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Things back home that would annoy Koreans/foreigners
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edwardcatflap wrote:
Quote:
But I really object to the caricatures of "No Kimchi Pizza, No Soju everywhere, I hate blacks", and many of the others.


Don't know about the racist stuff but the food observation is spot on. Ask any Korean what they would miss most if they had to live in another country and I can 100% guarantee that, after family and friends, the most common answer will be Korean food.


Yeah, but they aren't annoyed by it. They don't expect people in America to carry kimchi and expect to find it in restaurants. They knew the deal before they moved over. Same with soju.

And again, Koreans that live overseas are overwhelmingly Christian and are pressured into conforming to the teetotaling, respectable lifestyle. Now that don't mean they don't drink or club, but they aren't pouring into the streets with soju and Hite. They're drinking Bubble Tea and playing Cataan. Now Korean Americans...Anything goes there. Blunts, 40s, and more

I would say its a challenging part of living overseas for them though.

Quote:
Korean people racist against black people? Oh no....never right? Are you serious with that? It's not all Koreans, right, but I've talked to plenty that felt threatened by all the black people they saw in the USA when they were there. In my opinion that is the result of the way our media has chosen to represent black people in movies and music (as well as our consumers eating it up) but it is still not a stretch. Tell a black person or southeast asian that lives in Korea that there is no racism against them.


Oh I agree that some Koreans are racist towards blacks, both here and back home. But far less are, and while some may be scared of black people who dress and carry themselves a certain way, most are fine with black people who are in a university/professional/religious setting.

Quote:
Whether you agree with the other posters or not, most of them have experience with Korea and Korean people. There is no reason their observations would be any more or less accurate than yours.


Sorry, but many of those "opinions" do not seem to stem from actual conversations and sustained interaction. Rather they seem like contrived lists, spawned from the posters own preconceptions about Koreans and the projected as their opinion.

Also the reason some people get "kimchi" replies is that Koreans tend to not favor arguments and don't want to hurt one's feelings (although they often blunder at this). Saying "I couldn't find kimchi" is far more of a "light and safe" answer than something that is likely to produce an argument, and Koreans are pretty good at picking up whether you're an arguer or a listener. If you're a listener and empathizer, they might open up more with what they truly think, but if they say something like "I don't like the amount of crime and violence" and it turns into a 30 minute lecture on the history of guns in America plus a 30 minute arguing session about how things are just as bad in Korea, surprise, surprise, that's not very appealing to them. Better to say "No Kimchi"
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yeah, but they aren't annoyed by it. They don't expect people in America to carry kimchi and expect to find it in restaurants. They knew the deal before they moved over. Same with soju.


Yeah Ok fair enough but it all depends on your definition of 'annoyed' doesn't it. The way people rant on here about Koreans putting corn on pizzas and sugar in garlic bread etc...suggest they're pretty 'annoyed' about food issues, so there's no reason to think Koreans would be any different. I'm sure Koreans get annoyed in a Korean restaurant in London for example when they find (if they didn't know before) they have to pay separately for every side dish
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Mr. BlackCat



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
SenorNegroGato, let me first say that I in no way, shape or form endorse the validity of their complaints, only that that's what I've heard and experienced.

First things first, I was 100% buzzed.

I'll respond to the ones and go further in depth...

Quote:
And Korean culture isn't passive aggressive? Maybe in different ways, not so public?


I agree. They just find the bumper sticker thing bizarre, especially the aggressiveness of the political bumper stickers. Other bumper stickers are just funny though.

Quote:
I see dozens of ajoshis everyday that would like to disagree, if they can pull themselves away from spitting at my feet, budding in line and giving me the death stare.


I agree. But they find the culture of being "dissed" and the combativeness and touchiness about personal space a little odd and overly-hostile. When I mentioned that the last time I ever cried was in like the 1st grade they were shocked and found it unhealthy. I thought they were a bunch of sissies.

Quote:
This goes to perception, I think. Just because we move out when we're adults and can relocate overseas doesn't mean we hate our families. In fact, I hear Koreans complain about their parents and families more than my foreign friends. This might also be because foreigners can easily talk about the faults of our loved ones and ourselves without losing 'face'. But if anyone else tried to say the same things about my mom I'd punch them to the moon.


That's true too. But they hear a lot of "Yo Momma jokes" and collegians especially who speak really hatefully and disrespectfully towards their parents as well as people who rarely call home and such.

Now I've heard plenty of Koreans who call their parents everyday and then moan about them.

Quote:
You're joking, right? In a society that gives passing marks to students who don't speak a word during English speaking tests and University students get at least a B for showing up? There are definitely problems with the North American education system, but thinking Korea has us beat on this point is laughable. Koreans try to send their kids to international schools here. No one back home is lining up to send their kids to Korean schools. How many Koreans go to foreign universities? Now, how many foreigners move to Korea to study?


In this case they are referring to kids who fail school in America and then complain about working at McDonald's and being broke. They are amazed that they never attempt to place the blame on their lack of education and the general attitude of anti-intellectualism in the country (FYI this is America I'm talking about, everybody rags on America for its anti-intellectualism).

They don't have any complaints about the university system (aside from minor bureaucratic gripes and not being to earn as much money working while on a student visa), so they support the top end of American education, but they don't appreciate what is happening at the bottom end.

Quote:
Wait, is this performance art?


Yeah, they experience racism too. Shocker!

And remember the ones that move over to America are disproportionately more likely to be tolerant and open-minded about race as opposed to screaming nationalists, they are also more likely to be well-educated, wealthier, and many of them have lived in other countries as well.

Quote:
Is this really only a Korean complaint?


No, but they complain, and I don't always agree that this is valid, that in group projects people tend to dump everything on the international, especially Asian, students because they know they will do the work regardless of whether everyone else participates. It's sort of a Group-Work Prisoner's Dilemma.

Now, I would offer suggestions like "Don't take that crap" or "Just tell your professor" but many didn't want to do it and were stunned that someone would actually think like that in a University environment.

Quote:
I don't doubt that it's strange to Koreans, but I'd rather live 35 years with cheese and bacon on everything than live 100 years without it.


I love my cheese, but ask vegans and vegetarians how ridiculously over-cheesed and meated American food is these days.

Like sweet corn and honey mustard, it can get to be a bit much.

Quote:
You mean not treating staff like serfs?


The constant attempts to get discounts and to complain to the manager. The heckling with 50 different requests, some of which are impossible to perform and the inability of the customer to accept that "While we can try to give you what you want, we can only give you what we have to offer".

They can accept 'Korean' complaints (Faster! Bring me more water!) They don't like how someone tries to customize something to the nth degree and then complains when told that it can't be done (sounds pretty lordly to me).

Quote:
Honestly, I mean it, honestly have you ever been inside a school here?


Like I said, I'm not saying they're right, just that that's what they feel. As I said, they tend to be disproportionately wealthy so they probably got o better schools. Also they all went to elementary school back in the 80s-90s, not now and they often say things like "We were bad, but never THAT bad" when they hear about a horror story in Korean schools.

And yes, in American public schools and Community Colleges, there are teachers who run their classes that year thanks to being burnt out. And coming out to the student parking lot only to find that someone has broken into your car and stolen your stereo and seeing constant drug use can have a chilling effect on one's enthusiasm towards their new country.

Quote:
Yeah, having opinions and ideas about how to better do things SUCKS. Look at the examples: Microsoft, Apple, Ford, NASA, Facebook, modern science, Nobel Prize winner after Nobel Prize winner. Yeah, much better for everyone to agree with the oldest male than to have new and innovative ideas, especially if they conflict with how things are usually done!


Koreans will argue, debate, and use democratic ballots. I've been in various Korean organizations and all those methods work, and guess what, the oldest male is not always seen as number 1.

What they object to is when the arguing gets taken to a point that things break down and no progress is made and no decision is reached. They are used to things moving forward at some point, not the wheel spinning over procedure that they sometimes experience.

Ironically, some express admiration for how direct and straight-forward things can be in America.

Quote:
but many things are worded to suggest one is better than the other when in fact it can go both ways.


And when people make lists about Koreans that doesn't happen? Sounds like you're an American apologist. Wink

Yeah, I'll agree that some of their complaints are eye-rollers. It really goes to show how similar things are between here and home, the complaints may be in a different key, but its still the same tune.

But I really object to the caricatures of "No Kimchi Pizza, No Soju everywhere, I hate blacks", and many of the others.

A lot of people's posts are by people who clearly have zero experience actually dealing with Koreans in their home country and are just basing things on their stereotypes here.

It does not bode well for inter-cultural relations when one assumes what one's attitudes are towards a country, especially in the manner some people have done here, without actually talking and dealing with the people in question.


Thanks for taking the time to elaborate on your points. I understand them better now. It's quite interesting, actually. I think you'd have a better idea about this, as I said I was being a bit cheeky with mine. And you're right about my last point, which was actually pointless. Again, as I said I was 'liquidated' at the time.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Also the reason some people get "kimchi" replies is that Koreans tend to not favor arguments and don't want to hurt one's feelings (although they often blunder at this). Saying "I couldn't find kimchi" is far more of a "light and safe" answer than something that is likely to produce an argument, and Koreans are pretty good at picking up whether you're an arguer or a listener. If you're a listener and empathizer, they might open up more with what they truly think, but if they say something like "I don't like the amount of crime and violence" and it turns into a 30 minute lecture on the history of guns in America plus a 30 minute arguing session about how things are just as bad in Korea, surprise, surprise, that's not very appealing to them. Better to say "No Kimchi"


Steel this was very well said! Well done man.

Some of the things said here are out there Steel but some people have posted valid points I think.

For example, we hang out with a Korean Community group pretty regularly after our kids are done with Korean school on Saturday mornings and none of them "carry kimchi" with them when they travel about. They actually love trying out new foods and restaurants. They do, like us, have their comfort foods and kimchi can be one of those.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edwardcatflap wrote:
Quote:
Yeah, but they aren't annoyed by it. They don't expect people in America to carry kimchi and expect to find it in restaurants. They knew the deal before they moved over. Same with soju.


Yeah Ok fair enough but it all depends on your definition of 'annoyed' doesn't it. The way people rant on here about Koreans putting corn on pizzas and sugar in garlic bread etc...suggest they're pretty 'annoyed' about food issues, so there's no reason to think Koreans would be any different. I'm sure Koreans get annoyed in a Korean restaurant in London for example when they find (if they didn't know before) they have to pay separately for every side dish


Fair point, as my wife was surprised the first time we ate in a K-restaurant in Canada. Basic side-dishes were not charged but there were quite a few of them compared to what you get in a typical restaurant in Busan. Still, after that one time, the figured that was how it is done here...
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
Quote:
Also the reason some people get "kimchi" replies is that Koreans tend to not favor arguments and don't want to hurt one's feelings (although they often blunder at this). Saying "I couldn't find kimchi" is far more of a "light and safe" answer than something that is likely to produce an argument, and Koreans are pretty good at picking up whether you're an arguer or a listener. If you're a listener and empathizer, they might open up more with what they truly think, but if they say something like "I don't like the amount of crime and violence" and it turns into a 30 minute lecture on the history of guns in America plus a 30 minute arguing session about how things are just as bad in Korea, surprise, surprise, that's not very appealing to them. Better to say "No Kimchi"


Steel this was very well said! Well done man.

Some of the things said here are out there Steel but some people have posted valid points I think.

For example, we hang out with a Korean Community group pretty regularly after our kids are done with Korean school on Saturday mornings and none of them "carry kimchi" with them when they travel about. They actually love trying out new foods and restaurants. They do, like us, have their comfort foods and kimchi can be one of those.


I didn't say they "carry kimchi", I said I have seen them pack it up with them. I have also gone hunting for good Korean restaurants because I have had Korean friends in the USA that had cravings for something that was as close to home as they could find. I think annoyed is actually a good word to describe it. I'm annoyed when I want some starburst and I can't find them anywhere. Maybe you and Steelrails have just met different types of people than other posters on this board. You two seem to have difficulty understanding that, but it happens.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard a fair amount of "why does it take so long to...?"

Setting up the phone and internet. Getting something delivered. Setting up an account...

These things took longer than my wife expected (compared to Korea).
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Privateer



Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

newb wrote:
^^ I think Korea has more beautiful country sides than the UK. Not to mention better weather.


Also - what countryside? Not a lot of it, is there.
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T-J



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yonshinnae

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
I heard a fair amount of "why does it take so long to...?"

Setting up the phone and internet. Getting something delivered. Setting up an account...

These things took longer than my wife expected (compared to Korea).



Did you make the move?
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ilikekimchi



Joined: 11 Sep 2012

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alongway wrote:
Quote:
-Control your kid in public!

Are you somehow claiming that north Americans control their kids in public? Have you been there since the 50s?


Maybe it was unique to peeing in a bottle in public. On a macrolevel, North Americans don't control their kids-too many fat kids to lay claim to that.
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actionjackson



Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Location: Any place I'm at

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After spending a couple of months in the U.S., the only thing my girlfriend could say that really bothered her was the tipping.
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nautilus



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

American guys get all insecure and jealous when korean men are around.

They drag their girlfriends into their cars by their hair if they even talk with asian guys.


yes....america is a hostile place for foreigners.
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Koharski
Mod Team
Mod Team


Joined: 20 Jul 2009

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back on topic, please.

Koharski
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Moondoggy



Joined: 07 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
Have also include (as cited by others here) stuff like:

Tipping at restaurants
How run down people look (how they dress)
The fat issue.
Dirty subways


They really hate tipping.
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transmogrifier



Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Location: Seoul, South Korea

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate tipping.
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