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Commonly misunderstood English words
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everything-is-everything



Joined: 06 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alongway wrote:

That's got a revisionist sound to it. I'll have to look it up, it was a couple years ago I was reading up on it and read that it came with many other words from Japan. There are a lot of konglish words that first made it from English into Japanese and then into Korean which is why they sometimes have slightly off meanings or sounds.

The wikipedia article on it has 3 citations claiming it's an English loanword, and the first 2 I read don't actually mention that it is that at all (one is only a sentence, and doesn't remotely say anything like that). The third I'll have to read again, but it doesn't exactly seem to say that. They both make a comparison stating that the word 화이팅/파이팅 isn't anything like the actual meaning of the word "Fighting" in English.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htJ_oaPosfI


So according to this because trainers would say "fight" to encourage their boxers to actually fight, Korean trainers adopted the same phrase, added a gerund and butchered the pronunciation of the letter "f"

and this resulted in the term "화이팅"



Koreans can feel free to use this word anyway they want when speaking their own language, but when using the term while speaking English it sounds horrible Laughing

The grammar is just wrong on so many levels.


Last edited by everything-is-everything on Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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everything-is-everything



Joined: 06 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alongway wrote:
everything-is-everything wrote:
Dude how about you read the thread title, look at your pension argument and kindly place foot in mouth.

I don't even know what your are arguing for.


I did

The point was that of course they would never refer to a cottage or a chalet as a pension, there are already well defined words for that. However, the use of Pension isn't strictly limited to just the traditional definition. The guardian article uses it to refer to some places which are not traditional pensions indicating that the meaning is not quite that specific. The dictionary definition doesn't even go into the full definition of the traditional pension, and all Korea and other asian countries have done is extend the definition from continental europe to include asia. Hardly a huge twist or change to a word.


Screw the dictionary definition!

As teachers here, part of our job is to help the students use the correct vocabulary so that our students can effectively communicate when speaking with native English speakers or visiting English speaking countries.

Therefore correcting the way Koreans use the term pension is perfectly reasonable.




.......


So I just won the argument here. Thank you very much. No more comments from you are required.

Thanks for playing.

Wink
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b-class rambler



Joined: 25 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alongway wrote:
If a Korean says "I stayed at a pension last weekend" the context should be quite clear which you are talking about. If you can't figure out the context from that, the issue isn't with the Korean.



But the issue is not whether you, or anyone else, thinks people should understand. It's whether they, in fact, would understand.

If you really want to believe that you could go to the UK, refer to a "pension", pronounced the way Koreans say it and meaning what Koreans mean by it, and usually be understood without need for clarification by people in Britain, then fair enough, and I wish you good luck should you ever go to the UK and put your theory to the test.
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maitaidads



Joined: 08 Oct 2012

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mountain Climbing.
kdef: hiking
edef: scaling a mountain usually using ropes/extreme gear
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nautilus



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Band

KDef: A plaster for dressing wounds
EDef: A group of several people, often musicians
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atwood



Joined: 26 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alongway wrote:
schwa wrote:
b-class rambler wrote:
...I'd agree with those saying that the inclusion of 'pension' in Privateer's list, as it was originally, was correct. If Koreans hangeulised and pronounced it in (or as close as they could get to) the way the French word is, then it'd be different. But they don't.

I agree with this. Actually, I'm surprised that Koreans anglicized the pronunciation in the first place, as other borrowed french-origin words show some attempt at french pronunciation, even common english words like restaurant (레스토랑) or buffet (뷔페). Or other french loan words, like vacances (holidays) or pierrot (clown), which many Koreans nevertheless think are english.


Also, me too, I dont get why alongway insists on being so rude & insulting every time he comments. This thread could simply be a friendly discussion about a language topic which a lot of other people evidently find interesting & informative.

Not something to get your panties in a knot over.

They may have anglicized the pronunciation because they got it from English speakers and not French speakers.

As far as being rude and insulting, I'd question why it is that some supposedly educated people can't exercise a modicum of intelligence and critical thinking. Le paul is the prime example as he spent several posts trying to push his imperialistic view that "soccer uniform" is a complete misuse of english despite the fact that hundreds of millions of native english speakers use that phrase, and even when other users pointed that out he stuck his head in the sand and then just resorted to making lame pot shots.

I think it was apparent right from the first post that people weren't really interested in a serious discussion of words as the lack of effort was obvious. As I said a time or two, it would take people all of 30 seconds to a minute to check to see if native speakers outside of your personal circle actually use the words in the way that Koreans do in some cases. When that was pointed out to them, most of them simply started dancing try to come up with more and more reasons that something was being misused despite the fact that it really wasn't.

Let's not forget your last post:
Quote:
Cider definitely warrants inclusion. Classic konglish.

and classic japlish, chinglish, etc.

It would seem that some people just don't like being taken to task for the things they say in open public discussion forums and if that's the case, I might suggest they start a blog and post with the comments disabled or pre-moderated so they can get the result they want. Because honestly if they think they've got all the rights to come in here and just spout ignorance, then I can't see how it is that no one has the right to take them to task for it.

Your reliance on supposition demonstrates you're not nearly the expert you claim to be and that your criticism of others is merely the pot calling the kettle black.
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Privateer



Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

everything-is-everything wrote:
So according to this because trainers would say "fight" to encourage their boxers to actually fight, Korean trainers adopted the same phrase, added a gerund and butchered the pronunciation of the letter "f"

and this resulted in the term "화이팅"


I find it mysterious that low level Koreans use the gerund form as an imperative, given that they never hear anyone use it that way, and they hear NETS give classroom instructions in normal imperative mode every class. What is going on in their heads, I wonder?
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mdsb87



Joined: 16 Aug 2010
Location: Gyeongsangnam do

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One that drives me nuts is K-kids saying "cunning!" When someone is copying their work. They have also used "hacking!" in the same way.

Cunning Kdef: cheating or copying work
Edef: sly or clever in a devious way.

Hacking Kdef: cheating or copying work
Edef: accessing someone's computer without their permission.

I have also found they often misuse "introduce". For example, "Let me introduce what I ate yesterday". That should be "tell you about" IMO.
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schwa



Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: sokcho

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Classic. Kdef: classical (music). Edef: historically memorable, setting a standard.


Theres a whole subset of konglish shortenings or abbreviations of english terms that fall, it seems, outside this list. I might argue they deserve inclusion: they're based on english & widely thought to be standard english.

I was reminded of this today when a student told me she'd just watched a "docu" (ie a documentary), expecting that term was familiar to me. Just from the realm of media & entertainment, other examples of this that come to mind:

ero = erotic video, porn
melo = melodrama
back music = background music
back singer = backup singer
CF (from "commercial film") = tv ad
PD (from "program director") = producer
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nautilus



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdsb87 wrote:

Cunning.


To my ears they pronounce it "Conning". As in the english to cheat or mislead someone.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone want to delve into all of the k-defs for cars and such?
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Privateer



Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Training. Kdef: fitness training only, or exercise in general. Edef1: any activity designed to teach you a practical or vocational skill. Edef2: physical exercise in preparation for a sporting event.
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schwa



Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: sokcho

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Privateer wrote:
Training. Kdef: fitness training only, or exercise in general. Edef1: any activity designed to teach you a practical or vocational skill. Edef2: physical exercise in preparation for a sporting event.

"Training" is also used here to mean track suit.
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Privateer



Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Updated List

Almost. Kdef: most or almost all. Edef: nearly.
Ballad. Kdef: a folk song. Edef: it has a wider meaning.
Band . KDef: A plaster or band-aid for dressing wounds. EDef: A group of several people, often musicians
Body language. They think it means gestures, i.e. using your body to talk. It actually means what your body says whether you mean it to or not.
Bromide. Kdef: poster. Edef: chemical used in photography.
Cider. Kdef (possibly Jdef or whatever too, but irrelevant, because it's not Edef): Lemon-lime soda. Edef: 1. Unfiltered, raw apple juice; 2. Fermented apple juice containing alcohol.
Classic. Kdef: classical (music). Edef: historically memorable, setting a standard.
Coating. Kdef: plastic lamination. Edef: any covering layer.
Condo. Kdef: a membership resort. Edef: an owned apartment.
Crazy. Kdef: a severe insult referring to a mental disorder. Edef1: mad or insane. Edef2: a slang word referring to something you admire.
Cunning Kdef: cheating or copying work. Edef: sly or clever in a devious way.
Cup. Kdef: any vessel for drinking out of. Edef1: drinking vessels of the type used for tea, or disposable paper or plastic ones. Edef2: sports trophies similar in type to medieval drinking vessels.
Expect. Kdef: look forward to something. Edef: expect something.
Dung. Kdef: general term for excrement. Edef: term for animal excrement.
Famous. Kdef: having a good reputation or name. Edef: when a good many people have heard of something.
Funny. Kdef: fun or interesting. Edef1: amusing. Edef2: peculiar.
Glamour. kdef: big breasts. edef: um...
Hacking Kdef: cheating or copying work. Edef: accessing someone's computer without their permission.
Handle. Kdef: steering wheel. Edef: broadly. something designed to be grasped by the hand, but never a steering wheel.
Hard. Kdef: difficult or arduous, but also the feeling of suffering you get in a difficult or tiring situation. Edef1: difficult or arduous. Edef2: firm.
Health. Kdef: health club. Edef: condition of the body.
Hips. Kdef: the buttocks. Edef: the hips.
Hometown. Kdef: your place of origin, including town, area, district, or neighbourhood. Edef: Your town of origin only.
Hunting. Kdef: cruising to meet members of the opposite sex. Edef: killing wild animals.
Knit. Kdef: a general term for a sweater. Edef: a term used in trade for certain types of knitted sweater, but not as a general term.
MacGyver. Kdef: multipurpose pocket knife. Edef: old TV series/character.
Marathon: kdef-any distance running race. Englishdef- a 26.2 mile race.
Meeting. KDef: A date; blind date; night on the town; often with sexual overtones. EDef: 1. A gathering of staff, employees, or associated people to discuss issues of mutual interest. 2. The temporary coming together of any two or more objects, persons or materials.
Menu. Kdef: a dish or item on a menu. Edef: a list of dishes available at a restaurant.
Nice to meet you! Kdef: a phrase you use whenever you see someone you know. Edef: a phrase you use the first time you meet someone.
Night. Kdef: night club. Edef: when the sky is dark.
Oh you are so poor. Kdef: an expression of sympathy, e.g. if you are sick. Edef: an observation that you have no money. 'You poor thing' would be the correct phrase.
Oil. Kdef: petroleum oil or gasoline. Edef: oil (lubricant)
One-piece. Kdef: a dress. Edef: a style of swimsuit. (I have seen certain types of dress referred to as one-pieces in English department stores but as a trade term rather than for general use)
Outside. Kdef: any place outside your home. Edef: anywhere out in the open. If you were working in an office all day, you were not 'outside'.
Overeat. Kdef: vomit or throw up. Edef: eat too much.
Padding. Kdef: outerwear filled with down or synthetics. Edef: the stuff that pads something.
Panty. Kdef: male or female undershorts. Edef: (panties) short underpants for females.
Pension. Kdef: A rental house in the countryside. Edef1: A fund collected after retirement. Edef2: A small hotel in Europe (from the French)
Pot boiler. KDef: A suspense thriller. "I like pot boiler". EDef: A low quality play, opera, film, novel or other work of art.
Prepare an item. Kdef: get an item you need in order to get ready for something else, e.g. prepare spoons (for a picnic) Edef: make an item ready, e.g. prepare sandwiches (which need work, as opposed to spoons, which don't).
Promise. KDef: Meeting, meetup, appointment. "Sorry I'm busy on Saturday. I have a promise". EDef: 1. A serious agreement, contract, or commitment made to another person or persons.
Running. Kdef: sleeveless T-shirt. Edef: moving faster than a walk.
Sharp. Kdef: A mechanical pencil. Edef: Having a pointy tip or cutting edge.
Sofa. Kdef: either sofa or armchair. Edef: sofa only.
Soso. Koreans think it means OK. In reality westerners rarely say this and if they do, it means very mediocre.
Stamina. Kdef: sexual stamina only. Edef: staying-power in all contexts, especially sport.
Stand. Kdef: lamp. Edef: many meanings, never lamp.
Toast. Kdef: grilled egg sandwich. Edef: toasted slice of bread.
Too Kdef1: also. Kdef2: very. For example, "I'm too hungry... let's go eat." Edef1: also. Edef2: overly or to an excessive degree. E.g. "I'm too hungry to concentrate".
Training. Kdef: fitness training only, or exercise in general. Edef1: any activity designed to teach you a practical or vocational skill. Edef2: physical exercise in preparation for a sporting event.
Until. Kdef: 'by' meaning 'no later than'. E.g. "I'll finish the work until 6". Edef: 'until' meaning 'at but not before'. E.g. "I won't finish the work until 6".
Veranda. Kdef: a glassed-in utility room. Edef: a large open porch.
Villa. Kdef: a small walk-up apartment. Edef: an upscale country house.
Walker. Kdef: army-style boots (popular among teens these days). Edef: walking support.
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geldedgoat



Joined: 05 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't believe no one's added follow yet.

My first exposure to that went something along the lines of:
student: Teacher! Teacher! Hana follow me!
me: But you've both been sitting down the entire class...
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