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Your take on the current secession thingie?
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

comm wrote:
sirius black wrote:
They don't have a valid reason why they should secede.
...
Wall Street, Gitmo, continuing the erosion of civil liberties. Establishment cabinet for the most part.
No valid reason? Seems you've started a pretty good list.


haha...that list gives liberal states more of a reason than the states on the list. A Republican would be and have done that list and they didnt want to secede then.
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comm



Joined: 22 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sirius black wrote:
comm wrote:
sirius black wrote:
They don't have a valid reason why they should secede.
...
Wall Street, Gitmo, continuing the erosion of civil liberties. Establishment cabinet for the most part.
No valid reason? Seems you've started a pretty good list.

haha...that list gives liberal states more of a reason than the states on the list. A Republican would be and have done that list and they didnt want to secede then.

What makes you think it's Republicans are signing them? I don't think I've seen a single Republican party member come out in favor of them.

As desperately as the Democrats and Republicans want you to think that EVERYONE adheres to one doctrine or the other, lots of us aren't voting for the NDAA, Patriot Act, American citizen "kill lists" and Wall Street bailouts/pardons that both parties are in favor of.
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recessiontime



Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8kXBXU75Q4
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young_clinton



Joined: 09 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've finally come up with my opinion of the successionists. They are mostly just poor losers. Notice how it's occuring mostly in the southern states and Texas. Don't the election rules apply to everyone?
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

young_clinton wrote:
I've finally come up with my opinion of the successionists. They are mostly just poor losers. Notice how it's occuring mostly in the southern states and Texas. Don't the election rules apply to everyone?

Your opinion counts for very little. Nothing could be more American than secession. There could be only benefits for a state like Texas (the Lone Star state, for a reason) seceding. I cannot think of a single benefit for Texas staying in the union at this point.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
young_clinton wrote:
I've finally come up with my opinion of the successionists. They are mostly just poor losers. Notice how it's occuring mostly in the southern states and Texas. Don't the election rules apply to everyone?

Your opinion counts for very little. Nothing could be more American than secession. There could be only benefits for a state like Texas (the Lone Star state, for a reason) seceding. I cannot think of a single benefit for Texas staying in the union at this point.


Deterrence against the narco-junta to the south. If Texas were simply an independent state without the full backing of the US government and its domestic paramilitary organizations odds are the cartels and the Mexican narco-state would be more likely to have violence carry over.

Of course if there were common sense narcotics policies in place the whole cartel problem might be diminished...but odds are if Texas is seceding, our federal government is as inept as ever and Texas would be caught in between, suffering all the damage, gaining no benefit, and having less backing. In that case while you may not like the DEA and co., you dare not let go of them lest Texas lose all deterrence.
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
visitorq wrote:
young_clinton wrote:
I've finally come up with my opinion of the successionists. They are mostly just poor losers. Notice how it's occuring mostly in the southern states and Texas. Don't the election rules apply to everyone?

Your opinion counts for very little. Nothing could be more American than secession. There could be only benefits for a state like Texas (the Lone Star state, for a reason) seceding. I cannot think of a single benefit for Texas staying in the union at this point.


Deterrence against the narco-junta to the south. If Texas were simply an independent state without the full backing of the US government and its domestic paramilitary organizations odds are the cartels and the Mexican narco-state would be more likely to have violence carry over.

Of course if there were common sense narcotics policies in place the whole cartel problem might be diminished...but odds are if Texas is seceding, our federal government is as inept as ever and Texas would be caught in between, suffering all the damage, gaining no benefit, and having less backing. In that case while you may not like the DEA and co., you dare not let go of them lest Texas lose all deterrence.

May be the case, but I frankly don't see a whole lot of evidence of this deterrence you speak of. The violence spills over the border regardless, and the feds do nothing. In fact, it could be argued that an independent Texas could devote the resources it currently wastes giving the federal government on bolstering its own defense.

Another option could be Texas actually paying money to the US for defense. The US military obviously has excess capacity in that regard, and if Texas felt a need they could pay for it. Just an idea anyway...
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Leon



Joined: 31 May 2010

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
young_clinton wrote:
I've finally come up with my opinion of the successionists. They are mostly just poor losers. Notice how it's occuring mostly in the southern states and Texas. Don't the election rules apply to everyone?

Your opinion counts for very little. Nothing could be more American than secession. There could be only benefits for a state like Texas (the Lone Star state, for a reason) seceding. I cannot think of a single benefit for Texas staying in the union at this point.


They lose the bill of rights, in a state like Texas with its make up of social conservatives and evangelicals it seems highly unlikely that the individuals would be as free, but as for business who knows. Libertarians seem less interested in individual freedoms as they are in economic freedoms, so go figure.
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leon wrote:
visitorq wrote:
young_clinton wrote:
I've finally come up with my opinion of the successionists. They are mostly just poor losers. Notice how it's occuring mostly in the southern states and Texas. Don't the election rules apply to everyone?

Your opinion counts for very little. Nothing could be more American than secession. There could be only benefits for a state like Texas (the Lone Star state, for a reason) seceding. I cannot think of a single benefit for Texas staying in the union at this point.


They lose the bill of rights, in a state like Texas with its make up of social conservatives and evangelicals it seems highly unlikely that the individuals would be as free, but as for business who knows. Libertarians seem less interested in individual freedoms as they are in economic freedoms, so go figure.

And I think you're just making this stuff up. Many of your generalizations about libertarians come off as totally absurd to me.
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Leon



Joined: 31 May 2010

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
Leon wrote:
visitorq wrote:
young_clinton wrote:
I've finally come up with my opinion of the successionists. They are mostly just poor losers. Notice how it's occuring mostly in the southern states and Texas. Don't the election rules apply to everyone?

Your opinion counts for very little. Nothing could be more American than secession. There could be only benefits for a state like Texas (the Lone Star state, for a reason) seceding. I cannot think of a single benefit for Texas staying in the union at this point.


They lose the bill of rights, in a state like Texas with its make up of social conservatives and evangelicals it seems highly unlikely that the individuals would be as free, but as for business who knows. Libertarians seem less interested in individual freedoms as they are in economic freedoms, so go figure.

And I think you're just making this stuff up. Many of your generalizations about libertarians come off as totally absurd to me.


Do you think if Texas was independent it would be libertarian? I mean this is the same state that was breaking into people's private houses to enforce an anti sodomy law up until recently. Evangelicals have an enormous amount of power in Texas, so Texas only becomes more free or better off if all you care about is economic liberalization.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to the latest PPP poll, 25% of the GOP want to secede and another 19% are 'not sure'. That's 44% who think it might be a good idea. It's not a majority, but hey...

Obviously, a bunch of them are just registering their discontent that they lost the last election. But there is historical context here. Back in '04 some Dems said they would 'self deport' to Canada. That is one thing. Now we have (thank you Gov. Perry of Texas) almost half of the opposition party saying they are willing to break the country apart.

In 1814 the Federalists did much the same thing at their Hartford Convention. That did not end well for them.

I think the question is: What happens to a party/movement that takes the position 'we get our way or we wreck the country'?

Are conservatives just traitors?
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young_clinton



Joined: 09 Sep 2009

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A handful of wackos, mostly in the wierd south, angry over the fact that a ****** was re-elected.
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actionjackson



Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Any place I'm at

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A southerners views on the people talking about secession. I thought he made some good points in relation to the state he lives in. The language is strong so you might want to watch the volume depending on where you're at.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YdkxUK-UJA&list=UUtlfyd1Xs9CtxfBNP9_IgAw&index=3
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
Steelrails wrote:
visitorq wrote:
young_clinton wrote:
I've finally come up with my opinion of the successionists. They are mostly just poor losers. Notice how it's occuring mostly in the southern states and Texas. Don't the election rules apply to everyone?

Your opinion counts for very little. Nothing could be more American than secession. There could be only benefits for a state like Texas (the Lone Star state, for a reason) seceding. I cannot think of a single benefit for Texas staying in the union at this point.


Deterrence against the narco-junta to the south. If Texas were simply an independent state without the full backing of the US government and its domestic paramilitary organizations odds are the cartels and the Mexican narco-state would be more likely to have violence carry over.

Of course if there were common sense narcotics policies in place the whole cartel problem might be diminished...but odds are if Texas is seceding, our federal government is as inept as ever and Texas would be caught in between, suffering all the damage, gaining no benefit, and having less backing. In that case while you may not like the DEA and co., you dare not let go of them lest Texas lose all deterrence.

May be the case, but I frankly don't see a whole lot of evidence of this deterrence you speak of. The violence spills over the border regardless, and the feds do nothing. In fact, it could be argued that an independent Texas could devote the resources it currently wastes giving the federal government on bolstering its own defense.

Another option could be Texas actually paying money to the US for defense. The US military obviously has excess capacity in that regard, and if Texas felt a need they could pay for it. Just an idea anyway...


While I think Texas could do well enough on its own, and that as you said, violence still spills over, I think the strong-arm of U.S. Federal Agencies and the military is a deterrence to the worst of cartel violence. In other words they can murder, but don't do anything like bring over heavy weapons or start shooting "normal" people in large amounts or influencing elections.

As for military-level subcontracting, that's a possibility. Although I'd hate for an independent Texas to become exceedingly dependent on the US.
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

actionjackson wrote:
A southerners views on the people talking about secession. I thought he made some good points in relation to the state he lives in. The language is strong so you might want to watch the volume depending on where you're at.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YdkxUK-UJA&list=UUtlfyd1Xs9CtxfBNP9_IgAw&index=3


As I said before, Texan Whites will ultimately lose control of the state anyway. 12% of the population is Black and almost 40% is Latino. Both those populations have a higher birthrate.
Controlling the border is another problem as well.

They obviously haven't thought it through. Its more a knee jerk reaction than any thoughtful composed decision.
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