not much, but the white working and middle class do have interests in common. Both the working class and middle class are negatively impacted by affirmative action and hiring policies designed to foster 'diversity' (i.e less whites). Large-scale mass immigration also benefits neither of these groups, though indeed it does benefit the super rich, who are largely white.


First of all, quoatas are illegal. Second, I would like to know in what way white working class and middle class are negatively impacted by affirmative action.

White working class and middle class have ALWAYS had a higher employment rate than their black counterparts. I would assume white working class and middle class also have a higher employment rate than their latino counterparts as well. So, immigration has not affected whites either.

So, what is the negative impact?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
First of all, quoatas are illegal. Second, I would like to know in what way white working class and middle class are negatively impacted by affirmative action.


Yes, quotas are illegal, hence the need for quotas by the backdoor via 'diversity.' Affirmative action negatively affects both whites and Asians.

Quote:
So, immigration has not affected whites either.


Really? The mass importation of millions of Mexicans, Indians, Africans, and others willing to work for low wages has had 'no effect' on whites? In fact, not only is such an open immigration policy bad for whites, it is far more detrimental to blacks.

Quote:
So, what is the negative impact?


Wage stagnation, waning political influence, cultural conflict.....what's not to like?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Page 4 of 8

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2013 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International