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Racially-based academic goals approved in Florida
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Swampfox10mm



Joined: 24 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:22 pm    Post subject: Racially-based academic goals approved in Florida Reply with quote

Apparently, if you're Black or Hispanic, you're just not as smart as Asians or Whites (according to Florida).


http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2012/10/12/florida-passes-plan-for-racially-based-academic-goals/


Quote:
On Tuesday, the board passed a revised strategic plan that says that by 2018, it wants 90 percent of Asian students, 88 percent of white students, 81 percent of Hispanics and 74 percent of black students to be reading at or above grade level. For math, the goals are 92 percent of Asian kids to be proficient, whites at 86 percent, Hispanics at 80 percent and blacks at 74 percent. It also measures by other groupings, such as poverty and disabilities, reported the Palm Beach Post.
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andrewchon



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: In my goshiwon cubicle. Seeking moksha.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swamp style, as far as I know, you are a republican, so I will congratulate you on getting your man, Rick Scott , in keeping the minorities in their place.

All things aside, I must say I am impressed by the party discipline shown by the repugs in these embarrassing times.
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Swampfox10mm



Joined: 24 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am Independent, but tend to lean Republican due to fiscal issues.

For example, I have no problem with letting the Bush tax cuts expire -- and would not mind raising taxes on the wealthy, as well as capital gains.

Truth is, I am for a flat tax rate and/or a greatly simplified income tax code. Especially for a national tax on purchased goods which increases exponentially with price. For example, food items would have a low tax. Non-essentials something like a 15% tax. Items costing above $1,000 would be taxed at a much higher rate. Luxury items would be taxed even higher.

I am most alarmed by Democrats for their interest in funding unemployment for the lazy, blocking voter IDs, abortion, gun control, attempts to control other things (like that dirtbag Bloomberg trying to control cola sizes and giving free food to the needy) and wasteful spending ... but the Republicans also waste a lot, so it works both ways. For example, I about gagged when Ryan argued we need to build more tanks (and I know he said it just to get votes in the state where they are made).

I am also extremely alarmed by the media and how they kiss Obama's butt, avoiding important stories (Bengazi, gun smuggling to Mexico, etc.) to help him gain politically. I worked in media for 10 years, and let me tell you -- this kind of thing WILL bite the US in the butt.
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T-J



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yonshinnae

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Racially-based academic goals approved in Florida Reply with quote

Swampfox10mm wrote:
Apparently, if you're Black or Hispanic, you're just not as smart as Asians or Whites (according to Florida).


That's not what is being said at all. Or are you just trying to be sensational for the sake of drumming up debate?

From the article:

Quote:

...the board passed a revised strategic plan that says that by 2018, it wants 90 percent of Asian students, 88 percent of white students, 81 percent of Hispanics and 74 percent of black students to be reading at or above grade level.

...the Florida Department of Education said the goals recognize that not every group is starting from the same point and are meant to be ambitious but realistic.

...the percentage of white students scoring at or above grade level (as measured by whether they scored a 3 or higher on the reading FCAT) was 69 percent in 2011-2012, according to the state. For black students, it was 38 percent, and for Hispanics, it was 53 percent.


So the numbers break down to:

White current 69 goal 88 improvement 19 points or 28%
Hispanic current 53 goal 81 improvement 28 points or 53%
Black current 38 goal 74 improvement 36 points or 95%

The thing I noticed in these goals is the current gap and the gap that would be present if goals are met.

Currently Whites are outperforming Hispanics and Blacks by 14 and 31 points respectively, if the goals are met those gaps would be cut at least in half to 7 and 14 respectively.

Not sure I see the problem.
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Swampfox10mm



Joined: 24 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We see things very differently, then.

And a great many more people than myself see it that way.

Of course, you're welcome to paint it any way you want, per your political beliefs.


What if you tested the students at your hagwon and found that darker-skinned Korean students tested lower? Would you attempt to float a similar plan to Korean parents? How do you think they would see it if such a plan were based on skin color? Or how about percentages location of family from within Korea?

What if students at your school who have parents from Jeolla were able to have lower goals because they just don't reach the same percentage level as Seoul kids? Do you suppose that would fly?

Or maybe you don't see a problem with labeling and grouping children in such a way?
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T-J



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yonshinnae

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

What if students at your school who have parents from Jeolla were able to have lower goals because they just don't reach the same percentage level as Seoul kids? Do you suppose that would fly?


Only in this case the goal isn't lower. The amount of improvement is higher. The starting point is a statistical fact. Now if you are arguing that race shouldn't be concise red at all then I assume you are also ready to eliminate affirmative action. Maybe you are and a completely blind approach to race is commendable. I think most if not all of those you count as agreeing with you would differ when we come to this point though.

Again what is the problem with trying through realistic and tough goals to narrow an existing performance gap?
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young_clinton



Joined: 09 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact that Florida is looking to close the gap in educational achievement indicates the Florida education program is not racist as a matter of educational goals. There goal is that eventually all ethnic groups gain equal achievement at school, right?

Black and Hispanic students start off behind other groups when entering K-12 schools and they want to have programs and are planning programs to remedy this and they need real goals and real results with real figures. Nothing racist about that.
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Dodge7



Joined: 21 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

young_clinton wrote:
The fact that Florida is looking to close the gap in educational achievement indicates the Florida education program is not racist as a matter of educational goals. There goal is that eventually all ethnic groups gain equal achievement at school, right?

Black and Hispanic students start off behind other groups when entering K-12 schools and they want to have programs and are planning programs to remedy this and they need real goals and real results with real figures. Nothing racist about that.

Oh really? What about the white kids who grew up right next door to the black kids in the ghetto? There ARE whites in black-dominated ghettos, you know that, right? Guess he's just a throw away. Same experience, different expectations. What's your answer to that?
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young_clinton



Joined: 09 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dodge7 wrote:
young_clinton wrote:
The fact that Florida is looking to close the gap in educational achievement indicates the Florida education program is not racist as a matter of educational goals. There goal is that eventually all ethnic groups gain equal achievement at school, right?

Black and Hispanic students start off behind other groups when entering K-12 schools and they want to have programs and are planning programs to remedy this and they need real goals and real results with real figures. Nothing racist about that.

Oh really? What about the white kids who grew up right next door to the black kids in the ghetto? There ARE whites in black-dominated ghettos, you know that, right? Guess he's just a throw away. Same experience, different expectations. What's your answer to that?


You wouldn't happen to be saying that the white children have better scores just because they are white? Let me put it this way, you wouldn't be saying that you put a white child in a ghetto and they are more likely to come out with better achievements than blacks in the same ghetto just because they are white. Because if you're saying that, what exactly would that mean?
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Dodge7



Joined: 21 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

young_clinton wrote:
Dodge7 wrote:
young_clinton wrote:
The fact that Florida is looking to close the gap in educational achievement indicates the Florida education program is not racist as a matter of educational goals. There goal is that eventually all ethnic groups gain equal achievement at school, right?

Black and Hispanic students start off behind other groups when entering K-12 schools and they want to have programs and are planning programs to remedy this and they need real goals and real results with real figures. Nothing racist about that.

Oh really? What about the white kids who grew up right next door to the black kids in the ghetto? There ARE whites in black-dominated ghettos, you know that, right? Guess he's just a throw away. Same experience, different expectations. What's your answer to that?


You wouldn't happen to be saying that the white children have better scores just because they are white?

What are you talking about? You said that blacks and Hispanics "start off behind other groups" so you must be implying it is because of their cultural background, lack of money/funding or where they live. And what I am saying is that some white kids live in those same areas--but they should have to do better on tests because they're white? How is that fair to whitey? It goes both ways.
I think what you were saying was that blacks and Hispanics are morons and need a curve on their tests.
Whatever, though.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dodge7 wrote:
young_clinton wrote:
Dodge7 wrote:
young_clinton wrote:
The fact that Florida is looking to close the gap in educational achievement indicates the Florida education program is not racist as a matter of educational goals. There goal is that eventually all ethnic groups gain equal achievement at school, right?

Black and Hispanic students start off behind other groups when entering K-12 schools and they want to have programs and are planning programs to remedy this and they need real goals and real results with real figures. Nothing racist about that.

Oh really? What about the white kids who grew up right next door to the black kids in the ghetto? There ARE whites in black-dominated ghettos, you know that, right? Guess he's just a throw away. Same experience, different expectations. What's your answer to that?


You wouldn't happen to be saying that the white children have better scores just because they are white?

What are you talking about? You said that blacks and Hispanics "start off behind other groups" so you must be implying it is because of their cultural background, lack of money/funding or where they live. And what I am saying is that some white kids live in those same areas--but they should have to do better on tests because they're white? How is that fair to whitey? It goes both ways.
I think what you were saying was that blacks and Hispanics are morons and need a curve on their tests.
Whatever, though.


From what I gathered, they're looking at groups broadly. This won't impact students directly. It isn't like a white kid who gets a certain score is going to go on probation, punished, etc while a minority won't for getting the exact same score. These are just broad policy goals of the Florida Dept. of Education.

The article also does not mention any consequence if a school fails to meet this goal.

Honestly, it sounds like a bunch of rhetoric that won't lead to anything.
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KimchiNinja



Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Racially-based academic goals approved in Florida Reply with quote

Swampfox10mm wrote:
Apparently, if you're Black or Hispanic, you're just not as smart as Asians or Whites (according to Florida).


According to nature. The fact is Asians like KRs and HKers have the world's highest avg IQs, whites in the middle, blacks lower, Philippines very low. People can be offended by this all they want, but it exists none the less.

People have evolved differently over millions of years to survive in different environments; racial differences in fact exist. The USA's "bla bla no racial differences exist yadda yadda" is not true.

Go ahead and go crazy now about what I said (yawn).
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KimchiNinja



Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

young_clinton wrote:
Dodge7 wrote:
young_clinton wrote:
The fact that Florida is looking to close the gap in educational achievement indicates the Florida education program is not racist as a matter of educational goals. There goal is that eventually all ethnic groups gain equal achievement at school, right?

Black and Hispanic students start off behind other groups when entering K-12 schools and they want to have programs and are planning programs to remedy this and they need real goals and real results with real figures. Nothing racist about that.

Oh really? What about the white kids who grew up right next door to the black kids in the ghetto? There ARE whites in black-dominated ghettos, you know that, right? Guess he's just a throw away. Same experience, different expectations. What's your answer to that?


You wouldn't happen to be saying that the white children have better scores just because they are white? Let me put it this way, you wouldn't be saying that you put a white child in a ghetto and they are more likely to come out with better achievements than blacks in the same ghetto just because they are white. Because if you're saying that, what exactly would that mean?


It would mean higher IQ.
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kabrams



Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Racially-based academic goals approved in Florida Reply with quote

KimchiNinja wrote:
Swampfox10mm wrote:
Apparently, if you're Black or Hispanic, you're just not as smart as Asians or Whites (according to Florida).


According to nature. The fact is Asians like KRs and HKers have the world's highest avg IQs, whites in the middle, blacks lower, Philippines very low. People can be offended by this all they want, but it exists none the less.

People have evolved differently over millions of years to survive in different environments; racial differences in fact exist. The USA's "bla bla no racial differences exist yadda yadda" is not true.

Go ahead and go crazy now about what I said (yawn).


This is pretty dumb. But I'm sure you already knew that.
Wink
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swampfox10mm wrote:
I am Independent, but tend to lean Republican due to fiscal issues.

For example, I have no problem with letting the Bush tax cuts expire -- and would not mind raising taxes on the wealthy, as well as capital gains.

Truth is, I am for a flat tax rate and/or a greatly simplified income tax code. Especially for a national tax on purchased goods which increases exponentially with price. For example, food items would have a low tax. Non-essentials something like a 15% tax. Items costing above $1,000 would be taxed at a much higher rate. Luxury items would be taxed even higher.

I am most alarmed by Democrats for their interest in funding unemployment for the lazy, blocking voter IDs, abortion, gun control, attempts to control other things (like that dirtbag Bloomberg trying to control cola sizes and giving free food to the needy) and wasteful spending ... but the Republicans also waste a lot, so it works both ways. For example, I about gagged when Ryan argued we need to build more tanks (and I know he said it just to get votes in the state where they are made).

I am also extremely alarmed by the media and how they kiss Obama's butt, avoiding important stories (Bengazi, gun smuggling to Mexico, etc.) to help him gain politically. I worked in media for 10 years, and let me tell you -- this kind of thing WILL bite the US in the butt.


In other words, you're a Republican who's too ashamed to admit it.
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