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SHOCKING Korean Teacher - beating female elementary student
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fustiancorduroy



Joined: 12 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kabrams wrote:
I hope you get fired.

And every time you try to get a new teaching job, recruiters refuse to hire you because they somehow know you're an awful teacher who resorts to hitting students because you're too intellectually incompetent to become better at your job.

It enrages me to think those who are stronger (or with more power) believe it is right to dominate and punish with physical violence.

Such weakness.


I have been teaching for several years. I have taught at the best foreign language high school in Korea. I now work teaching test-prep in Daechi-dong to some of the best students in Korea. I am one of the most popular teachers among the students, parents, and staff. When I initially started teaching, I was anti-corporal punishment. Now that I've been doing teaching for a few years, I can see how a few decisive hits on an utterly uncontrollable student can immediately improve their behavior.

Having said that, I, personally, have never hit any of my students. So far, I have not had the need to. However, if you read my previous post, you will see that my director has hit some of our middle school students for me. Seeing how well her corporal punishment worked, I contend that there is nothing wrong with hitting students. So my questions for you are:

1) Exactly why is it wrong to hit students if you do not cause long-term physical damage? Do you think they will be emotionally scarred?

2) How would you deal with a student who refuses to work, who is rude to you, who defies your authority constantly when talking to that student, giving time outs, and taking away other privileges does not work? What is your panacea for this incorrigible student?

3) Do you mock and talk down to your students when you disagree with them? What about your coworkers? You have a lot of nerve calling me an "awful teacher" and "intellectually incompetent" when you know almost nothing about me.

Please do share your wisdom.
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John Stamos jr.



Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Location: Namsan

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, look, here's a kid who knows nothing about the world and is slightly emotionally disturbed due to reasons I don't know or care to know about... but now he's annoying me and disturbing my class... so, I'm just going to hit him with this stick.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Corporal Punishment has nothing to do with the videos we see every year. Those videos are all about anger and abuse - if you were half the teacher you claim to be, that'd be an easy thing to see.
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Kirkasu



Joined: 07 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my education classes in college, I was always taught that consequences should be immediate, directly relevant to the offense, and void of emotional context. I've found these three guidelines to be immensely effective in my classrooms over the course of seven years of teaching (five years in US high schools).

How is hitting justifiable?

It's immediate, but that's the easiest one to follow.

Is it relevant to the offense? How would hitting be a justifiable reaction to 99.999% of the things that happen in a classroom. Short of a student physically assaulting me, why should I ever hit a student?

Is it void of emotion? Children of any age need to clearly see that they are being punished because the offense itself disrupts the educational environment, not because it makes the teacher angry. The urge to strike someone, in my experience, directly comes from anger.

I don't buy corporal punishment as the best discipline/management tool in any situation. Of course it can have results, but it doesn't mean there aren't better ways. And, as a teacher, you should have a management system in place that prevents students from ever pushing you to the point that you would consider hitting him/her.

Besides, I think most of us accept the notion that if someone puts a hand on you, you should return the favor. What happens when you smack a student with a stick and that student smacks you across the face? Do teachers get to just bully students because of their title? Doesn't sound like a healthy learning environment to me.
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fustiancorduroy



Joined: 12 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
Corporal Punishment has nothing to do with the videos we see every year. Those videos are all about anger and abuse - if you were half the teacher you claim to be, that'd be an easy thing to see.


I agree. A lot of the teachers in these videos are hitting out of anger, which is improper. Corporal punishment should be a moderated, calculated action. It should not be done violently. Did the teacher in the video act appropriately? Maybe not entirely, but we don't know the full situation of the circumstances. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and hitting students allows the teacher to immediately assert control of a situation.
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fustiancorduroy



Joined: 12 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kirkasu wrote:
In my education classes in college, I was always taught that consequences should be immediate, directly relevant to the offense, and void of emotional context. I've found these three guidelines to be immensely effective in my classrooms over the course of seven years of teaching (five years in US high schools).

How is hitting justifiable?

It's immediate, but that's the easiest one to follow.

Is it relevant to the offense? How would hitting be a justifiable reaction to 99.999% of the things that happen in a classroom. Short of a student physically assaulting me, why should I ever hit a student?

Is it void of emotion? Children of any age need to clearly see that they are being punished because the offense itself disrupts the educational environment, not because it makes the teacher angry. The urge to strike someone, in my experience, directly comes from anger.

I don't buy corporal punishment as the best discipline/management tool in any situation. Of course it can have results, but it doesn't mean there aren't better ways. And, as a teacher, you should have a management system in place that prevents students from ever pushing you to the point that you would consider hitting him/her.

Besides, I think most of us accept the notion that if someone puts a hand on you, you should return the favor. What happens when you smack a student with a stick and that student smacks you across the face? Do teachers get to just bully students because of their title? Doesn't sound like a healthy learning environment to me.


Corporal punishment is far from the ideal solution. Almost any alternative would be better. You can make systems that prevent students from getting out of hand to the degree such that corporal punishment may be necessary, but there will always be those one or two students who simply refuse to follow any other instruction.

In my case, I teach at a test-prep hagwon. Many of the high level students are there only for the winter or summer breaks, each about 4 weeks long. Nearly all of them are willing to cooperate and do their work within the established class guidelines. But out of the 200 or so students I teach during each intensive, there are usually one or two who just won't listen. Period. Meanwhile, I have to make sure that ALL these students get perfect scores on their tests. We have just four weeks to prepare, so I don't have time to waste punishing students during class. We have to work as much as possible. Again, I haven't hit any of my students, but I wouldn't blame other teachers for hitting them in a manner that is appropriate to punish the infraction and devoid of anger. Doing this is difficult, but it can be done.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fustiancorduroy wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
Corporal Punishment has nothing to do with the videos we see every year. Those videos are all about anger and abuse - if you were half the teacher you claim to be, that'd be an easy thing to see.


I agree. A lot of the teachers in these videos are hitting out of anger, which is improper. Corporal punishment should be a moderated, calculated action. It should not be done violently.


Ok, we agree on the first point.
Quote:
Did the teacher in the video act appropriately? Maybe not entirely, but we don't know the full situation of the circumstances.


You're right. Maybe she pulled a gun on the class and he tried to subdue her! That might explain your following statement.

Quote:
Desperate times call for desperate measures, and hitting students allows the teacher to immediately assert control of a situation.


No THIS is where you lose me. A 11 year old give giving lip is 'desperate times' - and you were bragging earlier about your teaching experience? Seriously? How in holy frak is that 'desperate times'???

And you just made the leap from your statement on Corporate Punishment... to it now being a tool for asserting control - THAT is seriously messed up.
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Seoulman69



Joined: 14 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
No THIS is where you lose me. A 11 year old give giving lip is 'desperate times' - and you were bragging earlier about your teaching experience? Seriously? How in holy frak is that 'desperate times'???


I thought that the girl tried to hit the teacher a couple of times in the video. You can see her hand go up to his face before he slaps her. It's a bit blurry though so it's hard to see exactly what is going on.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eh, this video starts too late to be decisive. It looks like he lost control then tried to restrain himself. My take is he has an unruly class and this girl is probably the ringleader. A student was sitting there with his cellphone and they were doing everything possible to make him snap. As an old timer that doesn't have training in anything other than corporal punishment he probably lost it and slapped her a few times. I guess he will be fired and his family will go hungry...or maybe not. Sorry, but I feel bad for the old guy in this situation. I've seen unruly violent teachers in Korea and their classes never looked like this.

A lot of NET's come here and preach vehemently against corporal punishment, but they are more than happy to hide behind their KT that enforces discipline with a switch. Then they go on and on about how they have never resorted to violence in their classroom. I'm sure their KT loves hearing all about how they would never lay a hand on a student. Whether you like it or not, whether it is legal or not, most of the discipline in the classroom comes from the threat of violence in some way, shape, or form. You can pretend that isn't the case and that your hands are clean, but it's there and it helps you get your job done on a daily basis.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seoulman69 wrote:
Quote:
No THIS is where you lose me. A 11 year old give giving lip is 'desperate times' - and you were bragging earlier about your teaching experience? Seriously? How in holy frak is that 'desperate times'???


I thought that the girl tried to hit the teacher a couple of times in the video. You can see her hand go up to his face before he slaps her. It's a bit blurry though so it's hard to see exactly what is going on.


Hard to see, but the first physical interaction we see is him shoving her to the bottom of the screen.
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Malislamusrex



Joined: 01 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't see if he hits her in the face or used that paper in his hand to move her.
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MoneyMike



Joined: 03 Dec 2008

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't really tell much from the video. Seemed like he lost it, which isn't good at all. Someone who's been teaching for any length of time should have a better control over themselves. That said, I'm not opposed to corporal punishment, but it should be meted out without emotion.

My 2 cents: I think corporal punishment is effective and should be used as a punishment of last resort. I've never hit a student in school, and to be honest I wouldn't really want to even if it was allowed. But the poster above who said that we benefit from the teacher who wields the switch was totally correct.

In my experience some students simply won't behave in class. I'm talking a very small amount, maybe 1 or 2%. I don't see an alternative to corporal punishment in cases like these. What are you gonna do, have a calm and reasoned discussion with a 12 year old that convinces him to change his ways? Go all Freedom Writers and convince him that you understand and sympathize with his plight? Good luck with that.

An important part of being a teacher is maintaining control of your classes. If one student is constantly rude and won't listen or follow any directions, every second he behaves like this erodes your control over the entire class. When the other students see one student getting away with it, they lose a little respect.

I'm curious for those who don't support corporal punishment in school, do you think parents should be allowed to spank their children? I'm just curious if you oppose corporal punishment in only an academic setting, or everywhere in society?
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MoneyMike



Joined: 03 Dec 2008

PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They acknowledge that point about control in the classroom in the military as well. Officers (I've heard) are taught to never give a command that you know won't be followed, as it erodes control. While the academic environment obviously isn't at all similar to the army, I think that idea applies to both.
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newb



Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoneyMike wrote:
They acknowledge that point about control in the classroom in the military as well. Officers (I've heard) are taught to never give a command that you know won't be followed, as it erodes control. While the academic environment obviously isn't at all similar to the army, I think that idea applies to both.


Officers in the military are taught to give an order that they think is the best option for the situation and don't rescind the order even if it may result in own death and casualty. For enlisted men, punishment for refusing/not following orders is pretty severe. In peace time, some jail time and DDischarge. In war time, especially in combat, officers have the authority to shoot them dead.
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

newb wrote:
In war time, especially in combat, officers have the authority to shoot them dead.

And some officers' sole job was to shoot soldiers in the back of the head if they were too scared to go into battle on the front lines. Now that has got to be the worst job in the world.
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