Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Commonly misunderstood English words
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
bucheonleon



Joined: 04 Feb 2006

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Sharp," "pension," and "cider" all definitely belong on this list, regardless of their origins. Let's go back to the very original post, which said:

Quote:
Commonly misunderstood English words

List English words commonly misunderstood by Koreans. Say what they think it means, and what it actually means.


Sharp, pension, and cider are all definitely English words. Even if the *Korean* (Konglish) words may have entered the *Korean* language through other means (Japanese, proper nouns, etc.) that's irrelevant. We're not talking here about 샤프, 펜션, and 사이더-- those are words in the Korean language. We're talking about the English words.

Are they commonly misunderstood and misused by Koreans? Most definitely.

Imagine a Korean doing business overseas, and talking about his pension with an English speaker. It doesn't matter where the word comes from; the English speaker is going to recognize the word pension but be terribly confused because the Korean businessperson is using "pension" wrongly.

(Note: if the Korean was speaking in Korean using the word 펜션 he would be *correct*! It's a mistake only in English... the same as 기대하다 is *correct* when speaking Korean, but literally translating it to English as "I am expecting Christmas" is wrong, and should be changed to "I'm looking forward to Christmas.)

So with that said, here's my list:

Sharp. Kdef: A mechanical pencil. Edef: Having a pointy tip or cutting edge.

Cider. Kdef (possibly Jdef or whatever too, but irrelevant, because it's not Edef): Lemon-lime soda. Edef: 1. Unfiltered, raw apple juice; 2. Fermented apple juice containing alcohol.

(Where I come from, these are differentiated as "soft cider" and "hard cider")

Pension. Kdef: A rental house in the countryside. Edef: Retirement money.

If "pension" is used by native English speakers somewhere, I'm not aware of it. French has no bearing on anything here. If a French person while speaking English mistakenly uses a French word in place of an English one it's just as much a mistake as if a Korean does it... I find the argument about origins bizarre. Sure, every mistake has some kind of origin. So what?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
alongway



Joined: 02 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Imagine a Korean doing business overseas, and talking about his pension with an English speaker. It doesn't matter where the word comes from; the English speaker is going to recognize the word pension but be terribly confused because the Korean businessperson is using "pension" wrongly.

Except, as it's already been pointed out in this very thread pension is widely used in Europe, and a link was provided with the details

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension_%28lodging%29

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/pension--2

If you took the time to realize we'd discussed the french origins of the word, then you should have noticed that link being provided as well.

Cider is a word in use by several countries in a single region, namely Asia, all to mean basically the same thing. It's a regionalism

And I've already explained Sharp, it's no different than Kleenex. Not all native english speaking countries call tissue Kleenex, so there is no reason to claim that Sharp is a misuse just because your native country doesn't use that product name as a generic name.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
le-paul



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alongtheway, please change your user id to 'gottogetthelastwordin'.
and everyone else, might be a good idea to ignore him until it goes away.

sofa ( did anyone mention this?). kdef: any comfortable chair. usually with one seat. edef: 2/3 (possibly four or five) seated, cushioned chair.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jpe



Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Location: Seoul, SK

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This may have something to do with Korea's pension system, but: "Retirement" seems to mean "resigning from your career job" (possibly with a pension) but taking on some other form of work, whereas in English I've never heard it used to describe anything other than to stop working completely.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
b-class rambler



Joined: 25 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Pension", with the meaning that Koreans usually associate it with, may well be used in various parts of Europe.

HOWEVER....those are not native English speaking parts of Europe and it's not the English word they're using.

If you go to the UK or Ireland, Europe's only major English speaking countries, and use the word 'pension' to a native speaker there, then in all but an insignificant minority of cases, nobody would understand it by the Korean definition.

It might be different if you pronounced it in the way it's said in French/German, but you'd then no longer be using an English word.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
alongway



Joined: 02 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
HOWEVER....those are not native English speaking parts of Europe and it's not the English word they're using.

It's in the Oxford English dictionary with that meaning, I'd say that's sufficient. It's an English word used to describe exactly those kinds of places in those areas, the point wasn't that it was used only in Europe, that it was used to describe places in Europe by native speakers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Privateer



Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

double post

Last edited by Privateer on Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:38 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Privateer



Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

double post

Last edited by Privateer on Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:37 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Privateer



Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon makes a persuasive argument that 'pension' should be included. And alongtheway is right to say it's secondary definition as a hotel in English is recognized - learn something new every day - but this is very much secondary usage.

Updated List

Almost. Kdef: most or almost all. Edef: nearly.
Ballad. Kdef: a folk song. Edef: it has a wider meaning.
Body language. They think it means gestures, i.e. using your body to talk. It actually means what your body says whether you mean it to or not.
Bromide. Kdef: poster. Edef: chemical used in photography.
Cider. Kdef (possibly Jdef or whatever too, but irrelevant, because it's not Edef): Lemon-lime soda. Edef: 1. Unfiltered, raw apple juice; 2. Fermented apple juice containing alcohol.
Coating. Kdef: plastic lamination. Edef: any covering layer.
Condo. Kdef: a membership resort. Edef: an owned apartment.
Crazy. Kdef: a severe insult referring to a mental disorder. Edef1: mad or insane. Edef2: a slang word referring to something you admire.
Cup. Kdef: any vessel for drinking out of. Edef1: drinking vessels of the type used for tea, or disposable paper or plastic ones. Edef2: sports trophies similar in type to medieval drinking vessels.
Expect. Kdef: look forward to something. Edef: expect something.
Dung. Kdef: general term for excrement. Edef: term for animal excrement.
Famous. Kdef: having a good reputation or name. Edef: when a good many people have heard of something.
Funny. Kdef: fun or interesting. Edef1: amusing. Edef2: peculiar.
Glamour. kdef: big breasts. edef: um...
Handle. Kdef: steering wheel. Edef: broadly. something designed to be grasped by the hand, but never a steering wheel.
Hard. Kdef: difficult or arduous, but also the feeling of suffering you get in a difficult or tiring situation. Edef1: difficult or arduous. Edef2: firm.
Health. Kdef: health club. Edef: condition of the body.
Hips. Kdef: the buttocks. Edef: the hips.
Hometown. Kdef: your place of origin, including town, area, district, or neighbourhood. Edef: Your town of origin only.
Hunting. Kdef: cruising to meet members of the opposite sex. Edef: killing wild animals.
Knit. Kdef: a general term for a sweater. Edef: a term used in trade for certain types of knitted sweater, but not as a general term.
MacGyver. Kdef: multipurpose pocket knife. Edef: old TV series/character.
Marathon: kdef-any distance running race. Englishdef- a 26.2 mile race.
Meeting. KDef: A date; blind date; night on the town; often with sexual overtones. EDef: 1. A gathering of staff, employees, or associated people to discuss issues of mutual interest. 2. The temporary coming together of any two or more objects, persons or materials.
Menu. Kdef: a dish or item on a menu. Edef: a list of dishes available at a restaurant.
Nice to meet you! Kdef: a phrase you use whenever you see someone you know. Edef: a phrase you use the first time you meet someone.
Night. Kdef: night club. Edef: when the sky is dark.
Oh you are so poor. Kdef: an expression of sympathy, e.g. if you are sick. Edef: an observation that you have no money. 'You poor thing' would be the correct phrase.
Oil. Kdef: petroleum oil or gasoline. Edef: oil (lubricant)
One-piece. Kdef: a dress. Edef: a style of swimsuit. (I have seen certain types of dress referred to as one-pieces in English department stores but as a trade term rather than for general use)
Outside. Kdef: any place outside your home. Edef: anywhere out in the open. If you were working in an office all day, you were not 'outside'.
Overeat. Kdef: vomit or throw up. Edef: eat too much.
Padding. Kdef: outerwear filled with down or synthetics. Edef: the stuff that pads something.
Panty. Kdef: male or female undershorts. Edef: (panties) short underpants for females.
Pension. Kdef: A rental house in the countryside. Edef1: A fund collected after retirement. Edef2: A small hotel in Europe (from the French)
Pot boiler. KDef: A suspense thriller. "I like pot boiler". EDef: A low quality play, opera, film, novel or other work of art.
Prepare an item. Kdef: get an item you need in order to get ready for something else, e.g. prepare spoons (for a picnic) Edef: make an item ready, e.g. prepare sandwiches (which need work, as opposed to spoons, which don't).
Promise. KDef: Meeting, meetup, appointment. "Sorry I'm busy on Saturday. I have a promise". EDef: 1. A serious agreement, contract, or commitment made to another person or persons.
Running. Kdef: sleeveless T-shirt. Edef: moving faster than a walk.
Sharp. Kdef: A mechanical pencil. Edef: Having a pointy tip or cutting edge.
Sofa. Kdef: either sofa or armchair. Edef: sofa only.
Soso. Koreans think it means OK. In reality westerners rarely say this and if they do, it means very mediocre.
Stamina. Kdef: sexual stamina only. Edef: staying-power in all contexts, especially sport.
Stand. Kdef: lamp. Edef: many meanings, never lamp.
Toast. Kdef: grilled egg sandwich. Edef: toasted slice of bread.
Too Kdef1: also. Kdef2: very. For example, "I'm too hungry... let's go eat." Edef1: also. Edef2: overly or to an excessive degree. E.g. "I'm too hungry to concentrate".
Until. Kdef: 'by' meaning 'no later than'. E.g. "I'll finish the work until 6". Edef: 'until' meaning 'at but not before'. E.g. "I won't finish the work until 6".
Veranda. Kdef: a glassed-in utility room. Edef: a large open porch.
Villa. Kdef: a small walk-up apartment. Edef: an upscale country house.
Walker. Kdef: army-style boots (popular among teens these days). Edef: walking support.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
alongway



Joined: 02 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
bucheon makes a persuasive argument that 'pension' should be included. And alongtheway is right to say it's secondary definition as a hotel in English is recognized - learn something new every day - but this is very much secondary usage.

I'd say if you're just learning that English words can have multiple meanings you've got no business making a list like this.

His persuasive argument is nothing more than than pretending something doesn't exist. It comes from a fundamental misunderstanding that he was unaware that that was actually a definition of the word.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
everything-is-everything



Joined: 06 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alongway wrote:
Quote:
bucheon makes a persuasive argument that 'pension' should be included. And alongtheway is right to say it's secondary definition as a hotel in English is recognized - learn something new every day - but this is very much secondary usage.

I'd say if you're just learning that English words can have multiple meanings you've got no business making a list like this.

His persuasive argument is nothing more than than pretending something doesn't exist. It comes from a fundamental misunderstanding that he was unaware that that was actually a definition of the word.



You came aggressive from the start with your pompous arguments and when corrected dug in your heels and became even more of a moron.

Look, some of these phrases may be widely used in Europe, but we're coming from an English speaking perspective here.


I encounter these mistakes on a regular basis and Privateer's list is spot on. I don't know how you can argue with this unless you've never associated with Koreans.


Furthermo....ah screw it, you're not worth anymore of my time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
alongway



Joined: 02 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Look, some of these phrases may be widely used in Europe, but we're coming from an English speaking perspective here.

As in words that are in the Oxford dictionary with that meaning? They refer to a place in Europe, they aren't solely only in use by European ESL speakers.
I've interacted with Koreans plenty, I used to think pension was odd too, until I took the time to actually look it up and realize that it used in other English countries differently.

I'll be sure to let this British couple know they're using their language incorrectly according to everything-is-everything
http://www.pension-williams.com/
or these ones
http://www.dalyangardenpension.co.uk/
You should probably contact the Guardian to tell them to make sure they write in proper English so that their readers can understand them
http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2011/jul/13/top-10-pensiones-rome
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
b-class rambler



Joined: 25 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alongway wrote:
Quote:
HOWEVER....those are not native English speaking parts of Europe and it's not the English word they're using.

It's in the Oxford English dictionary with that meaning, I'd say that's sufficient.


It is in the Oxford Dictionary, but the OD entry shows the pronunciation as being different from the word with the same spelling that has the more common meaning associated by native English speakers.

I'd say that it's very likely that in all those British examples you listed above, the people involved would pronounce the word in the way the French (or in the last case Italians) do, which is different from how they'd pronounce 'pension' with the usual meaning.

So I'd agree with those saying that the inclusion of 'pension' in Privateer's list, as it was originally, was correct. If Koreans hangeulised and pronounced it in (or as close as they could get to) the way the French word is, then it'd be different. But they don't.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
everything-is-everything



Joined: 06 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

b-class rambler wrote:

So I'd agree with those saying that the inclusion of 'pension' in Privateer's list, as it was originally, was correct. If Koreans hangeulised and pronounced it in (or as close as they could get to) the way the French word is, then it'd be different. But they don't.


Correct. If you went to England and asked someone about "pensions" they would be confused.

Pension is like arubite. Both words may be well known on continental Europe, but in English speaking countries they are not.

Jeeze, it's so simple, but some hard heads cannot accept this.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
b-class rambler



Joined: 25 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, "Arbeit" probably isn't known much in Europe other than in German speaking areas as it's the German word for "work" (rather than 'temporary/part-time job' that the Konglish and Janglish words mean in East Asia).

But yes, like 'pension', many Koreans (and Japanese too) wrongly believe that it's come to their language from English and are surprised when English speakers are confused by them using it.

Unlike 'Arbeit' though, there happens to be an English word with the same spelling and Koreans mispronounce their French origin word, making it sound like that other English word.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13  Next
Page 9 of 13

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2013 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International