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George McGovern is dead

 
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:03 am    Post subject: George McGovern is dead Reply with quote

Quote:
Former Senator George McGovern, whose anti-Vietnam War stance in his 1972 presidential race against Richard Nixon led to one of the worst electoral defeats in U.S. history, died on Sunday at the age of 90, his family said.



I'm taken to understand that his nominating convention was something of a turning point for the Democratic party, in terms of how delegates were selected, with more weight given towards youth and members of minority groups, and less on traditional constituencies like organized labor. You hear people like Gary Hart and Jesse Jackson described as "McGovernite reformers" or what have you.

Other than that, the guy was a bit before my time(my political memories start after Watergate). He appeared in a documetary about John Lennon that I saw a few years back.

link
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The NY Times had an interesting obit on him. The general perception of the man was he was a loser (due to the 1972 election debacle), but after reading that article, I have to say I have some admiration for him.
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A war hero, he was never afraid to speak his mind.
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No_hite_pls



Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He was good man.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once upon a time, a long time ago, there was a war that I opposed. It was around finals time in April/May of '68 and LBJ had shocked everyone by saying he wouldn't run for re-election. Instead of staying in the dorm and studying for finals, I jumped in a car with a handful of other guys and we drove over from Greeley, Colorado to Scottsbluff, Nebraska to campaign for McCarthy. A couple of weekends later we drove off to Rapid City, South Dakota.

We spent Saturday knocking on doors and trying to convince voters to support our guy, the morally superior one.

Eating supper I convinced the other guys to go to a gym in Rapid City to watch a Sioux pow wow thing. I'd always thought Indians were cool and Sioux were pretty much at the top of my list of cool Indians. We paraded into the gym and sat on the bleachers and watched the show, feeling increasingly like Custer at the Greasy Grass. Little did we know that Rapid City was the proud claimant to the title of most racist city in the entire country.

At intermission some obscure senator from the flea-bitten state of South Dakota named McGovern made his pitch for the voters to support Robert Kennedy, our nemesis. Arg.

He sent over a staffer to tell us the guy wanted to meet us McCarthy volunteers outside.

Yippee. (Ho hum.)

We went outside and stood around on a corner waiting for this senator. He came up and gave us a line of boiler plate about how inspiring it was to see young people working in the system.

Being 18, I mouthed off and told him what a moral midget I thought he was for supporting RFK instead of McCarthy.

Four years later I was still mad at him and voted 3rd party when he won the nomination. At that stage of my life I was unable to see the reality that you can't always get (exactly) what you want. Live and learn.
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Unposter



Joined: 04 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yata,

Seriously, thanks for the history lesson. There is a big generation gap forming again. Now that you are on the other side of it, what do you think ? No holes barred just like you were 18!
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Once upon a time, a long time ago, there was a war that I opposed. It was around finals time in April/May of '68 and LBJ had shocked everyone by saying he wouldn't run for re-election. Instead of staying in the dorm and studying for finals, I jumped in a car with a handful of other guys and we drove over from Greeley, Colorado to Scottsbluff, Nebraska to campaign for McCarthy. A couple of weekends later we drove off to Rapid City, South Dakota.

We spent Saturday knocking on doors and trying to convince voters to support our guy, the morally superior one.

Eating supper I convinced the other guys to go to a gym in Rapid City to watch a Sioux pow wow thing. I'd always thought Indians were cool and Sioux were pretty much at the top of my list of cool Indians. We paraded into the gym and sat on the bleachers and watched the show, feeling increasingly like Custer at the Greasy Grass. Little did we know that Rapid City was the proud claimant to the title of most racist city in the entire country.

At intermission some obscure senator from the flea-bitten state of South Dakota named McGovern made his pitch for the voters to support Robert Kennedy, our nemesis. Arg.

He sent over a staffer to tell us the guy wanted to meet us McCarthy volunteers outside.

Yippee. (Ho hum.)

We went outside and stood around on a corner waiting for this senator. He came up and gave us a line of boiler plate about how inspiring it was to see young people working in the system.

Being 18, I mouthed off and told him what a moral midget I thought he was for supporting RFK instead of McCarthy.

Four years later I was still mad at him and voted 3rd party when he won the nomination. At that stage of my life I was unable to see the reality that you can't always get (exactly) what you want. Live and learn.


Wow, a genuine veteran of the Children's Crusade, right here on Dave's!

So, were you Clean For Gene, Yata?
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And yata wasn't the only one who was cynical about McGovern in 1972...


Sgt. Shriver's Bleeding Hearts Club Band

Quote:
We don't really want to stop the war
But it's what you'll all be voting for.
You'll forget amidst this stupid sham
We're the ones who got you into Nam


I won't post the Mr. Kite parody. You can see why at the link.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unposter wrote:
Yata,

Seriously, thanks for the history lesson. There is a big generation gap forming again. Now that you are on the other side of it, what do you think ? No holes barred just like you were 18!


There is something else I was reminded of this week. Those tubes that the senator from Alaska referred to that seem to connect people these days reminded me that this week was the 50th anniversary of the Cuban Missile Crisis.

I was 13 that October. My parents didn't talk about it and it certainly wasn't talked about in school. What I remember is a gorgeous October afternoon (a Thursday? a Friday?) and a JV football game, against WACO (Iowa, not Texas Sad ). I was aware enough (but had no understanding at all) of the crisis and that we might not make it to the end of the game before the Soviet missiles came down.

As bad as the crisis is now, the country has faced far worse crises.

The difference is that the people no longer think of the country as one country. Everyone seems to think we are a bunch of individuals who just happen to live inside the boundaries of the border.

We as a country are not broke. The government is broke. Only the government. This is a result of the disease of individualism. At one time the top tax rate was in the 90% range. It did not hurt the country. In fact, the country was as strong as we had ever been. Stronger.

If I were 18 again, I would be in the street ranting and raving about the class warfare against the middle class that began about 1980. The governing philosophy of the last 30 years has been anti-American (and pro-plutocracy).

I feel so sorry for the young people today who go to college looking for a way to get into a secure job that pays a comfortable salary that pays for a decent living standard without selling out their entire future. There is no real reasonable reason for it. I'm reminded of a discussion here a few months ago where some libertarian type ranted about how extending loans to people cheapened his degree. Everything is about 'I've got mine. Screw the rest of you.'

When I was 18 the issue was war. That gave way to tax cuts in my 20s. In the mid-70's I had a teaching job. Reagan proposed his first cut and I opposed it. It only gave me about $20 a month, not enough to take a girlfriend out for dinner and movie, but when you subtracted the entire middle class, it meant that the national debt doubled by the end of his term. Irresponsible.

The majority of my generation was sold on the idea that you can have something for nothing. That's what Reagan was sellingócut taxes and the government's income would grow and we could all have everything. A whole lot for nothing.

It was a scam then, and it is a scam now.

The idea of movement conservatism is to bankrupt the government while ramping up the fear factorófear of the 'other' whether they be blacks at home or browns crossing the Rio Grande or the browns from the deserts of North Africa while selling the idea that the only thing the government should do is build more air craft carriers to protect us from the dark-skinned radicals while they impose their Christian radicalism here at home in alliance with their corporate allies.

It's disgusting.


PS: OTOH: My hair wasn't all that long in '68. It got longer.

I'm not sure I made it clear that my respect for McGovern grew in later years. At the time, I thought he should have supported McCarthy rather than Kennedy because McCarthy was more 'pure'. At the time it was a matter of degree, not principle.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm not sure I made it clear that my respect for McGovern grew in later years


Yeah, I got that. That's why I referred to you as being "cynical about McGovern in 1972".

By the way, did you know that Eugene McCarthy endorsed Reagan for president in 1980?
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No_hite_pls



Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Unposter wrote:
Yata,

Seriously, thanks for the history lesson. There is a big generation gap forming again. Now that you are on the other side of it, what do you think ? No holes barred just like you were 18!


There is something else I was reminded of this week. Those tubes that the senator from Alaska referred to that seem to connect people these days reminded me that this week was the 50th anniversary of the Cuban Missile Crisis.

I was 13 that October. My parents didn't talk about it and it certainly wasn't talked about in school. What I remember is a gorgeous October afternoon (a Thursday? a Friday?) and a JV football game, against WACO (Iowa, not Texas Sad ). I was aware enough (but had no understanding at all) of the crisis and that we might not make it to the end of the game before the Soviet missiles came down.

As bad as the crisis is now, the country has faced far worse crises.

The difference is that the people no longer think of the country as one country. Everyone seems to think we are a bunch of individuals who just happen to live inside the boundaries of the border.

We as a country are not broke. The government is broke. Only the government. This is a result of the disease of individualism. At one time the top tax rate was in the 90% range. It did not hurt the country. In fact, the country was as strong as we had ever been. Stronger.

If I were 18 again, I would be in the street ranting and raving about the class warfare against the middle class that began about 1980. The governing philosophy of the last 30 years has been anti-American (and pro-plutocracy).

I feel so sorry for the young people today who go to college looking for a way to get into a secure job that pays a comfortable salary that pays for a decent living standard without selling out their entire future. There is no real reasonable reason for it. I'm reminded of a discussion here a few months ago where some libertarian type ranted about how extending loans to people cheapened his degree. Everything is about 'I've got mine. Screw the rest of you.'

When I was 18 the issue was war. That gave way to tax cuts in my 20s. In the mid-70's I had a teaching job. Reagan proposed his first cut and I opposed it. It only gave me about $20 a month, not enough to take a girlfriend out for dinner and movie, but when you subtracted the entire middle class, it meant that the national debt doubled by the end of his term. Irresponsible.

The majority of my generation was sold on the idea that you can have something for nothing. That's what Reagan was sellingócut taxes and the government's income would grow and we could all have everything. A whole lot for nothing.

It was a scam then, and it is a scam now.

The idea of movement conservatism is to bankrupt the government while ramping up the fear factorófear of the 'other' whether they be blacks at home or browns crossing the Rio Grande or the browns from the deserts of North Africa while selling the idea that the only thing the government should do is build more air craft carriers to protect us from the dark-skinned radicals while they impose their Christian radicalism here at home in alliance with their corporate allies.

It's disgusting.


PS: OTOH: My hair wasn't all that long in '68. It got longer.

I'm not sure I made it clear that my respect for McGovern grew in later years. At the time, I thought he should have supported McCarthy rather than Kennedy because McCarthy was more 'pure'. At the time it was a matter of degree, not principle.


Nice post Ya-ta boy.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[My mouse committed suicide a couple of days ago. I can't copy and paste.]

No, I didn't know that McCarthy endorsed Reagan. Ever. It must have been senility. There is no other explanation for it. That makes me want to crawl off into a corner and eat arsenic.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw him on Firing Line once, some anniversary show, and Michael Kinsley introduced him by saying that he must have shocked a lot of his supporters when he endrosed Reagan. Mccarthy got up and gave somewhat rambling speech about his reasons. It didn't make a lot of sense, and I thought maybe it was partly tongue in cheek.

But he did indeed endorse Reagan.

Quote:
In 1980, dismayed by what he saw as the abject failure of the Jimmy Carter presidency (later he would say, "he was the worst president we ever had" [20]), he appeared in a campaign ad for Libertarian candidate Ed Clark, and also wrote the introduction to Clark's campaign book.[21] He eventually endorsed Ronald Reagan for the presidency.[22]



Not sure why he couldn't have endorsed John Anderson. Maybe Anderson, as a third-party candidate, was in favor of campaign-finance reform, which McCarthy also opposed. Just a guess.

And I wonder how many votes actually swung Reagan's way as a result of Mccarthy's endorsement?

wikipedia
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I saw him on Firing Line once, some anniversary show, and Michael Kinsley introduced him by saying that he must have shocked a lot of his supporters when he endrosed Reagan. Mccarthy got up and gave somewhat rambling speech about his reasons. It didn't make a lot of sense, and I thought maybe it was partly tongue in cheek.

But he did indeed endorse Reagan.


I have this vague memory of thinking that the poor old guy must have fallen victim to Alzheimers. That's about all I can say.
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