Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Psy's Recent Popularity
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 18, 19, 20 ... 22, 23, 24  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Off-Topic Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Mr. BlackCat



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
Well it's now number one in the U.K and number 2 in the USA.



http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/music/news/a409196/gangnam-style-storms-to-uk-no1-spot.html


http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/odd/news/a432924/halloween-decorations-sing-psys-gangnam-style-watch.html


Yep MUST be a conspiracy by those evil Koreans....everyone buying 10-20 copies of the song just to push it to the top....

Rolling Eyes

And who knew there were so many Koreans in Finland? (Wiki)


Quote:
In Finland, "Gangnam Style" peaked at number one on the Official Finnish Download Chart in August[178] and debuted at number one on the main chart in September.[179]


Here's the ranks for some other countries (mostly number 1's) and yes they are cited as where these came from.

Guess there must have been a large number of Koreans sent to those countries by the government in order to boost the song's ranking. Rolling Eyes



Quote:
Australia (ARIA)[181] 1
Austria (Ö3 Austria Top 40)[182] 1
Belgium (Ultratop 50 Flanders)[183] 1
Belgium (Ultratop 40 Wallonia)[184] 2
Bulgaria (IFPI)[185] 1
Canada (Canadian Hot 100)[186] 1
Colombia (National-Report)[187] 6
Czech Republic (IFPI)[188] 1
Denmark (Tracklisten)[189] 1
Europe (Euro Digital Songs)[190] 1
Finland (Suomen virallinen lista)[191] 1
France (SNEP)[192] 1
Germany (Media Control AG)[193] 1
Greece Digital Songs (Billboard)[194] 1
Honduras (Honduras Top 50)[195] 1
Hungary (Dance Top 40)[196] 10
Hungary (Rádiós Top 40)[197] 6
Iceland (Tónlist)[198] 3
Ireland (IRMA)[199] 2
Israel (Media Forest)[200] 1
Italy (FIMI)[201] 4
Japan (Billboard Japan Hot 100)[202] 20
Lebanon (Lebanese Top 20)[203] 1
Luxembourg (Billboard)[204] 1
Mexican Airplay Chart (Billboard)[205] 1
Mexico (Monitor Latino)[206] 1
Netherlands (Single Top 100)[207] 1
New Zealand (RIANZ)[208] 1
Norway (VG-lista)[209] 1
Poland (Top 5 Video Airplay)[210] 1
Portugal Digital Songs (Billboard)[211] 1
Russia (2M)[212] 6
Romania (Romanian Top 100)[213] 60
Scotland (Official Charts Company)[214] 1
Slovakia (IFPI)[215] 9
South Korea (Gaon Digital Singles)[3] 1
South Korea (Billboard K-Pop Hot 100)[25] 1
Spain (PROMUSICAE)[216] 3
Sweden (Sverigetopplistan)[217] 2
Switzerland (Schweizer Hitparade)[218] 1


Once again, starting from an end point and making up things in order to argue a point no one has tried to make. The (albeit desperate) conversation here is about youtube hits. Everyone understands the song itself is doing very well. No one has called Koreans evil. People are talking about Korean netizens, not Korean citizens. But I guess it makes it sound better to make up these things to argue against. How else can we pretend there's this facile dichotomy going on here, with you bravely protecting the population of Korea against the evil foreigners.

And just to cut off the coming storm, let me clarify again that while I think Psy's numbers have been skewed to some extent, I believe every other massively popular video on youtube has as well. People are basically arguing whether Korean netizens or teenaged girls influence these things more, and which group can be trusted more. In the end, the next dance craze will top them all and in 10 years 500 million views will seem like a public access commercial.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
let me clarify again that while I think Psy's numbers have been skewed to some extent, I believe every other massively popular video on youtube has as well.


While I agree with your underlying premise (anything wildly popular is going to have a certain fan group that, while perhaps not deliberately trying to drive up views, is going to play the crap out of something and cause an inflation in its numbers) I must again ask- How can you determine if something has been skewed.

Any rational analysis in an attempt to determine skewing must first include a control model for comparison. What is that model? What is the number? Is it 200 million? 350? 412 million? What is the "right" number the video should have?

Because without the number, the accusations of inflation are baseless. You can't say a tire is overinflated if you don't know what the proper psi should be.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Well it's now number one in the U.K and number 2 in the USA.



You've got a strange idea of the meaning of now. That article was from 30 September not October. Anyway as Blackcat pointed out not a single person on here has claimed Psy's record wasn't a global hit so all your internet trawling for those figures, rolling eyes and attempts at sarcasm have been a waste of time I'm afraid.

@ Steelrails. As I tried to make clear in the post about previous singles. if Adele sold 7 million downloads in the States in 2011 and got 325 million Youtube views you might expect Psy with his 1 million sales in the US to have got about a seventh of Adele's views ie around 45 million. The fact that he got over ten times that amount might suggest the figures were manipulated or not. I neither know nor care really.


Last edited by edwardcatflap on Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Moondoggy



Joined: 07 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Cosmic Hum wrote:
Moondoggy wrote:
Anyways the best "gangnam style" flash mob ever. enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdRm4hhb8wY

Nice to see they put some token white faces in it.


Quote:
Bonus - Yim Jae Bum at UC Berkeley. he's a great singer and i had a chance to talk with him. Super cool guy too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ_TO2ic57k


Yim Jaebum is what many refer to as a Korean Michael Bolton...so not too sure how much support you will get for him on here.
But for what it is worth, I enjoy some of his work.
His song...Sarang Bo Da Kipeun SangChuh was a nice song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt27tPRSTko
...was a little disappointing when he sold out and let them use it in a commercial...now everybody only remembers that song attached to that commercial.
Anyway...we all gotta eat.


I wasn't there when they had this flash mob, but who cares how many whites are in the flash mob. At berkeley (and MIT Caltech) whites are a minority and get preferential treatment. As for yim jae bum I was a member of the staff that made this mini concert possible at Berkeley a year ago. words can't describe how awesome it was. I dont know about michael bolton but must be a great singer. Thanks for the youtube link.

Objectively speaking the MIT one is the best. Oppan (noam) Chomsky style @3:25!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJtHNEDnrnY&feature=channel&list=UL
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
everything-is-everything



Joined: 06 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. BlackCat wrote:


Once again, starting from an end point and making up things in order to argue a point no one has tried to make.



This!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
everything-is-everything



Joined: 06 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edwardcatflap wrote:
The fact that he got over ten times that amount might suggest the figures were manipulated or not.



And this too!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
everything-is-everything



Joined: 06 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:


Any rational analysis in an attempt to determine skewing must first include a control model for comparison.



hmmm....

Quote:
The 2011 TIME 100 Poll Results

1 Rain 492,635 36,983 529,618
2 Jay Chou 274,980 40,683 315,663
3 Susan Boyle 240,759 8,377 249,136
4 Mahinda Rajapaksa 194,483 44,431 238,914
5 Cheng Yen 105,248 7,108 112,356
6 Beyonce 73,604 9,739 83,343
7 Chris Colfer 54,527 9,633 64,160
8 Christopher Hitchens 41,371 3,418 44,789
9 Bradley Manning 38,182 1,760 39,942
10 Glenn Beck 59,500 23,104 82,604



Worst list ever! But here's evidence of Koreans organizing like a swarm. The Taiwanese, British, Atheists and bat-$hit crazy netizens stood no chance against the powerful KNN (Korean Netizen Nation)! Laughing Laughing

And who the hell is Mahinda Rajapaksa?




Quote:
New 7 Wonders of Nature: Current winners

Site Country Image
Amazon Rainforest and River Bolivia, Brazil, Colombia, Ecuador, France (French Guiana), Guyana, Peru, Suriname, Venezuela
Jeju Island South Korea
Halong Bay Vietnam
Iguazu / Iguaçu Falls (National Park) Argentina, Brazil
Puerto Princesa Underground River Philippines
Komodo Island (National Park) Indonesia
Table Mountain (National Park) South Africa



To be fair to the KNN, this entire list is crap. The Amazon definitely deserves it and perhaps Komodo Island cause those dragons are freaking incredible.

But some underground river, a flat mountain and an island with two teddy bear museums! Absolute rubbish!!!




Alright this doesn't relate to your question of a controlled model exactly, but I figured I'd play the Urban Myths game.

Oh year, and you're anti-Semite too! Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mr. BlackCat



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Quote:
let me clarify again that while I think Psy's numbers have been skewed to some extent, I believe every other massively popular video on youtube has as well.


While I agree with your underlying premise (anything wildly popular is going to have a certain fan group that, while perhaps not deliberately trying to drive up views, is going to play the crap out of something and cause an inflation in its numbers) I must again ask- How can you determine if something has been skewed.

Any rational analysis in an attempt to determine skewing must first include a control model for comparison. What is that model? What is the number? Is it 200 million? 350? 412 million? What is the "right" number the video should have?

Because without the number, the accusations of inflation are baseless. You can't say a tire is overinflated if you don't know what the proper psi should be.


Well, I don't have any proof of inflated numbers on Psy's video. It's just a personal opinion (as I stated). I could provide articles and such about campaigns for other artists to get massive views, so for Psy to outdo them all I would suspect he also has some fans doing some manipulations. I don't know to what extent, and I'm obviously not saying it's a Korean-only thing. It's just a common sense thing. It also doesn't mean if you somehow didn't take out those numbers that it still wouldn't be the most watch video on youtube. I don't care about exact numbers for this reason, but to pretend there isn't some manipulation is a bit naive.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edwardcatflap wrote:
Quote:
Well it's now number one in the U.K and number 2 in the USA.



You've got a strange idea of the meaning of now. That article was from 30 September not October. Anyway as Blackcat pointed out not a single person on here has claimed Psy's record wasn't a global hit so all your internet trawling for those figures, rolling eyes and attempts at sarcasm have been a waste of time I'm afraid.

@ Steelrails. As I tried to make clear in the post about previous singles. if Adele sold 7 million downloads in the States in 2011 and got 325 million Youtube views you might expect Psy with his 1 million sales in the US to have got about a seventh of Adele's views ie around 45 million. The fact that he got over ten times that amount might suggest the figures were manipulated or not. I neither know nor care really.


Unfortunately they aren't quite a comparable phenomenon. Psy's youtube video is more notable for the video and the dance as opposed to Adele who is more popular for the music. I'd call Adele's song a traditional "mega-hit". Psy's video is a "viral phenomenon" and has a different appeal, a "viral" following and is more of a "craze". I think you noted this difference which makes it hard to properly quantify.

Quote:
It also doesn't mean if you somehow didn't take out those numbers that it still wouldn't be the most watch video on youtube. I don't care about exact numbers for this reason, but to pretend there isn't some manipulation is a bit naive.


See I'm wondering if there really is. At a certain point you require a significantly greater output to cause changes. Taking a video from 300 million to 400 million views requires a lot more effort than taking something from 2 million to 10 million. Also there would be diminishing returns- what is the essential difference between 410 million and 460 million? At some point wouldn't the netizens realize that they don't have to do anything to pump up the numbers as its a viral phenomenon?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Cosmic Hum



Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
At some point wouldn't the netizens realize that they don't have to do anything to pump up the numbers as its a viral phenomenon?


The netizens want it to be 'the' number one viral video.
That doesn't require thinking or realization.
It only requires mindless devotion to a cause...and undoubtedly they will not stop until they have driven it over a billion views...guaranteed.

Computer generated manipulated viewing (bot style) is also a likely proponent with all mega viewed videos.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fermentation



Joined: 22 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Psy's video is number 2 to Justin Beiber's number 1 video on youtube. That should give you an idea how important this discussion really is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edwardcatflap wrote:
Quote:
Well it's now number one in the U.K and number 2 in the USA.



. Anyway as Blackcat pointed out not a single person on here has claimed Psy's record wasn't a global hit so all your internet trawling for those figures, rolling eyes and attempts at sarcasm have been a waste of time I'm afraid.

.


That wasn't the point I was making. And yes people were saying that it is only big as it is because Korean fans/netizens were driving up and inflating the numbers. I merely proved this was bad logic and reasoning by pointing to the other countries it was a hit in.

If it is due largely to Korean netizens "inflation" it shouldn't be so popular in other countries.

As for being a waste of time...not so. It got Mr Black Cat and your good self to respond..so I'd say it was quite productive. 2 for the price of one.

After all if it were really a waste of time...then why bother even responding?
Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. BlackCat wrote:
[. But I guess it makes it sound better to make up these things to argue against. How else can we pretend there's this facile dichotomy going on here, with you bravely protecting the population of Korea against the evil foreigners.

.



I can see why you think it does sound better to make up stuff. After all here you are doing exactly that.

You will note my comments were directed towards one person making comments to the effect that because people were Korean they couldn't be trusted. In other words it was due solely to their nationality. I was attempting to show that this was a rather xenophobic (to say nothing of bigoted) view.

But if you are keen on defending those type of views have at it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
madoka



Joined: 27 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
Mr. BlackCat wrote:
[. But I guess it makes it sound better to make up these things to argue against.


I can see why you think it does sound better to make up stuff. After all here you are doing exactly that.


That's what I noticed about Mr. BlackCat as well. Not only is he combative for no reason, he makes wild jumps in logic, strange assumptions, and extrapolates to weird conclusions in his arguments. Then he turns around and accuses others of doing those exact same things. He must be quite a joy to work with.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mr. BlackCat



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

madoka wrote:
TheUrbanMyth wrote:
Mr. BlackCat wrote:
[. But I guess it makes it sound better to make up these things to argue against.


I can see why you think it does sound better to make up stuff. After all here you are doing exactly that.


That's what I noticed about Mr. BlackCat as well. Not only is he combative for no reason, he makes wild jumps in logic, strange assumptions, and extrapolates to weird conclusions in his arguments. Then he turns around and accuses others of doing those exact same things. He must be quite a joy to work with.


People were talking about Psy's youtube numbers. UM stepped in with record sales stats, something completely different. He then accused others of saying things they never said. I called him on it. That's it.

I would ask you to please show me where I made things up, but we all know that won't happen. It's like clockwork with you guys. SR will defend something to the death (or 20 pages), although usually reasonably. Then UM will chime in with misrepresentations and irrelevant half truths. Then makoda pipes up with the personal accusations and insults. I may disagree with SR often, but at least he says things of value based in reality and logic.

Yet I'm the combative one for agreeing with both sides, that the numbers are somewhat manipulated but that probably doesn't affect the actual standings. I'm commenting here because I have no classes these days and I'm bored. In a year none of us will even remember who sang that crazy Gangnam song.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Off-Topic Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 18, 19, 20 ... 22, 23, 24  Next
Page 19 of 24

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2013 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International