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background checks legal?
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howardp



Joined: 28 Aug 2012

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:07 am    Post subject: background checks legal? Reply with quote

Okay, this a topic that effects everyone so I would appreciate some feedback!

First, has anyone fought this requirement or did everyone just accept it? From this study (http://www.scribd.com/doc/15768998/Nhrck-Report-2)written in 2009 it seems as if the background checks requirement is a policy based on a memo from the immigration department and is not even supported by Korean law, let alone US!!
I know that there are labor treaties between the US and Korea that protect foreign workers who go there against discrimination---and that is exactly how this policy(NOT LAW)is being used.
Now, while I agree that Korea has the right to keep out people with criminal backgrounds that would endanger children, this policy is being used to keep out ANYONE with ANY arrest on their record, no matter when it occured!?
Drunk driving? Not allowed! Littering? Not allowed(if arrested for it)! Jaywalking? Not allowed! If someone was arrested for public urination in the US they would not be allowed to come to Korea---even though you can see that almost daily there!

Obviously this is personal with me, as I have been told by two different recruitment agencies that my dissmissed arrest from 25 years ago means I am cannot get Immigrations okay to work in Korea!! This is after I have worked in Korea for 10 YEARS---before the checks started!

I have heard that some people with arrests are let through the application process. Is it the individual judgment of the person at Korean Embassy reading the background check?
And lets not even talk about while all foreigners have to go through this process, Koreans don't! I guess in Korea, only foreigners commit crimes! Evil or Very Mad Shocked Mad Evil or Very Mad
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YTMND



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
First, has anyone fought this requirement or did everyone just accept it?


I, uh, muttered a few angst positions back then.

However, criminal background checks are normal now. Welcome to the end of 2012, going on into 2013.

They started this a few years ago. We are all on board with it. Your best bet is to get a criminal background checkaroo!! and hope that 25 year ago gash mark doesn't show.

You wee yo. Good luck.
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newb



Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Korea as a sovereign nation has the right to set their own immigration law and requirement for foreigners to serve their needs like in any other countries.

E-2 visa is a foreign English instructor visa working with children. If I were a Korean parent, I would want to make sure my kid's teacher is not a criminal or sex offender.

Quote:
this policy is being used to keep out ANYONE with ANY arrest on their record, no matter when it occured!?
Drunk driving? Not allowed! Littering? Not allowed(if arrested for it)! Jaywalking? Not allowed! If someone was arrested for public urination in the US they would not be allowed to come to Korea---even though you can see that almost daily there!


Sorry, but Korean immigration has set the rule that you must have "clean record" for E-2 visa.

Quote:
Obviously this is personal with me, as I have been told by two different recruitment agencies that my dissmissed arrest from 25 years ago means I am cannot get Immigrations okay to work in Korea!! This is after I have worked in Korea for 10 YEARS---before the checks started!


You can blame our government for including the dismissed arrest in your record. You have to hurdle through an expungement proceeding to remove your record.

Quote:
And lets not even talk about while all foreigners have to go through this process, Koreans don't! I guess in Korea, only foreigners commit crimes!


Korean are also required to submit their criminal record to local POE to teach.
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

newb wrote:
Korea as a sovereign nation has the right to set their own immigration law and requirement for foreigners to serve their needs like in any other countries.


Who's arguing otherwise? Oh, here's another fun fact: Korea is required to honor its treaty obligations and (supposedly) its own laws, including its own constitution. But, hey, what's pissing on a treaty or two or a Korean law or two if it's only a darn dirty foreigner who suffers?

Quote:
E-2 visa is a foreign English instructor visa working with children. If I were a Korean parent, I would want to make sure my kid's teacher is not a criminal or sex offender.


That sounds reasonable. That is, until the reality of the situation rears its ugly head, said reality posters like you refuse to admit. I'd love to know that the Koreans working at the hagweons, both Korean nationals and Korean ethnic foreigners who are working on other than the E-2 visa are not criminals or sex offenders. I'd love to know that the hagweon foreign teacher who's married to a Korean is not a criminal or sex offender. But until the check is required for everyone and not just E-2 visa applicants, then I guess we'll never know that, will we?

And tossing out "It's required to teach at the public schools" doesn't have a dang thing to do with teaching in a hagweon. Unless by some magic every hagweon in the country stopped admitting children as students, then every single person working there, regardless of nationality, ethnic origin, or even job, has interaction with children there.

Quote:
Sorry, but Korean immigration has set the rule that you must have "clean record" for E-2 visa.


Ah, I see there's a glint of the vision of reality there. The clean record is required for the E-2 visa.

Quote:
You can blame our government for including the dismissed arrest in your record. You have to hurdle through an expungement proceeding to remove your record.


Or Korea could simply quit jerking their knee, so to speak, and realize what the words "dismissed" or "acquitted" happen to mean.

Quote:
Korean are also required to submit their criminal record to local POE to teach.


But they're not required to do that for the hagweons, huh? If it's changed, I'd love to see proof of that. After all, if the actual reason is to protect the children--as opposed to scoring political points by portraying those darn foreigners as criminals and sex fiends--then, by all means, require that check for every foreign national who's coming to teach in Korea at either a POE-run school or a hagweon. I would have no complaint about that. My complaint is the unfair manner in which the policy has been designed and implemented.

I'm not holding my breath expecting this to get any fairer (everyone--and I mean everyone--working with children, regardless of the type of school provides background check). The main reason I'm not expecting it is because of that awesome cluster when the Korean government started (continued?) spouting nonsense on the subject. Or perhaps you don't recall when the Korean government, without bothering to check with the embassies concerned, told everyone that our embassies can apostille our documents? Ah, yes, now that was some sparkling stuff.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this debate is stale...

Any country has the right to require verifications from foreign workers, including criminal checks. In fact, it makes sense to do so.

could the system be improved? You bet!

Is it wrong or bad? Nope.
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way the policy has been designed and implemented is wrong.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is implemented with some efficiency issues Cali. I agree.

I do not think it is "wrong" however.

Still, not looking to get into a heated debate on this here man, we have been around this block a few times. I respect your position, I assume you will afford me the same respect.

Cheers
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea of background checks for anyone and everyone--and I'm talking about the teachers, the bus drivers, the janitors, the school office staff, and even taxi drivers (seriously, how is it that a convicted Korean sex offender can get a taxi license?)--dealing with children is a great idea. No complaint there. In fact, I was very surprised when I first taught in Korea that one was not required. What is wrong is the utter BS which the Korean government floated as to why they were targeting a specific set of teachers, not everyone, for the checks. That's not a matter of inefficiency. It's a matter of pandering to sensationalism and, yes, to the prejudice of people who believe utter falsehoods about the targeted group. The cynic in me suspects that the non-targeted group (people with Korean spouses and people likely with Korean relatives they actually know) was specifically left out because their Korean spouses/relatives would vote the bums out of office.

The OP asked about its legality. I don't recall the lady's name, but one woman refused to knuckle under and actually protested through Korea's legal channels, citing Korean laws on the matter. I also don't recall the ultimate decision, if any, by Korea's courts.

I respect you as a person and a poster, Patrick. The thing is, the current CBC policy deserves no respect. Change it to make it fair and to make it do what it's purportedly in place to do and then it'll be a decent, a respectable policy. What Korea has at the moment, though, is not that.
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hellofaniceguy



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

newb wrote:
E-2 visa is a foreign English instructor visa working with children. If I were a Korean parent, I would want to make sure my kid's teacher is not a criminal or sex offender.


What does it have to do with being a korean parent? Why not just plan old parent!? In any country!

I would not use a wide paint brush...we all know to well that many folks have been wrongly convicted...sure..be careful..ask questions, do check and verify..but don't just assume because one has a record that they are 100%
guilty...
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ttompatz



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and it is law - immigration act and education act....

and to the OP... the laws are pretty much the same as the ones they were modeled on - US immigration laws.

People with ANYTHING on their own background checks are usually unable to enter the US. Reciprocal treatment.

At least here you can enter as a tourist.

Don't like it... deal with your own government, whose systems are broken, and who have criminalized just about 25% of their own population.

.
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Skippy



Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:20 am    Post subject: Re: background checks legal? Reply with quote

You can rail against the system as much as you want. Getting a change will be a whole bunch of hard work that most people here do not want to do. Why not? Because it does not really affect them. Maybe you could start the Association of Teachers in Korea with Criminal Record group. ATKCR.

I have a couple more points.

1. Uhh where have you been the last 5 or so years. The criminal records check is not new anymore. So how for the last five years have you been avoiding the check? Getting away with the state check? Married to a Korean? Korean-American?

2. Rather then whinging about your dilemma, what do you want? From your post you want to fight the Korean government to change the law! It has been done, the women who decided to fight against the HIV testing. Still that takes time and money. You do ask sort of about hearing about people who have minor records being given visas. So is this what you want? Information on this?

3. There are other options if you put the effort in.

A. You could fight the law (and the law will likely win).
B. You could try for a pardon or getting your records expunged. It has been 25 years. Do some more research.
C. There is the maybe of forgiveness and a break from immigration (or MOE). Yet that takes work again and some luck.

4. OK, you have been told by two recruitment companies that you will be refused a visa. Do you know why? Little bit more help here, "Do you know why the recruiters told you this and why?" Do you understand the nature of the recruiters. They want the most money for the least amount of work possible. In this market, you are lots of work for possible money. Sorry, there are 25 people ahead of you who have no record and are easier to deal with.
If you want a job, then sorry it will be all ON you. Because most recruiters will not work with you. Plus some schools, too. Too much effort. Maybe you can find a school that might be willing to work and go to bat for you. Maybe....

5. Welcome to the real world. It is filled with illogic and mind bending stupidity. Plus worst of all it is not, FAIR. Stop expecting logic and fairness. Bureaucracies all around the world a filled with petty and lazy people. Add in crazy requirements and regulations, it is amazing anything gets done. You can try fighting the system head on OR you try working with the system. Get researching and maybe you can find that
loophole or alternative.

6. Like number 1. Where the *&!@ have you been? You have taught in Korea for over 10 years and now you join eslcafe! Ok, maybe you lost your last login. Still, after 10 years you would gather a clue about how life in Korea works. In the time have you also not been paying attention to the changes in industry. The CRC has been an issue for about 5 years. Maybe, you had a reason you did not need to worry, then. BUT! A worry should have been planted in your head back then of what might happen in the future. You snooze your loose. PAY ATTENTION!

Here are some older threads to check out... (sorry the list is a bit rough)

Help, I am a Criminal and Want to Teach List

"Arrest" on BG check from driving w/ suspended lic - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=160547
13 years ago, minor in possession of alcohol. Can I get E2 - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=200594
20+ Year Old Petty Theft Will Disqualify You For E2 Visa? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=189181
3rd Degree Misdemeanor DUI Charge, Possibility To Teach? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=200129
A blemished Criminal Background Check - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2681668
A question about the Criminal Records Check - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=165767
Another "Criminal Records Check" helpful hint.... - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=197986
Anybody who DOESN'T have a clean criminal background check? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2296454
Application asking if I've been Charged...Convicted or Not - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2778358
Arrest on my record. How screwed am I? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2713573
Arrest Record and Work? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=190695
Arrest record, but charges dropped or dismissed - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=221174
Arrested but not charged for possession: can I get an E2? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=177980
Arrested for pot 10 years ago - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=192445
Arrested for theft as a minor. - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=191586
Awaiting Visa Issuance Number: Any Advice will help - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=188636
Background check question - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=195679
british criminal check. basic disclosure or Subject access - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=148793
Can I get a teaching job/visa with a minor arrest? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=221380
Can I get a visa if my CBC says DUI from 8 years ago? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2073015
Can my friend come to teach in Korea with a DUI? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=167955
Can you teach if you have a prior misdemeanor? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=190764
CBC Arrest Record - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=209732
CBC question - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2801785
CBC with misdemeanors... - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=205891
Chance of teaching with criminal background from college... - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2342008
Concerning criminal record - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=186367
CRC not accepted by immigration - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=1727267
Criminal background check OWI out of home state shady? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=161917
Criminal Background Check: Expunged Conviction a Problem? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=115609
Criminal check- DUI? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=128109
Criminal Check/DWI/Recruiter/School - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=1944024
Criminal Record Check- F-4 visa - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=175218
Criminal Record! - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2244020
criminal records and the korean job hunt - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=201282
Criminal Records Checks = Ridiculous - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=111178
Current visa laws regarding arrest record - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=211943
Denied an E-2 Visa Whilst Working in a Hagwon - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=1873692
Denied visa due to arrest on CBC - can I reapply?? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2785431
Denied visa for DUI - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=113898
Denied VISA, where to go now? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=1838793
Denied Work Visa, is it worth trying again? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=206983
Dismissal on CBC - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=161741
Do you have a criminal record? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=108237
Misdemeanor Conviction, Annulments, and FBI - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=216172
Does an ARREST (not convicted) show up on an FBI CBC? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=195278
Does the Korean Immigration only want a clean C. background? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=212249
Drug Arrests / Acceptance Rate - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2632982
DUI and getting a visa for Korea - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea//viewtopic.php?t=21298
DUI blemishes on your record - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2762041
DUI check - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2004182
DWI on FBI report--will it keep me out of Korea - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=206130
E2 Visa & Criminal Record Q - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=194289
E2 Visa for Public Disturbance with charges dropped? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2198034
E-2 Visa with Criminal Records Check from Random State? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=121950
EPIK Rejection.. Now What? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=206475
FBI Check - Misdemeanor - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=213915
FBI Check (Wrongful Arrest with charges dismissed) - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=206535
FBI check question - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=196532
FBI Check: What they're looking for - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=201068
FBI Check-DUI-E2 Visa - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=213603
Formal request to stop helping criminals - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=196941
Getting a job with a misdemeanor - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=178099
Getting an E-2 with an expunged DUI on record - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=221646
Getting your record expunged (FBI CHECK)? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=200155
Help! Background check question ... - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=191899
He's a criminal - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=87837
Hope for those with arrests worried about the FBI check! - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2760204
Hopes dashed on my first post! - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=181775
i have a criminal record - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=1476916
I have a DUI, and am wondering if I can receive a work visa - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=214695
I'm not a criminal but...... - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=132978
Is it possible to teach in any country with a DUI? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=1980330
Issues with having a DUI - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=189803
I've been arrested as a kid, is this a problem for visa? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2140994
MIP Issue and E-2 visa - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=180251
Misdeameaner = No Visa ?? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=137269
Misdemeanor in US- Effect FBI bckgrnd check/empl. in S.K.? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2749415
New Criminal Background Check Rules - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=190083
Obtaining an E-2 - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=1907778
Old arrest on CRC - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=164268
Please Help: Epik does not want to accept DUI offence. - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=146618
Possible to teach in Korea/Japan with criminal record? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=196922
Potential Visa Problem? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=211144
Powers of the Ministry of Education~~ Questions - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=221030
Public Intoxication 1990 - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=210161
Question about what will show up on FBI Background check - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=202219
Reflections on the FBI background check - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=201501
Reflections on the FBI background check *** PART II *** - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=212899
Rejected by new visa rules - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=109142
State/Federal US criminal background check - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=115730
Teaching in Korea with a criminal background - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=194990
This is How You Know If You Have Criminal Record! - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=201529
Two D.U.I's on my CBR, am I screwed? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=213206
UK criminal check arrest but no further action data (drinkdr - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=1914551
unclean fbi check - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2738470
US FBI Background check blemishes - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=209823
Visa criteria - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=220780
visa denied. can he still visit korea? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=165611
Visa Rejection Help - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=192235
Visa request - FBI CRC - Misdemeanor that is over 20 years o - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=219862
What criminal charges can get your e2 visa denied? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=1537216
What criminal ofenses will bar my E-2 Visa app? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=208663
What exactly does a "clean background check" mean? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=199787
Who got a visa with an arrest record? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=201590
Wisconsin DUI? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=206658
Would minor drug offense at 18 y.o. ruin visa? - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=165309
Yet another FBI background question (arrested as a minor) - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2784631
Yet another question about CBCs - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=192932
Yet ANOTHER question about CBCs. - http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=192933
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great job, there, Skippy, of tarring everyone who merely objects to what is an unfair--which you agree is unfair--policy as criminals, whiners, clueless. Odd thing, though, is that there are quite a few more people than those whom you cited who have gone to Korea, taught in Korea, lived in Korea for years, and have absolutely no criminal background at all. But keep pretending that we're all whining criminals and/or have somehow avoided the checks if that's what it takes to get you through the day.

By the way, I don't have to worry at all about the check because I don't happen to have a criminal offense in my background. Why does it surprise you that someone with a clean background can object to an unfair policy?

If Korea wants to protect children, as they should, then they need to have a fair, comprehensive CBC policy instead of the asinine one they have now.
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Skippy



Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralCali wrote:
Great job, there, Skippy, of tarring everyone who merely objects to what is an unfair--which you agree is unfair--policy as criminals, whiners, clueless. Odd thing, though, is that there are quite a few more people than those whom you cited who have gone to Korea, taught in Korea, lived in Korea for years, and have absolutely no criminal background at all. But keep pretending that we're all whining criminals and/or have somehow avoided the checks if that's what it takes to get you through the day.


True the title of the list is a bit harsh, but I added it for humor. You know why I named it like that? It is because every couple of weeks, somebody like the OP comes along and wants an free pass. Yes some of the stories are distressing and unfair. You know what is really unfair all the people that did play by rules, should step aside for those that DID NOT. Sorry to the OP, but what makes him better then me.

Even more galling is many of those people in the threads have been warned things like this was coming. The gyopos that have laughed for years as they thought their Korean-ness protected them. From those people who thought they could continue to pull the eyes over immigration with a CRC from a state they did not live in. Sorry this little ant is sure a heck not going to be feeling sorry for those grasshoppers who had other things to do and who are freezing. Me I put in the work and worry for myself.

CentralCali wrote:
By the way, I don't have to worry at all about the check because I don't happen to have a criminal offense in my background. Why does it surprise you that someone with a clean background can object to an unfair policy?


Good for you on being an honest and good person. It does not surprise me that someone with a clean background is outraged. Complain away! I complain all the time. Object to the unfairness of it all. I might agree with you, I might not. I agree the checks are not completely fair. Welcome to life! You can sit down on the ground and cry and pound your fists and legs. Crying that it is not fair. Or you can do something about it. From fighting the system to finding a away around the problem or learning to live with it.

I objected to it, but after so long, I have just learned that that grudge/time spent is not worth it. I have other windmills in which I can tilt at.

Sorry the stereotypes and that will always be around in one form or another. You know what is ironic? There is some truth to it. No pretending need. I know so many people here who are criminals (technically). Hearing about some foreigners drug preferences and history every time I go out for a night at the bar, gets tedious. (How the heck did it become a topic of discussion to tell people you barely know of your crimes) Has really had given me the perspective that many of the foreigners here are criminals. There might actually be some truth to the stereotypes. This is including long timers here.

The foreigner image does need to change. Both ways. Koreans need to be hit with the clue bat about their views at times. The media needs to be taken out to the carpet on cruddy reporting. Yet foreigners need to work on improving the image themselves.

A gaggle of orphans helped, solid loving marriages to citizens, and children educated is going to be ruined by one idiot who decides to get drunk and commit a crime. Or that little group that decides that their need for a toke outweighs how it will effect everyone. Ask the Chinese here about that. All it took is a crazy guy to rape and murder a girl to set back their image a couple of years. Ask the US military, too. Every year it is either some private who gets too handsy with a local or commits and assault. Add in North Korean refugees. All have bad image because of a few idiots.

So what are you doing to help the image of foreigners in Korea? Do you call out foreigners on bad behavior. Do you contribute time or money to your community. The worse part is you have to be ten times better then the Koreans.

CentralCali wrote:
If Korea wants to protect children, as they should, then they need to have a fair, comprehensive CBC policy instead of the asinine one they have now.


Which they are, albeit slowly and haphazardly at times. That is the way it goes around the world with all governments. It only took Korea 5 years to catch on to the F-series visa loophole. That one always got my shorts in a twist. I still get angry over that bus ride from Seoul a few years ago to home. Two loud gyopos talking about pot and drugs loudly and in public. I found it unfair that I was the bad one being a foreigner, yet those stoners where OK since they where the same tribe as most of the other bus riders.

God! I hate that word, FAIR. What the heck does fair mean. To me fair means everyone has to submit one. But to someone else it might mean just teachers and only felonies. Comprehensive, also means what?. To me a comprehensive health check would mean random drug testing every couple of months. To others it might me basically the person is not in a coma or going to die soon. You can wish for it as much as you want, it will never exist. Me I hope for improvements.

Hope away for a fair and comprehensive check. Till that day when it comes down the rainbow on the back of the unicorn, me I will will continue to operate in the real world of idiots, unfairness, and illogic. It is a constant war. Yes sometimes, I will sit down and whine, but then I get back up and fight away.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Which they are, albeit slowly and haphazardly at times. That is the way it goes around the world with all governments. It only took Korea 5 years to catch on to the F-series visa loophole. That one always got my shorts in a twist. I still get angry over that bus ride from Seoul a few years ago to home. Two loud gyopos talking about pot and drugs loudly and in public. I found it unfair that I was the bad one being a foreigner, yet those stoners where OK since they where the same tribe as most of the other bus riders.

God! I hate that word, FAIR. What the heck does fair mean. To me fair means everyone has to submit one. But to someone else it might mean just teachers and only felonies. Comprehensive, also means what?. To me a comprehensive health check would mean random drug testing every couple of months. To others it might me basically the person is not in a coma or going to die soon. You can wish for it as much as you want, it will never exist. Me I hope for improvements.

Hope away for a fair and comprehensive check. Till that day when it comes down the rainbow on the back of the unicorn, me I will will continue to operate in the real world of idiots, unfairness, and illogic. It is a constant war. Yes sometimes, I will sit down and whine, but then I get back up and fight away.


Great post there (or rather part of a post) Skippy. A lot of good ole common sense there and I agree with how you approach things, kind of mirrors how I tend to look at things.
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Wildbore



Joined: 17 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ttompatz wrote:
Don't like it... deal with your own government, whose systems are broken, and who have criminalized just about 25% of their own population.

.


Maybe look at the facts... crime in USA is on a long-term downtrend, Korea is rising.

Deal with what? I think most of us would rather live in a country where crime is taken seriously (USA, Canada, EU, etc.), unlike Korea where rape, spousal abuse, white collar crimes, and drunken violence mostly go unpunished. Korea is one of the few developed countries that alcohol intoxication can still be used as a defense in court. In addition, you can sometimes avoid serious charges or a fair sentence by "paying off the victim."

Welcome to the broken system, the Korean justice system.
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