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SHOCKING Korean Teacher - beating female elementary student
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3DR



Joined: 24 May 2009

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People against spanking are PC "be nice and everything will be ok" people.
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3DR



Joined: 24 May 2009

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I agree it should be a last resort, but look at kids in USA and Korea. Once physical punishment is taken out, kids progressively get worse in terms of their behavior.
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3DR wrote:
People against spanking are PC "be nice and everything will be ok" people.


That's utter rubbish. Some of us against corporal punishment are not PC at all and your assertion that those against CP believe that the lack of walloping a kid around will make everyting okay is simply untrue. What prohibiting corporal punishment will do, though, is remove one type of child abuse from the schools.
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3DR wrote:
And I agree it should be a last resort, but look at kids in USA and Korea. Once physical punishment is taken out, kids progressively get worse in terms of their behavior.


More rubbish from you. I'll leave it to you to provide some actual evidence--not just your impression--that it's the lack of corporal punishment in the US schools that's causing the students to "progressively get worse in terms of their behavior." Taht should be fun to watch you do that since, as already noted in this very thread, there are a fair number of schools in the US that actually employ corporal punishment.

There's a bit of a twist in South Korea, though, with the banning of corporal punishment. The teachers have no other tools, apparently. The schools are averse to suspend or expel students. Having no disciplinary measures at all is a guarantee for disaster.
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3DR



Joined: 24 May 2009

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralCali wrote:
3DR wrote:
And I agree it should be a last resort, but look at kids in USA and Korea. Once physical punishment is taken out, kids progressively get worse in terms of their behavior.


More rubbish from you. I'll leave it to you to provide some actual evidence--not just your impression--that it's the lack of corporal punishment in the US schools that's causing the students to "progressively get worse in terms of their behavior." Taht should be fun to watch you do that since, as already noted in this very thread, there are a fair number of schools in the US that actually employ corporal punishment.

There's a bit of a twist in South Korea, though, with the banning of corporal punishment. The teachers have no other tools, apparently. The schools are averse to suspend or expel students. Having no disciplinary measures at all is a guarantee for disaster.


You're right. When a kid cusses someone out or acts horribly, a 15 minute timeout sure teaches them a lesson.
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Adam Carolla



Joined: 26 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3DR wrote:
People against spanking are PC "be nice and everything will be ok" people.


No, we're against "This kid is giving me problems and rather than think out the issue I'll just start punching" people.
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Adam Carolla



Joined: 26 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3DR wrote:
And I agree it should be a last resort, but look at kids in USA and Korea. Once physical punishment is taken out, kids progressively get worse in terms of their behavior.


Stats or get the kitten out! (Kitten=the curse word of your choice)
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3DR



Joined: 24 May 2009

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam Carolla wrote:
3DR wrote:
People against spanking are PC "be nice and everything will be ok" people.


No, we're against "This kid is giving me problems and rather than think out the issue I'll just start punching" people.


Didn't say punching was good. Nothing wrong with a good spanking on the bottom after cussing out your parents though.

I talked back disrespectfully to my mom once. There was a reason I didn't do it again.
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3DR



Joined: 24 May 2009

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam Carolla wrote:
3DR wrote:
And I agree it should be a last resort, but look at kids in USA and Korea. Once physical punishment is taken out, kids progressively get worse in terms of their behavior.


Stats or get the kitten out! (Kitten=the curse word of your choice)


http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/apr/04/corporal-punishment-student-behaviour-worse

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1499978/Behaviour-getting-worse-say-parents.html

Now keep in mind, I think some methods are extreme. But if you just take it away without an alternative, then it leads to problems.
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3DR



Joined: 24 May 2009

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm all for protecting kids and whatnot, but this coddling of children to their every desire today is just absurd.

PC is no good.
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who's being "PC"? Just because you say those who disagree with you are PC, does not, in fact, make that so.
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3DR



Joined: 24 May 2009

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralCali wrote:
Who's being "PC"? Just because you say those who disagree with you are PC, does not, in fact, make that so.


I could care less if you agreed with me or not...it's still PC behavior as far as I'm concerned.

I've told you several times the difference between walloping like in the video, and spanking as a punishment.

I've also provided evidence (and there' tons more if you just use Google). I don't know what more I can do for you. Don't change the subject because you cannot come up with a rebuttal.

Still...PC.
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3DR wrote:
CentralCali wrote:
Who's being "PC"? Just because you say those who disagree with you are PC, does not, in fact, make that so.


I could care less if you agreed with me or not...it's still PC behavior as far as I'm concerned.


Good, because if I were to agree with you, I'd be basically a lazy researcher.

Quote:
I've told you several times the difference between walloping like in the video, and spanking as a punishment.


Look, there's simply no excuse to strike a child. There are effective methods, used around the world, to discipline the child and those methods do not include striking the child. Yes, the punishment inflicted in the video in this thread is quite abusive. The thing you seem to fail to understand is that striking the child is abuse, regardless of the rage or lack thereof involved with the person inflicting the abuse.

Quote:
I've also provided evidence (and there' tons more if you just use Google). I don't know what more I can do for you. Don't change the subject because you cannot come up with a rebuttal.


Oh, get off it. You said "look at the kids in the US." I asked for proof of your assertion. You then trot out something regarding kids in the UK. Last I heard, the UK is not the US. But, just for fun, perhaps you should look at your own link before spouting. It's quite clearly stated that the problem with disciplining students in the UK is simply that the schools do not use any effective means. It's a cop-out to consider corporal punishment the only way to manage a classroom or even as a cure-all for the current state of affairs in the UK. Effective means include, as mentioned upthread, removing the child from the classroom, removing the child from that particular school, among other methods.

Quote:
Still...PC.


Right. As far as you're concerned. Big whoop. Being anti-child abuse is not political correctness. It's called being a decent human being.

Oh, and a parent's impression or a teacher's impression of what's happening mean exactly nothing. Facts mean something. You can dismiss this link if you wish because of its obvious agenda; however, the fact remains that they cite legitimate studies which show that things are getting better in the US schools which do not use corporal punishment.

More links for you:

http://mhbenton.wordpress.com/2010/03/31/corporal-punishment-does-it-add-value-to-education/

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/mde/corporal_punishment_alternatives_193705_7.pdf

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/story/2012-06-28/spanking-mental-problems/55964610/1

http://www.phoenixchildrens.com/PDFs/principles_and_practices-of_effective_discipline.pdf
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Mr. BlackCat



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3DR wrote:
And I agree it should be a last resort, but look at kids in USA and Korea. Once physical punishment is taken out, kids progressively get worse in terms of their behavior.


I'm not sure exactly what you mean by 'behaviour', but the stats say that after a brief spike in the late 80s/early 90s (mostly due to the introduction of crack on the streets), youth crime has been decreasing steadily in most Western countries, and depending on exactly where, are back to their 60s era levels.

Some might say that's when everything started going to hell with kids due to more socially liberal philosophies being introduced, but we must also consider rapid population growth, urbanization and the widening of income gaps in that time span as well.

I think the media has done a fine job of convincing everyone that crime, especially youth crime, is out of control when in fact it's declining in general. It's also part of getting older, thinking the kids these days are not as wonderful as you and your friends. It's also important to note that corporal punishment in school is still in over a dozen states in the US.

Having said that, I do agree Korea is currently suffering from a discipline vacuum since corporal punishment was taken off the table. Add to that a culture of deflecting blame and they get the mess they have now. I guess they might just have to go through their growing pains, just hope it isn't too late before they come to their senses.
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Mr. BlackCat



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="3DR"]
Adam Carolla wrote:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1499978/Behaviour-getting-worse-say-parents.html


Laughing @ that article. What's on the next page, "Parents deem today's music 'crap' and 'noisy'". Survey any parent at any point in human history and they would have said exactly the same thing. Absolute rubbish.

In my experience it's often those that are so steadfastly against corporal punishment (not saying the people here) that are the first ones to load their kids up on meds. Isn't that exactly what's happened in the last 30-40 years? We've removed the stick and replaced it with the pill. Which one ultimately better for the child?
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