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Titus's open letter to the Queen of England
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh who cares where he was born.

Let's talk about the virtues of monarchy. Kuros gave us an opening.
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
Oh who cares where he was born.

Let's talk about the virtues of monarchy. Kuros gave us an opening.

I can't think of a even a single virtue of monarchy. A benevolent dictatorship that impartially enforces the rule of law could be vastly superior to a democratic system. Unfortunately if the dictatorship is inherited, over time his progeny will inevitably degenerate into a bunch of Habsburg-jawed, sadistic Caligula types...
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which is preferable, I think, to the sociopaths that run the place now.
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everything-is-everything



Joined: 06 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:

Another person who's too lazy to go download it for himself and see that it has been digitally altered (it's right there, as plain as your face, you don't need "experts" to point this out). At best it is inadmissible as evidence (since it's clearly been tampered with, either accidentally or otherwise) and at worst it is a complete forgery (i.e. has been tampered with deliberately).



I actually have seen the document and I have no clue what you are talking about.

So again, what r u seeing exactly that others are not? You've already stated that you aren't an expert in forgery so what gives you the confidence to state that it is a fake?

If it was so clear don't you think there would be hearing or FBI investigations?



Christ, I know you don't like Obama, but you're grasping at really pathetic (and blatantly racist and xenophobic) claims to alter reality.


Finally, stop making Obama out to be some hero of the left or a socialist. Most people from this spectrum would laugh at this suggestion.
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

everything-is-everything wrote:
visitorq wrote:

Another person who's too lazy to go download it for himself and see that it has been digitally altered (it's right there, as plain as your face, you don't need "experts" to point this out). At best it is inadmissible as evidence (since it's clearly been tampered with, either accidentally or otherwise) and at worst it is a complete forgery (i.e. has been tampered with deliberately).



I actually have seen the document and I have no clue what you are talking about.

I know you have no clue. Open it up in Adobe Illustrator and check the "layers" palette. You will see that the text (all in pitch black, indicating it was digitally inserted there) is broken into several layers, all over an artificial background (which can also be toggled on and off since it was digitally inserted there). All of these alterations were made at the source (the file you download directly from the White House website).

Quote:
but you're grasping at really pathetic (and blatantly racist and xenophobic) claims to alter reality.

Well Titus, I suppose one merit of having a monarchy is that force is applied directly and brutally so at least you know what you're getting. There is no need for the sort of subtle mind control that I have highlighted in the above quote.
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

everything-is-everything wrote:
Christ, I know you don't like Obama, but you're grasping at really pathetic (and blatantly racist and xenophobic) claims to alter reality.


On another board I frequent, the best summation of the "Birther" crowd was succinctly put:

Quote:
They're not going to be happy until they see a birth certificate listing Obama's race as "{N-word}".


I'm completely convinced that poster is spot-on.

Anyway, "Birthers" are just more conspiracy theorists. They love to buy into all the bunk "science" that tells them that 9/11 was an inside job, that NASA has proved there's a missing day, that the Moon landings didn't happen, that the Jews secretly rule the world, and any other such nonsense. In short, Reality is not their forte and trying to explain to them that their inanities are not only unlikely but actualy impossible by using science or any other aspect of reality is a waste of time.


Last edited by CentralCali on Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:41 pm; edited 2 times in total
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rollo wrote:
How did he kill them, rifle, knife or I know Kenyan blow gun. Tell me how. Using the bodies of the dead to score poltical points , very low class


Yeah, I'm still waiting to hear an answer to this one.
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got news for visitorg: I was trained as a passport agent when I was in the military. The State Department provides that training and certifies (designates) an individual as a passport agent. One aspect of that training was to determine what is acceptable as proof of US citizenship at birth. The birth certificates--both of them, not just the last one--Obama provided actually do constitute proof as they are not forgeries, obvious or otherwise. But in the opposing corner, we have you: someone not versed in what constitutes acceptable proof.

I think I'll stick with the crowd over here in Reality Corner.
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralCali wrote:
Got news for visitorg: I was trained as a passport agent when I was in the military. The State Department provides that training and certifies (designates) an individual as a passport agent. One aspect of that training was to determine what is acceptable as proof of US citizenship at birth. The birth certificates--both of them, not just the last one--Obama provided actually do constitute proof as they are not forgeries, obvious or otherwise. But in the opposing corner, we have you: someone not versed in what constitutes acceptable proof.

I think I'll stick with the crowd over here in Reality Corner.

You've got nothing, and your so-called "training" is laughable. Seriously, I could run the president's birth certificate through Illustrator, delete the layers with the solid black text of his name that is on there, and digitally write down a different name on top of the fake homogeneous background layer the White House people put in there (as a separate layer no less, that can be toggled on and off). Yet, according to you that would would constitute "acceptable proof" Rolling Eyes

Quote:
On another board I frequent, the best summation of the "Birther" crowd was succinctly put:

Quote:
They're not going to be happy until they see a birth certificate listing Obama's race as "{N-word}".

This is such crap. You have no actual arguments so you always resort to race-baiting. Expand your consciousness and leave the one-track-mind level of idiocy behind...
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorg, you make a good debater on a variety of things and like to read your take on things even if I disagree at times but really, logic and reason dictates that if it was fake it would be revealed. Obama's enemies and he has some very, very powerful ones have every incentive to prove it false.
No one has been able to reasonably explain why this has not been the case? The layer thingy in illustrator you talk about is obviously not compelling enough for Republicans or more importantly the courts.

Anyway, with regards to the monarchy, America would have obviously been a totally different country had we lost the war. We would have probably gotten Lousiana by force as we would have been involved in the war against Napoleon.
Slavery would have ended in America 30 years earlier as the UK ended slavery in all its colonies in 1838.
We would have been involved in both World Wars much earlier because in all likelihood we would have become independent in the mid to late 1800s like Australia, Canada and NZ and their other mainly european populated colonies but would have been a commonwealth nation.
We would probably have had nationalized health care for some time, would not have been in Vietnam or possibly the Korean war possibly. Not many commonwealth nations arbitrarily go to war.
Immigration would have been heavily Indian subcontinent as well as well.
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actionjackson



Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Any place I'm at

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
If all you ever do is believe the "experts" without actually investing anything for yourself first hand then you are shmuck.

I wonder how much longer court proceedings would be if this was a valid argument lawyers could use?
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sirius black wrote:
visitorg, you make a good debater on a variety of things and like to read your take on things even if I disagree at times but really, logic and reason dictates that if it was fake it would be revealed. Obama's enemies and he has some very, very powerful ones have every incentive to prove it false.
No one has been able to reasonably explain why this has not been the case? The layer thingy in illustrator you talk about is obviously not compelling enough for Republicans or more importantly the courts.

The funny thing is that I don't really care where the man was born. If it was in Hawaii or Kenya, I couldn't care less, though I really wouldn't be surprised either way. That is not what is relevant to me. I'm simply pointing out a glaring inconsistency to the whole defense against "birtherism".

The thing is, it is obviously a big enough issue that the White House felt the need to release his long form birth certificate (so anyone on here who is trying to be dismissive is just being self-deluded in that regard). I paid it no heed whatsoever, until I happened (literally at a whim) to read somewhere about it being digitally altered etc. when opened in Adobe, so I gave it a go. I confess I was quite taken aback by what I saw. None of you (so far as I can tell) have taken the time to do this; instead you just dismiss my observation on grounds of credibility.

I get your whole argument about "if it were real, someone would have pointed it out by now", but in my experience this is not how it works. Donald Trump and the rest are just Obama's clown sidekicks in the circus show they put on. Beyond that, it's just a case of the emperor's new clothes. The mainstream media would never touch this sort of thing (same way they continue to cover up damning evidence that utterly discredits the gov'ts official story about 9/11). Yet there actually are many smart, credible people out there who do point this stuff out. They are merely dismissed as being crackpots. You saw it just now with CentralCali. People are just lazy. They have a tendency to bow down to authority and accept the official version of what they are told (often unquestioningly). It's easy and comfortable, and it enables people like CentralCali act all smug and self-righteous to anyone with alternative views. Because that's always more important than figuring out the truth.
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sirius black wrote:
Anyway, with regards to the monarchy, America would have obviously been a totally different country had we lost the war. We would have probably gotten Lousiana by force as we would have been involved in the war against Napoleon.
Slavery would have ended in America 30 years earlier as the UK ended slavery in all its colonies in 1838.
We would have been involved in both World Wars much earlier because in all likelihood we would have become independent in the mid to late 1800s like Australia, Canada and NZ and their other mainly european populated colonies but would have been a commonwealth nation.
We would probably have had nationalized health care for some time, would not have been in Vietnam or possibly the Korean war possibly. Not many commonwealth nations arbitrarily go to war.
Immigration would have been heavily Indian subcontinent as well as well.

We would probably be just another banana republic. More like Mexico. Rather than becoming the world's greatest and freest industrialized nation, we would probably have been carved up into domains to be ruled over by an aristocracy. It's always fun to speculate about what might have been, but I am surely glad we defeated King George and gained independence. If anything, we need to get that sort of attitude back. We need less European-style institutions, not more. This includes the Federal Reserve (which should be abolished).
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everything-is-everything



Joined: 06 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:

You've got nothing, and your so-called "training" is laughable. Seriously, I could run the president's birth certificate through Illustrator, delete the layers with the solid black text of his name that is on there, and digitally write down a different name on top of the fake homogeneous background layer the White House people put in there (as a separate layer no less, that can be toggled on and off). Yet, according to you that would would constitute "acceptable proof" Rolling Eyes





Since you stated we were lazy for not downloading the birth certificate ourselves, why don't you do the non-lazy thing and run the president's birth certificate through Illustrator, delete the layers with the solid black text of his name that is on there, and digitally write down a different name on top of the fake homogeneous background layer the White House people put in there (as a separate layer no less, that can be toggled on and off)?
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titus wrote:
Oh who cares where he was born.

Let's talk about the virtues of monarchy. Kuros gave us an opening.


I did. But sorry, the topic is now birtherism.

Too bad. Monarchy has significant advantages, if its done well.
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