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I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
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 Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:42 am Post subject: |
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| Francis-Pax wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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1998 was a very long time ago. Technology has changed substantially since then. Your personal experience is limited. Here in the Middle East, technology integrated in all learning. In the UAE, for example, using iPads in the language classroom is compulsory. So your generalisations are limited to the contexts you have experienced.
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IPads are compulsory in one of the places I work at now in Korea and the students' faces drop when they see you bring them into the class room. And please Francis can you drop the 'I've got more experience in more countries than you facade' (you haven't) and the attitude that you're somehow giving your valuable time up to slum it with people who are less sophisticated than you. It's all a bit childish. |
I am not saying that I have more experience in different countries than you. Maybe you just feel insecure. I am only talking about my experiences in different contexts. Our experience with iPads are not the same as yours. We are doing very innovative things with iPads and project based learning where I am currently teaching. We have exactly the opposite experience. Maybe you just don't know how to teach with that type of technology. Or, it could be that it doesn't work in your particular context despite all of your knowledge and experience with the technology. This does not invalidate your experience. It just means that you need to be more careful about generalising your experiences to other contexts.
When I wrote that you experience is limited, I also implicitly state that my experiences are limited too. We are not God. We are just finite human beings that are limited to space and time. Your experiences are different from mine. The important point here is that we do not say that our experiences are the only way it is. We need to be flexible and realize that so much is relative to context.
When I write that you display an unsophisticated view, it does not mean that I am more sophisticated. It is also note a comparison between you and me. It is a comment on what you have written, not your person. I am sorry to say that your understanding of the relationship of theory and practice is elementary. You have made sweeping statements that are difficult to support and without evidence. You tend to generalize too much. You need to be humbler with your claims. |
Francis,
You're coming in way too hot here.
Telling people that they have an "unsophisticated" understanding of theory or that they have "limited" experience while at the same time singing praises of the UAE makes you seem pretentious and arrogant.
And even though you've posted several times that you "don't have much" time discuss the issues, you posted quite a bit here on this thread and others. This is like the 3rd person you've offended in as many days with your manner. In other words, drop the attitude and be a little more civil and less confrontational.
TEFL'ing in the Middle East isn't without its pitfalls and aggravations.
Last edited by I'm With You on Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| I'm With You wrote: |
Francis,
You're coming in way too hot here.
Telling people that they have an "unsophisticated" understanding of theory or that they have "limited" experience while at the same time singing praises of the UAE makes you seem pretentious and arrogant. And event though you have posted several times here that you "don't have much" time discuss the issues here, you posted quite a bit here on this thread. In other words, drop the attitude and be a little more civil and less confrontational.
TEFL'ing in the Middle East isn't without its pitfalls and aggravations. |
Do what my colleagues and I have done. Turn it into a drinking game. Every time he says something arrogant, do a shot  |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
diver,
If you had an MA worth the paper it's printed on, you'd know you shouldn't be blindly quoting Krashen, particularly on his input hypothesis. i+1...cute concept, but over simplistic since language acquisition isn't a linear process. It also ignores that students have control over the intake. Looks good on paper, that's all. |
I'm sorry...which Krashen quote has got you all upset? |
Here's a reminder:
"CELTA holders may not be able to pontificate at length about Vygotsky, Piaget or Krashen - but they don't have to. It's not their job. Their job is to teach. " |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| 12ax7 wrote: |
| diver wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
diver,
If you had an MA worth the paper it's printed on, you'd know you shouldn't be blindly quoting Krashen, particularly on his input hypothesis. i+1...cute concept, but over simplistic since language acquisition isn't a linear process. It also ignores that students have control over the intake. Looks good on paper, that's all. |
I'm sorry...which Krashen quote has got you all upset? |
Here's a reminder:
"CELTA holders may not be able to pontificate at length about Vygotsky, Piaget or Krashen - but they don't have to. It's not their job. Their job is to teach. " |
You accused me of blindly quoting Krashen. I didn't. I was pointing out the difference between what CELTA prepares one to do, vs. what an MA prepares one to do. If you had an MA worth the paper it's printed on, you'd know what "quote" means.
I am wondering why you ignored all the referenced sources that show the practicum is a vital component in teacher training and instead created a straw man argument? |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
| diver wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
diver,
If you had an MA worth the paper it's printed on, you'd know you shouldn't be blindly quoting Krashen, particularly on his input hypothesis. i+1...cute concept, but over simplistic since language acquisition isn't a linear process. It also ignores that students have control over the intake. Looks good on paper, that's all. |
I'm sorry...which Krashen quote has got you all upset? |
Here's a reminder:
"CELTA holders may not be able to pontificate at length about Vygotsky, Piaget or Krashen - but they don't have to. It's not their job. Their job is to teach. " |
You accused me of blindly quoting Krashen. I didn't. I was pointing out the difference between what CELTA prepares one to do, vs. what an MA prepares one to do. If you had an MA worth the paper it's printed on, you'd know what "quote" means.
I am wondering why you ignored all the referenced sources that show the practicum is a vital component in teacher training and instead created a straw man argument? |
You're purposely missing the point...and your referenced sources...As previously explained by another commenter, that's not how one makes an argument.
You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Doing an MA in ESL/EFL involves a considerable amount of time doing classroom research, far more than the 6 hours or so of practicum that you did while getting your CELTA.
Last edited by 12ax7 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| 12ax7 wrote: |
| diver wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
| diver wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
diver,
If you had an MA worth the paper it's printed on, you'd know you shouldn't be blindly quoting Krashen, particularly on his input hypothesis. i+1...cute concept, but over simplistic since language acquisition isn't a linear process. It also ignores that students have control over the intake. Looks good on paper, that's all. |
I'm sorry...which Krashen quote has got you all upset? |
Here's a reminder:
"CELTA holders may not be able to pontificate at length about Vygotsky, Piaget or Krashen - but they don't have to. It's not their job. Their job is to teach. " |
You accused me of blindly quoting Krashen. I didn't. I was pointing out the difference between what CELTA prepares one to do, vs. what an MA prepares one to do. If you had an MA worth the paper it's printed on, you'd know what "quote" means.
I am wondering why you ignored all the referenced sources that show the practicum is a vital component in teacher training and instead created a straw man argument? |
You're purposely missing the point. |
No, I'm pretty sure that's not what's happening here. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
| diver wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
| diver wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
diver,
If you had an MA worth the paper it's printed on, you'd know you shouldn't be blindly quoting Krashen, particularly on his input hypothesis. i+1...cute concept, but over simplistic since language acquisition isn't a linear process. It also ignores that students have control over the intake. Looks good on paper, that's all. |
I'm sorry...which Krashen quote has got you all upset? |
Here's a reminder:
"CELTA holders may not be able to pontificate at length about Vygotsky, Piaget or Krashen - but they don't have to. It's not their job. Their job is to teach. " |
You accused me of blindly quoting Krashen. I didn't. I was pointing out the difference between what CELTA prepares one to do, vs. what an MA prepares one to do. If you had an MA worth the paper it's printed on, you'd know what "quote" means.
I am wondering why you ignored all the referenced sources that show the practicum is a vital component in teacher training and instead created a straw man argument? |
You're purposely missing the point. |
No, I'm pretty sure that's not what's happening here. |
Cognitive dissonance, eh? |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Doing an MA in ESL/EFL involves a considerable amount of time doing classroom research, far more than the 6 hours or so of practicum that you did while getting your CELTA.
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Come on, class room research (meaning I assume watching other people's lessons) is useful but not as useful as being assessed on your own teaching. Just ask anyone who's done a practical course which involves both. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Doing an MA in ESL/EFL involves a considerable amount of time doing classroom research, far more than the 6 hours or so of practicum that you did while getting your CELTA.
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Come on, class room research (meaning I assume watching other people's lessons) is useful but not as useful as being assessed on your own teaching. Just ask anyone who's done a practical course which involves both. |
Assumptions again. I've evaluated my own and others' lessons. A course? Courses, my friend. Courses held over a couple of years, not a couple of weeks...and that's without counting my 20 years of experience. So, you're wasting your time if you think that 6-10 hours of practicum is going to impress me. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Assumptions again. I've evaluated my own and others' lessons. A course? Courses, my friend. Courses held over a couple of years, not a couple of weeks. |
Well great if you're happy with your own professional development and you're doing the job you want to do. You come across to me like someone who wouldn't get much out of the CELTA anyway. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Assumptions again. I've evaluated my own and others' lessons. A course? Courses, my friend. Courses held over a couple of years, not a couple of weeks. |
Well great if you're happy with your own professional development and you're doing the job you want to do. You come across to me like someone who wouldn't get much out of the CELTA anyway. |
I'm qualified to be CELTA instructor.
https://www.teachers.cambridgeesol.org/ts/teachingqualifications/celta/becomingatrainer |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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That would depend on how they viewed the practical element of your course wouldn't it? And your teacher training experience. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
That would depend on how they viewed the practical element of your course wouldn't it? And your teacher training experience. |
Well, he did watch people teach....
In other news, I am qualified to drive a Formula One car. |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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You see, that's why Dave's is such a joke anymore. It's nothing more than a Celta love/attack those who tell the truth about it not being necessary/advertising fest. Seriously, soooo many people have gotten sick of this (and other issues) that they have just moved on.
Broken record... broken record... same old threads... same old attacks... same old responses... same old CELTA adv. threads.... same old people and their socks jumping on to bait/troll anyone who would disrespect their investment in an unneeded TESOL certification.
*yawn* |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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You see, that's why Dave's is such a joke anymore. It's nothing more than a Celta love/attack those who tell the truth about it not being necessary/advertising fest. Seriously, soooo many people have gotten sick of this (and other issues) that they have just moved on.
Broken record... broken record... same old threads... same old attacks... same old responses... same old CELTA adv. threads.... same old people and their socks jumping on to bait/troll anyone who would disrespect their investment in an unneeded TESOL certification.
*yawn* |
Ha ha classic. He pretends he's posting because he's bored with the same arguments coming up again and again and then he has another go at the CELTA. Here's a thought. If you really have got so sick of this topic, why don't you move on? Let it go. I don't have a PHD or an MA in Applied Linguistics but I don't keep coming on here telling people they're a waste of time. Why would I? What do you think is more rational human behaviour. People who have done a course wanting to tell others it's useful or people who have never done a course wanting to tell people it's useless? |
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