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Question for the vets...

 
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trueblue



Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:09 pm    Post subject: Question for the vets... Reply with quote

If your boss started to ask you to check and revise the work of her daughter (essays/research papers) who attends an international school (not at your place of employment), would you do it?

Granted, there could be positive and negative factors involved in doing this... I am just curious to read the opinion of others,who have been asked to do such work, outside your scope of employment.

Thank you.
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basic69isokay



Joined: 28 Sep 2014
Location: korea

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your job is good and he's done favors for you, then yes.
If its just a gig and he's kind of a dick, then no.
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ippy



Joined: 25 Aug 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would. It all tots up. Ive routinely had people tell me i have to be firm, i have to stand up for myself, i have to draw a line in the sand.

Ive defiantly remained flexible, accommodating, and generous with my time and it always comes back to me. Always. Always. Always. Always. I cant stress this enough, because despite the constant arguing from people that im just going to be treat like a doormat, it still always comes back around at the right moments.

You pick your own battles though. I choose to fight them only when its necessary and just go with the flow a bit on the rest. As far as im concerned, the contract is a guideline purely for arbitration. So stuff inside/outside the scope of your work is... nebulous. Work is what im asked to do during my work hours (within obvious reason)... until the contract is pulled on me.

Once the contract is in play (and since ive built up a reputation for flexibility), my first move is always to gently nudge the contract back in the cupboard. But if it becomes apparent that its getting used on me.... since ive put more work into accommodating the business, it gives me the exact impetus to work to the contract. And this should end up in my favour. And because i didnt instigate working to contract, it means that i can now also pull it out in the future and on the same grounds that its to protect the business with face preserved for all.

So work outside the remits of the contract is contingent entirely on whether youre prone to treating your contract as the absolute letter of the law or not. I treat them just as a general agreement and of course the final arbiter in times of negotiation/conflict, but the less i see of my contract over the course of a year, the happier i am. Its just a job, id rather be happy than constantly at war over things i can do in ten minutes of my time whilst still on the clock anyway... and gives you some easy brownie points.

Yeah, youre not cashing in those for a while. But they all add up and they all serve to make you indispensable. Which means come renegotiation time (or just any time you need to make a stand about something actually important), youve more chance of succeeding in your demands without having to actually 'demand'.

Dont get me wrong though, im keeping count. And come any renegotiation or recontracting discussion, its going to mean pay increases, modifications, and/or an outright refusal (on good terms).

Above all else, staying flexible (purely from a self interest standpoint) keeps me sane and happy. Ive seen too many people snap and become intransigent over the most mindblowingly trivial issues to know you have to pick your battles a little more carefully and you have to let some of the shit slide. Then again, im a water sign so its in my nature to go around the problem Wink
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trueblue



Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that may have been on of the best forms of advice I have seen on Dave's. I can clearly see your view and how it can work.

To answer the previous poster....I have only been with the school, for 10 days.



Quote:
I would. It all tots up. Ive routinely had people tell me i have to be firm, i have to stand up for myself, i have to draw a line in the sand.

Ive defiantly remained flexible, accommodating, and generous with my time and it always comes back to me. Always. Always. Always. Always. I cant stress this enough, because despite the constant arguing from people that im just going to be treat like a doormat, it still always comes back around at the right moments.

You pick your own battles though. I choose to fight them only when its necessary and just go with the flow a bit on the rest. As far as im concerned, the contract is a guideline purely for arbitration. So stuff inside/outside the scope of your work is... nebulous. Work is what im asked to do during my work hours (within obvious reason)... until the contract is pulled on me.

Once the contract is in play (and since ive built up a reputation for flexibility), my first move is always to gently nudge the contract back in the cupboard. But if it becomes apparent that its getting used on me.... since ive put more work into accommodating the business, it gives me the exact impetus to work to the contract. And this should end up in my favour. And because i didnt instigate working to contract, it means that i can now also pull it out in the future and on the same grounds that its to protect the business with face preserved for all.

So work outside the remits of the contract is contingent entirely on whether youre prone to treating your contract as the absolute letter of the law or not. I treat them just as a general agreement and of course the final arbiter in times of negotiation/conflict, but the less i see of my contract over the course of a year, the happier i am. Its just a job, id rather be happy than constantly at war over things i can do in ten minutes of my time whilst still on the clock anyway... and gives you some easy brownie points.

Yeah, youre not cashing in those for a while. But they all add up and they all serve to make you indispensable. Which means come renegotiation time (or just any time you need to make a stand about something actually important), youve more chance of succeeding in your demands without having to actually 'demand'.

Dont get me wrong though, im keeping count. And come any renegotiation or recontracting discussion, its going to mean pay increases, modifications, and/or an outright refusal (on good terms).

Above all else, staying flexible (purely from a self interest standpoint) keeps me sane and happy. Ive seen too many people snap and become intransigent over the most mindblowingly trivial issues to know you have to pick your battles a little more carefully and you have to let some of the shit slide. Then again, im a water sign so its in my nature to go around the problem Wink
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schwa



Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: sokcho

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree completely with Ippy. It will show you in a good light, especially since you're new there. Being stingy about an occasional favor asked by your boss is a sure recipe for future cold dealings.

It probably wont, but dont let it turn into many hours of extra work. Be clear that you're happy to help up to a point but not if it starts to interfere with your regular duties.

Also, you might feel a bit squeamish about the daughter handing in your corrected writing as her own, but its quite normal for Korean students to have their work vetted (sometimes practically ghost-written) by others. Its their way.
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Nester Noodlemon



Joined: 16 Jan 2009

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The boss probably wants his/her boss to get into SNU. A little cheating, plagiarizing, or having someone else do the work is the norm. Cough, cough!
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trueblue



Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All right...thank you for the advice, folks.

I'll just go ahead and do what I can with it. It is five pages but she wants it condensed to 2....phuck it.

I think it will pay divideneds in the future, as hinted.
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Old Painless



Joined: 01 Jan 2014

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will, don't sweat it. Glad to hear you finally found a decent gig TB. I was following your story on the Thailand thread. Stick to it, and I'll see you on the beach!
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trueblue



Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines

PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank Ild Painless.

However, I will not see you in the beach.

There is more to the story.

First, I did not go to Thailand...just did not feel right and no matter how much money I spend on a ticket, if my instinct is telling me not to go through through with it, that is that.

Moving on...the day before I was supposed to fly out, a job landed in my lap, so I took it. Soon after, I found out it used to be Wonderland but now operates under a different name...BUT with the same program 😔

In regards to boss making a polite demand regarding her daughters work, I failed to mention that she actually wanted me to rewrite the paper and condense from 5 pages to two.

This is what I have a problem with. At first, I though no harm, no foul. But I did not provide that information earlier, sorry (and not even a hint of any extra pay or source credit).

So again, to the vets, would you do it (Afain, I am sorry I did not bring this up earlier).
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ippy



Joined: 25 Aug 2009

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As more information comes to light, id say no now. Its one thing to correct someones work and help them see their mistakes. Its quite another to do their work for them. When asked, explain this exact moral grounding. Youre absolutely willing to do extra for your boss, you will correct her work and even if asked you will 'happily' spend an hour or so (of your down time - preferably during office hours) discussing with her about the direction she might take her work (AS A TEACHER). But you will not complete her assignment for her.

Make sure the compromise is spelled out as an extra burden youre still taking above and beyond what youre supposed to do so that its completely understood that youre the one doing him the favor in the first place. Otherwise he might get it in his silly head that hes the one doing the favor by 'allowing you' to do less than he asked.

PS. If they insisted, id half bake it. Id probably work on making the general narrative structured to an extent. But i wouldnt particularly care if it was good or bad. Id also not correct her work as carefully as i might. I wouldnt go out of my way to sabotage it or anything, but i wouldnt go out of my way to improve it all that much either. Id spend probably less time on it than i would if i was being helpful. If she gets a pass... good. It means she wont ask me to re-do it. And if she did, more of the same.
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Lucas



Joined: 11 Sep 2012

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Also, you might feel a bit squeamish about the daughter handing in your corrected writing as her own, but its quite normal for Korean students to have their work vetted (sometimes practically ghost-written) by others. Its their way.


One of schwa's students went on to be a boat captain...
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EZE



Joined: 05 May 2012

PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trueblue wrote:
I found out it used to be Wonderland but now operates under a different name


Oh damn... Is that where you work now? Hopefully you're not in Anyang.
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trueblue



Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines

PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Negative...not in Anyang.

(Different province, to the east).

I threw the director a few bones regarding the paper but that where it ended. I am not going to rewrite get precious daughter's papers.

Though, I never counted on having to take home journals to be graded, due to all the other overkill and nonsence cycles of action. I guess if I were a real teacher back home, it would not be much different.
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