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Jobs where they should speak English well but fail to do so
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Stamos jr. wrote:
Steelrails wrote:
I'd say that part of what makes me an "apologist"...


... is that you are Korean, right? I'm not trying to jab at you, I'm fine with that, no worries; but, obviously, that plays a role in the matter... no reason to beat around the bush.


100% wrong. I would be just as much an apologist for the country if I were an NET in Peru or Dubai.

It's not about being pro-Korea. It's about cultural understanding, treating people as individuals, looking in the mirror before you take a culture to task, and going beyond the surface for explanations of behavior and why things are, and searching for common ground between human beings.

On this board I have been an "apologist" in other threads for Canadians, African-Americans, and Muslims as well as NETs when someone comes in with an anti-NET rant.

What makes me an apologist is such ideas as "do unto others" (which people here seem to scream at Koreans for not doing, then do themselves) and "not pointing out the speck of dust in someone's eye, when you have a plank in yours". As well as concepts such as equality, humility, and understanding.


Last edited by Steelrails on Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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John Stamos jr.



Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Location: Namsan

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
John Stamos jr. wrote:
Steelrails wrote:
I'd say that part of what makes me an "apologist"...


... is that you are Korean, right? I'm not trying to jab at you, I'm fine with that, no worries; but, obviously, that plays a role in the matter... no reason to beat around the bush.


100% wrong. I would be just as much an apologist for the country if I were an NET in Peru or Dubai.


Somehow, I doubt that. Though you may see yourself as a 100% objective observer, that's a little hard to believe. You're a Korean guy, living in Korea, who is posting in a forum that deals with Korean issues, and are a self proclaimed "apologist" for the country of Korea. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that! But, come on dude, we know the deal. Self-awareness has to kick in at some point.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not Korean, yet I seem to agree with SR on this issue.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Steelrails is being honest. I could very much see him writing out long rants defending pretty much anywhere from what he saw as unreasonable criticism. "So what if they don't let me go into Mecca as a non-Muslim? Unless it hits me in the pocket book, I don't care! Blah blah blah blah..."
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John Stamos jr.



Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Location: Namsan

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
I'm not Korean, yet I seem to agree with SR on this issue.


What issue? Him being Korean? Oh, I agree as well. And, aren't you also considered to be an apologist? I know, it's a stupid term. I hate using it.

Yeah, I'm sure SR could rant about just about anything from just about anywhere, and not necessarily be wrong. But, eh... gonna say that what I said before plays a factor, despite his noble attempt to display his absolute objectivity.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not Korean either yet I also agree with SR.

Clearly ethnicity is not a critical factor in this.
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John Stamos jr.



Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Location: Namsan

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with him on what? That he's completely, 100% objective? Alright... Get Patrick to come on here and agree also, and you can have another agree fest with all four of you together. We all know you agree with each other, lol. You are "the apologists". Still not a big fan of that word, but, eh, whatever.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Stamos jr. wrote:
Agree with him on what? That he's completely, 100% objective? ...



No. I agree with him on this

Quote:
What makes me an apologist is such ideas as "do unto others" (which people here seem to scream at Koreans for not doing, then do themselves) and "not pointing out the speck of dust in someone's eye, when you have a plank in yours". As well as concepts as equality, humility, and understanding.


But okay I can understand you're not a big fan of those concepts.
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John Stamos jr.



Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Location: Namsan

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice one.
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everything-is-everything



Joined: 06 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
I'm not Korean, yet I seem to agree with SR on this issue.


Dude you're the biggest homer on this board! Of course you agree with Steels.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Stamos jr. wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
I'm not Korean, yet I seem to agree with SR on this issue.


What issue? Him being Korean? Oh, I agree as well. And, aren't you also considered to be an apologist? I know, it's a stupid term. I hate using it.

Yeah, I'm sure SR could rant about just about anything from just about anywhere, and not necessarily be wrong. But, eh... gonna say that what I said before plays a factor, despite his noble attempt to display his absolute objectivity.


Then explain my stances on other threads regarding Canadians, Muslims, African-Americans, and more.

Could it be that I just think that railing on other cultures when there are obvious examples of similar behaviors back home strikes me as bad behavior.

Could there be a possibility, that perhaps, as fellow human beings, both you and Koreans are prone to the same behavior? Or do you believe there is something so substantial as to make Korean people prone to some unhuman behaviors or make you immune to such impulses?

Quote:
Dude you're the biggest homer on this board! Of course you agree with Steels.


Did it ever occur that the reason we are apologists is because of our beliefs, not that we have certain beliefs because we are apologists?

At the same time we're not clones of each other. Get a thread on smoking and drinking going and you'll see a significant difference in opinion between me and The Capn or TUM. You've got chimney drunkard Steelrails and the more temperate CapN and TUM.

But there does seem to be an underlying moral view of the world that we tend to share. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think all of the apologists tend to lean right-of-center politically with perhaps me and Madoka leaning more towards the libertarian side of things.

Which might explain my view difference with smoking and drinking..."I won't bash the Koreans for being drunkard smoke belchers because I'm one meself." Whereas TUM and CapN tend to be more order and authority based ( a view I nonetheless respect).

Who knows I'm rambling....
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
I'm not Korean, yet I seem to agree with SR on this issue.


Not Korean either and I too agree with SR on this issue.
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John Stamos jr.



Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Location: Namsan

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
John Stamos jr. wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
I'm not Korean, yet I seem to agree with SR on this issue.


What issue? Him being Korean? Oh, I agree as well. And, aren't you also considered to be an apologist? I know, it's a stupid term. I hate using it.

Yeah, I'm sure SR could rant about just about anything from just about anywhere, and not necessarily be wrong. But, eh... gonna say that what I said before plays a factor, despite his noble attempt to display his absolute objectivity.


Then explain my stances on other threads regarding Canadians, Muslims, African-Americans, and more.

Could it be that I just think that railing on other cultures when there are obvious examples of similar behaviors back home strikes me as bad behavior.


Whoa there, partner. You're getting ahead of yourself, but I'll roll with it. So, stating that you're an "apologist" for a multitude of different nationalities, excuses you from any potential bias towards Korea when you, as a Korean, apologize for their behavior/culture/etc.?

Quote:
Could there be a possibility, that perhaps, as fellow human beings, both you and Koreans are prone to the same behavior? Or do you believe there is something so substantial as to make Korean people prone to some unhuman behaviors or make you immune to such impulses?


Of course people are prone to similar behavior everywhere. We all walk, talk, and do ridiculous crap. But, cultural differences abound and vary throughout the world; some are funny, strange, stupid, irritating, and on and on. That doesn't mean they're not worth discussing or being opined about openly. There's nothing (using your words) "unhuman" about any part of it. It's just stupid cultural stuff. However, I think you may be deluding yourself to assume yourself to be a completely centered, unbiased, 100% objectively minded person (as anyone would be)... when, at the end of the day, you are a self-labeled Korean "apologist" who is living in Korea, is Korean, and consistently posting on a Korean forum. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and I know you're a pretty honest person on here. It's the self-ascription of absolute objectivity that I don't necessarily believe.

Quote:
Not Korean either and I too agree with SR on this issue.


Did I call that? Yeah, I called that. Cool
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nautilus



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:16 am    Post subject: Re: Jobs where they should speak English well but fail to do Reply with quote

Zackback wrote:
Have you ever been in a situation where because of their particular job you assumed they would be able to communicate with you in English but they couldn't - at least not well enough to give you the information you needed?



There are numerous excellent english speakers in this country, the vast majority of them women.

But they don't get given the jobs!

Because Korea is a male-dominated society, an old boy network that reserves nice jobs for men only.

The best jobs are given to people based on a family relation giving them the job, not on english ability. Korea is corrupt when it comes to employment. Academic credentials count for little, its who you know.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was not difficult to call because on such issues we (captain, urban, SR and others) tend to agree.
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