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The word 'liberal'...
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lithium



Joined: 18 Jun 2008

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today's liberals are not your grandfather's liberals. If you listen to speaches of John F. Kennedy, he often references tax breaks and other conservative, American topics. No, today's liberals are far left, Marxist/Socialist. Obama is a prime example of the Marxist/Socialist type that infiltrated the American government. Hopefully, 3 weeks from today, this experiement with full blown socialism will be defeated.

If you are American and love America as founded, vote Republican.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lithium wrote:
Today's liberals are not your grandfather's liberals. If you listen to speaches of John F. Kennedy, he often references tax breaks and other conservative, American topics. No, today's liberals are far left, Marxist/Socialist. Obama is a prime example of the Marxist/Socialist type that infiltrated the American government. Hopefully, 3 weeks from today, this experiement with full blown socialism will be defeated.


This is awful. You haven't pointed to a single policy or piece of evidence to support your audacious claims. This is pure, unadulterated, "the other team is bad and must be defeated" sentiment.

lithium wrote:
If you are American and love America as founded, vote Republican.


I hope to see the destruction of the two party system in America. Failing that, I wish to see the destruction of the Republican Party as the Libertarian Party rises and replaces it.
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Mr. BlackCat



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lithium wrote:
Today's liberals are not your grandfather's liberals. If you listen to speaches of John F. Kennedy, he often references tax breaks and other conservative, American topics. No, today's liberals are far left, Marxist/Socialist. Obama is a prime example of the Marxist/Socialist type that infiltrated the American government. Hopefully, 3 weeks from today, this experiement with full blown socialism will be defeated.

If you are American and love America as founded, vote Republican.


I would call this a troll because I have a hard time anyone (especially someone who supposedly graduated university) could spout such asinine nonsense. Then I'm reminded that Fox is the most watched cable channel and thousands of mature Americans wear tea bags on their heads in order to keep the government out of their Medicare. I'm not going to rant politically here. I'm not arguing with you. You have no facts, and here they are. You can disagree with what the facts mean, but you can't make up your own facts or redefine words.

The US corporate tax rate is lower now than it was in JFK's time. So is the rate for the richest in the land. It has grown for the average American, you know the workers that Marx hated so much...wait.

The rate is also still lower than almost every other industrialized country in the world. Even if the rate were higher, that would not be a sign of Marxism, but it could mean Socialism. Also, it might help to read a book or two not only to actually understand how silly you sound, but also to stop using two very different terms interchangeably.

The US doesn't have universal health care, which almost every other industrialized country has. It also drags its feet on virtually every socially liberal cause (gay marriage, drugs, civil rights, separation of church and state, etc.) that again every other developed country has dealt with long ago.

If the US is Socialist then that would mean every other industrialized country is...I don't know....super-Socialist? Because there is only a couple of ways the US is any more to the left than any other developed country on Earth (they have a slightly lower tax rate than, say, South Korea).

This whole 'Socialist' thing is just another ploy by certain people to keep the American people occupied while they actually swing politics much more to the right than ever before. Obama's health care plan was virtually identical to Dole's plan in the 90s (and Romney's not too long ago) and suddenly it was co-authored by Marx. Obama proposes to raise taxes on the richest people to Reagan era levels, but now that's a sign he's trying to destroy America. Bush bails out the greedy banks to keep billionaires in business, that's ok. Obama does it with the auto industry to save millions of average jobs and it's a class war.

Of course none of this has anything to do with liberals. Obama isn't a liberal, he's center-right. There are no more liberals in American politics. They're all pro-business, pro-tax cuts, pro-war, anti-rights for anyone but straight white males. Again, this isn't my opinion, it's demonstratable fact. You don't get to label Obama with a bad word just because he does things you don't like. Taking his policies, his stated beliefs, and his actions into consideration, Obama is center-right (he'd fight in with the Canadian Conservative party, for example---although most of them still support universal health care and won't touch gay marriage so maybe he's still too far right for them). I didn't like Bush but I don't get to call him a Fascist because he clearly isn't. And I certainly don't get to call him a conservative fascist libertarian! because I've actually read books and understand words mean things.
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Mr. BlackCat



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twice!

Last edited by Mr. BlackCat on Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mr. BlackCat



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoopsie!

Last edited by Mr. BlackCat on Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NohopeSeriously



Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lithium wrote:
Today's liberals are not your grandfather's liberals. If you listen to speaches of John F. Kennedy, he often references tax breaks and other conservative, American topics. No, today's liberals are far left, Marxist/Socialist. Obama is a prime example of the Marxist/Socialist type that infiltrated the American government. Hopefully, 3 weeks from today, this experiement with full blown socialism will be defeated.

If you are American and love America as founded, vote Republican.


"Real Americans who respect true American values support Paelo-Conservatism. Paleo-Conservatism in the 21st century is no longer represented in both Republicans and Democrats. If you support this form of true American Conservatism, you have to vote for the third parties instead. So vote third parties if you have to."

- How my American friend summarized American politics
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NohopeSeriously wrote:
lithium wrote:
Today's liberals are not your grandfather's liberals. If you listen to speaches of John F. Kennedy, he often references tax breaks and other conservative, American topics. No, today's liberals are far left, Marxist/Socialist. Obama is a prime example of the Marxist/Socialist type that infiltrated the American government. Hopefully, 3 weeks from today, this experiement with full blown socialism will be defeated.

If you are American and love America as founded, vote Republican.


"Real Americans who respect true American values support Paelo-Conservatism. Paleo-Conservatism in the 21st century is no longer represented in both Republicans and Democrats. If you support this form of true American Conservatism, you have to vote for the third parties instead. So vote third parties if you have to."

- How my American friend summarized American politics

This is correct. The notion that voting Republican is "pro-American" is ridiculous. Republicans and Democrats are all members of the same globalist roundtable groups (CFR, Trilateral Commission etc.) and are equally responsible for putting America's neck under the heals of the the same offshore special interests (Wall Street banks) that have no allegiance to the country whatsoever, and have continually sold America out.

I do think Obama is as bad as it gets, and that Romney has much better rhetoric; unfortunately the latter cannot be trusted anymore than Obama can. Just look at his record of being a corporatist sell-out throughout his political career. A shame, really, because his credentials at Bain Capital were actually pretty solid.
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NohopeSeriously



Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
This is correct. The notion that voting Republican is "pro-American" is ridiculous. Republicans and Democrats are all members of the same globalist roundtable groups (CFR, Trilateral Commission etc.) and are equally responsible for putting America's neck under the heals of the the same offshore special interests (Wall Street banks) that have no allegiance to the country whatsoever, and have continually sold America out.


You have explained it very well. I grew up in Korea, Russia (during the late Yeltsin era) and Canada. I am very bitter about democracy and Marxist-Leninist-influenced Socialism.

We are soon going to welcome a post-democratic world and I think this year's US presidential election will signal the decline of democracy all over the world. Every democratic election around the world has been unproductive and inefficient after the Cold War thanks to the sudden expansion of America-led unregulated market capitalism. Thanks a lot, Reagan.

You see why I'm very religious? I can't believe in democracy and Marxism-Leninism (Neo-Conservatism is a Trotskyist branch of MLism) anymore.
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Democracy is merely a tool, which can be useful for decentralizing power, as long as our basic individual rights are kept sacrosanct (the whole point of the US constitution). But in its purest form, democracy is one of the worst and most unjust forms of governance there is. Imagine 51% voting to enslave the other 49%. Some of the apologists out there (who think Obama has a democratic mandate to whatever he wants) probably find such a prospect reasonable...
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Unposter



Joined: 04 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it is worth, many people believe that the only "pure" democracy is the drawing of lots for governmental position as they did in ancient Athens.

And, while I share your condemnation of a majority using its power to "tyranize," the minority, I don't think we really have to worry about that. That is exactly what the U.S. constitution is suppose to safeguard against with its checks and balances with laws requiring both the House and the Senate to agree, with the Senate needing 60% to end debate, with the filibuster, with constitutional amendments needing (what?) a 2/3 majority with a Supreme Court to declare things unconstitutional...

I think the least of our worries is Obama (or Romney) somehow riding roughshot over 49% of the country.

I mean that is pretty ridiculous.

It is always funny to me because my conservative friends always complain about the "dictatorship" of Obama and my liberal freinds always complain about how Obama has compromised too much with the Republicans or that the Republicans have blocked everything that Obama has proposed. It is like they live in two different worlds.

To me, when I look at U.S. politics, I see gridlock for at least the last twenty years, probably much longer. I can't imagine legislation that doesn't get at least one member of the other party to support it; in fact most legislation isn't just voted on by at least one member of the opposing party, it is usually co-sponsored by somebody from the opposing party.

Anyway, I don't think you have to worry about the tyranny of the majority any time soon, except in the sense of the tyranny of the majority who vote over those who do not vote, since it is rare for more than 55% of the country to vote for the President, which really means that it is about 28% of the country who really decides by defacto. Now, that is the closest the U.S. comes to a minority tyranizing the rest of the country.
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unposter wrote:
I think the least of our worries is Obama (or Romney) somehow riding roughshot over 49% of the country.

I mean that is pretty ridiculous.

I assume this is a reply to my post, but it's a strawman either way... I don't think anyone is worried about Obama becoming a literal dictator. That is not the issue.

The issue is that the power of the executive branch is being expanded, and the checks and balances are being eroded. The result is laws have been passed and implemented that take away our liberties. Much of this has to do with the growing underclass of Americans (i.e. the millions of people on food stamps who think the government is there to give them a free lunch) who would love nothing more than to wage war against the "rich" (which ends up being the middle class). They will vote for Obama and happily accept his administration riding roughshod over the constitution, because they think this is going to benefit them. More welfare and entitlements, more "something for nothing". This is what democracy means to them.

Ironically, many in the middle class will also do the same, because they think Obama will use his power to tax the truly rich (i.e. Obama's Wall Street friends whom he gave trillions in bailouts to), but in fact it is the middle class that is being destroyed as a result. They believe all the lies and hope desperately against hope. That is what democracy means to them.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Addendum:

It's looking like the conservative movement has decided to openly take on the idea that rape is god-ordained and women have to deal with the consequences. Congratulations.

Just how long can conservatives hope to contend for national dominance when what they offer is perpetual war and tax cuts that really only benefit the 1% while openly spitting on women, blacks, Latinos, and gays?

Shouldn't the conservative movement in general adopt the name WMP [Wimp?] (White Male Privilege)

Perhaps Retrograde Neanderthal Reactionary would be more fitting and accurate.
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Unposter



Joined: 04 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yata,

I totally see your perspective but something around 50% of the electorate sees something completely different. My high school friends keep saying Mitt Romney is the candidate of peace and prosperity. Romey has flip flopped on the issues and has said whatever people want to hear depending on the venue so much -- I don't know -- people just seem to like him for some unknown reason. Really, I don't get it. I see someone who wants to increase military spending while cutting taxes as someone who wants peace yet wants to attack Iran as someone who supports other republicans but does not agree with their ideas about rape and incest. But, Obama is the liar. I just don't get it - other than that there is no rationality on this planet.
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GF



Joined: 26 Sep 2012

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Retrograde Neanderthal Reactionary


Isn't it time for a little RNR?
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unposter wrote:
But, Obama is the liar. I just don't get it - other than that there is no rationality on this planet.

What don't you get? If you are even slightly rational, than you can easily understand that Obama is a complete and utter liar about everything. His entire essence is a giant flimflam and only the weak minded (i.e. people who love being bamboozled) would look past that to continue supporting him. The point about Romney being a hypocritical flip-flopper is also entirely true, but a separate issue.
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