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Things back home that would annoy Koreans/foreigners
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moondoggy wrote:
PatrickGHBusan wrote:
Have also include (as cited by others here) stuff like:

Tipping at restaurants
How run down people look (how they dress)
The fat issue.
Dirty subways


They really hate tipping.


You bet! My wife got used to it, still does not like it. I have grown to dislike it in some cases too...cue Reservoir Dogs scene on tipping.
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Newbie



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
The responses on this board are pathetic and demonstrate a serious inability to empathize and conceptualize what other human beings would feel. It is based on stereotype and bigotry, two things people here are allegedly offended by, of course only when it happens to them.

As someone who had Korean friends back home, and instead of opining to them constantly and trying to be the center of attention, actually tried to listen, I can give actual reasons, not fantasies based on prejudice.

That being said, most of the things happen as well in Korea. It's just the way it happens, at least in America, was different.

Guns and crime.
The culture of violence.
The passive-aggressive political culture of bumper stickers.
The "culture wars", not that people argue over culture, but the form it takes.
The uber-machismo.
The lack of caring towards family and willingness to insult one's parents.
The lack of energy devoted to education and the willingness of individuals who fail at education to blame the system.
The racism.
The claims of being tolerant, yet being subtley racist.
How difficult it is to do group projects and the tendency to do a lot of the work and get little of the credit.
Cheese and meat on EVERYTHING. The general unhealthiness of food- massive portions, deep fried, cheesed and creamed.
Customer behavior in restaurants and shops
Teachers who don't teach and don't discipline and just show movies.
The difficulty in reaching consensus on things

And a whole host of other things.

But its not Kimchi, Different Colored People, Booze (Lots of Koreans in America are teetotalers because they are hardcore church attendees), and banchan.

No, you aren't as insightful as you think you are.


Strange. Why would you think that Koreans wouldn't miss Kimchi? That is perhaps the most obvious. It's like Canadians missing Tim Horton's, Europeans missing good beer, and Americans missing... I don't know: apple pie?

Also, I'm not conceptualizing what other people would feel, or telling fantasies based on prejudices: I'm relating things that have been told to me by Koreans. Many visitors, and many who have lived here for 5, 10, 15, 20 years. Now, perhaps I could have been clearer and mentioned that the items on my list were not brought up by ALL Koreans I know, and not all items were "troubling", some were just "hmmm. weird" or "interesting"

But, you did seem to take acception with the fact that I know Korean people who are put off my all the brown and black people in Toronto. Again, this is what they've told me, not what I'm assuming. Perhaps I should have clarfied that it's not all the Koreans I know who have this problem, just seems to be prevalent amongst the females. (will never forget how irrate my MIL and two of her sisters were to see a beautiful Korean woman with a black boyfriend. They just couldn't let it go)

The whole, "those non-white people aren't Canadian" is something that mostly the men seem to think.

This is where the comes from: My wife and I, for our first few years in Canada, served as somewhat of a landing point for Koreans coming here to learn English. Friends, and family back home would send people to study, we'd pick them up at the airport, and keep them at our place for about a month until they settled in and found there own place. I live in a very non-white part of Toronto (Scarborough, for those of you who know the city) and hosting all these students always involved a ride on public trasnit. Without any exaggeration, if i get on a bus with about 30-40 people, there are rarely more than 3 white people. WITHOUT FAIL, every Korean student who has gotten on this bus with me has said something along the lines of "Why are there no Canadians / Why is everyone Asian / Aren't you angry there are no Canadians." And almost all of them can't seem to buy it when I tell them that most of those people could very well be just as Canadian as me.

I'm not judging them, it's just a different attitude and way of thinking when it comes to nationalism. For 99.9% of Korean (IMO), you have to be Korean in blood to be a Korean. In places like Canada and the US, this just isn't the case (obvisouly... to us). But it's a different way of thinking for them. I don't think I'm any better than them for my point of view.
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comm



Joined: 22 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Newbie wrote:
I'm not judging them, it's just a different attitude and way of thinking when it comes to nationalism. For 99.9% of Korean (IMO), you have to be Korean in blood to be a Korean. In places like Canada and the US, this just isn't the case (obvisouly... to us). But it's a different way of thinking for them. I don't think I'm any better than them for my point of view.

You should see my students freak out when I tell them that; if they marry another Korean but then have a baby in the United States, it will be American (optionally). I think it brings up the very good question of why nationalism should be more acceptable than racism/xenophobia. Why should loyalty/pride in one's place of birth be any more appropriate than loyalty/pride in one's race?

And FYI, as an American I miss the widespread availability of food from many cultures. Specifically, I'd pretty much just hand over my wallet for a meal at a Fogo De Chao.
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Singularity



Joined: 28 Oct 2012

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Newbie wrote:
(will never forget how irrate my MIL and two of her sisters were to see a beautiful Korean woman with a black boyfriend. They just couldn't let it go)



Sounds like their anger was based on repressed sexual desires.
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Dave Chance



Joined: 30 May 2011

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Singularity wrote:
Newbie wrote:
(will never forget how irrate my MIL and two of her sisters were to see a beautiful Korean woman with a black boyfriend. They just couldn't let it go)



Sounds like their anger was based on repressed sexual desires.


If you really get to know Korean women who are biased against people of color (and often also a lot of other things that go against "the norm/proper spec qualifications"), you will realize it's not repressed desire to get with a black guy.

They have been groomed to support and admire a certain type of foreigner by their church, the mass media, and even the content of their school texts.
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Taylormade



Joined: 31 Oct 2012
Location: Incheon

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Canada there are two islands in the St. Lawrence river that are claimed by France. Yet there are no mass demonstrations, and noone is cutting off their fingers in protest. Most Canadians, when they even think about it, probably consider the existence of said islands as rather quaint.

That probably confuses a few Korean immigrants.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Strange. Why would you think that Koreans wouldn't miss Kimchi? That is perhaps the most obvious. It's like Canadians missing Tim Horton's, Europeans missing good beer, and Americans missing... I don't know: apple pie?

Also, I'm not conceptualizing what other people would feel, or telling fantasies based on prejudices: I'm relating things that have been told to me by Koreans. Many visitors, and many who have lived here for 5, 10, 15, 20 years. Now, perhaps I could have been clearer and mentioned that the items on my list were not brought up by ALL Koreans I know, and not all items were "troubling", some were just "hmmm. weird" or "interesting"


Sure they miss it. Annoyed by it? I don't think they expected to find Kimchi in every restaurant when they came over.

I guess its a bit semantical, sure there's things that are missed, but I wouldn't sense much annoyance over them. They know they aren't going to turn on the TV and see KDramas or go to Applebee's and find kimchi.

Quote:
"Why are there no Canadians / Why is everyone Asian / Aren't you angry there are no Canadians." And almost all of them can't seem to buy it when I tell them that most of those people could very well be just as Canadian as me.


Really, in my 200+ member church, at my workplace with my Korean boss, and with the KISA group no one seemed to have a problem with this concept.

Are you sure you aren't projecting the views of a vocal few, who might be exaggerating their words or not attempting to point out the exact distinction of what they know and feel?

Quote:
I'm not judging them, it's just a different attitude and way of thinking when it comes to nationalism. For 99.9% of Korean (IMO), you have to be Korean in blood to be a Korean. In places like Canada and the US, this just isn't the case (obvisouly... to us). But it's a different way of thinking for them.


That's an old world vs. New World attitude. All the old world countries were based on ethnicity.
===============================================
Quote:
In Canada there are two islands in the St. Lawrence river that are claimed by France. Yet there are no mass demonstrations, and noone is cutting off their fingers in protest. Most Canadians, when they even think about it, probably consider the existence of said islands as rather quaint.

That probably confuses a few Korean immigrants.


Like the British and the Falklands?

Or Britain, France, and America until their countries finally decided to act right in the 1960s and recognize that palces like Malaysia actually belong to Malaysians and are not the "British East Indies"
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KimchiNinja



Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah if you've had Korean friends in the US you don't need to imagine what would be on this list, they will tell you. The basic things people have already mentioned:

* Tipping; it's annoying, disturbs the eating experience with unnecessary pressure and complexity.
* Bad service; scowling at customers, not smiling, acting like they are the focus instead of the customer (oh I'm not actually a waitress I'm an actress). I watched a Korean guy I know go into shock in Europe (his first time out of KR) he just couldn't believe what was happening, how rude this airline chick was, and didn't know how to process it.
* No bell on the table; you end up playing the "twist your neck around at weird angles trying to flag down the staff" game, who are all purposely ignoring you. See above, connected to no pride in your work, and no punishment for taking no pride in your work.
* Strangers addressing you; at the bus stop, in the elevator. It triggers the "hey I don't know you and we are never going to see each other again, so why are you acting like we are long-lost buddies?" response. Koreans are freaked out by it.
* Kimchi withdrawal; this is a real thing, I had it in Finland after about 5 days of no spice, you get used to the spicy and start craving it!
* Burly unfeminine hick women; people get touchy about this so enough said. But I've also seen with dudes from India and China, some fatty barking out orders to a man, they just can't grasp "who this abhorrent creature in my face and what is the purpose of this?"

As a white guy I've experienced all this too when going from Korea back to a Western country. Actually, I had very little culture shock when coming to KR but much more reverse culture shock when going back to the West.
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everything-is-everything



Joined: 06 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave Chance wrote:
Singularity wrote:
Newbie wrote:
(will never forget how irrate my MIL and two of her sisters were to see a beautiful Korean woman with a black boyfriend. They just couldn't let it go)



Sounds like their anger was based on repressed sexual desires.


If you really get to know Korean women who are biased against people of color (and often also a lot of other things that go against "the norm/proper spec qualifications"), you will realize it's not repressed desire to get with a black guy.

They have been groomed to support and admire a certain type of foreigner by their church, the mass media, and even the content of their school texts.



I can understand someone not being interested in someone, but to get extremely upset over it makes me question the motives.

It's like a guy who is extremely homophobic. The first thing that comes to mind if that that guy is a closet homosexual.


Why would these middle-aged Korean women get so upset over seeing a younger Korean woman with a black guy.

I can understand a Korean man being upset, but a woman?

I don't think it's social conditioning. Like singularity said, it's likely a repressed desire. This young Korean woman is obviously a free spirit and not so worried about the stigma associated with dating a black guy. The adjummas in turn were likely jealous of the younger women as they were raised in a society where they could never be this free in a socially acceptable level.


People often secretly desire what they publically disdain IMO.
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edwardcatflap wrote:
Quote:
Not being able to buy liquor past 6 PM.
Not being able to buy alcohol on sundays.


Is that just in the bible belt, or everywhere? That would annoy the hell out of me too.

Where I'm from you can buy booze anytime and on any day at liquor stores. And many of them are owned by Koreans.
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

madoka wrote:
Newbie wrote:

Random things that are insanely expensive here compared to Korea (Batteries, for example)

Hmmm. . . I've had the opposite response from the Koreans I've met. It's much more of a 'holy crap!' everything is so much cheaper here response. The Hyundai Equus is $40,000 less to their own Samsung/LG big screen TVs being half the cost to $10 all-you-can-eat Korean BBQs - it's mind blowing to Korean tourists. The repeat visitors bring a ton of cash to go on shopping sprees at outlets. The only things I've found significantly cheaper in Korea was photo processing and Korean fast foods.

Canada is pretty expensive. You Americans enjoy prices that are on par with prices in the slums of Manila.
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Seoulman69



Joined: 14 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being mistaken for a Chinese, Japanese, other Asian person and peoples general ignorance about Korea would probably be my first guess of what would irritate Koreans in my home country.
The food might be a problem due to the difference in cooking methods and type of food. I've heard two stories of Koreans suffering constipation while in my home country.
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Newbie wrote:
I'm not judging them, it's just a different attitude and way of thinking when it comes to nationalism. For 99.9% of Korean (IMO), you have to be Korean in blood to be a Korean. In places like Canada and the US, this just isn't the case (obvisouly... to us). But it's a different way of thinking for them. I don't think I'm any better than them for my point of view.

If you dig deep enough, you'll find the same 'blood = nationality' mindset in most Europeans too. On the surface you won't notice it.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

newbie,

That was an interesting post. I will say one thing, it is (to me anyway) understandable that a person coming from a largely homogenous society that has next to no immigration would be shocked or surprised at diversity when coming face to face with it.

My brother's wife is Japanese and on their first visit to Canada she was shocked in much the same manner you described. It is less about nationalism and more about social view in my opinion.

I could also say that my wife has been asked (she lost count)where she is from and has had to then answer the "no, I meant where are you originally from" follow up question (which is not offensive or meant to insult). You could take this further and discuss how white canadians from small towns or from certain parts of Canada react to diversity and multiculturalism when they visit Toronto, Vancouver or Montreal.....the results are not always " oh look at all these Canadians".... Laughing
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Neil



Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Tokyo

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't be suprised if they're already getting annoyed at drunks yelling "Oppa! Gangnam style!" upon learning of their nationality. Haven't been home in a year but it surely must be happening.
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