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Korean Perception of Foreign English Teachers
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KimchiNinja



Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Korean Perception of Foreign English Teachers Reply with quote

John Stamos jr. wrote:
KimchiNinja wrote:
John Stamos jr. wrote:
KimchiNinja wrote:
John Stamos jr. wrote:
KimchiNinja wrote:
For example: on this site today there was a guy who posted that he likes to fight adjumas on the subway for a seat [facepalm].


Facepalm yourself for having a poor sense of humor. Ridiculous.


LOL. Okay but with the way you guys generally behave how is one to know when you are being serious or not? Ridiculous!


You guys? You're a white dude, too.

This forum is absurd.


Yes, but I don't think I'm one of "you guys". Wink

You got that right! LOL


Yeah, neither do many people here. You can't write for crap, your opinions are whack, you come off as an idiot, and you're probably really a little gyopo guy in real life. But, hey, do your thing buddy.


Ahh, you're still mad about me making so much more money that you.

Results dude, results don't lie.
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John Stamos jr.



Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Location: Namsan

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who said anything about money? Keep stroking that ego, Kim.
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Koreans are resentful of you? Gimme a break...


Some Koreans might be resentful of English teachers. Korean teachers working in hagwans where the foreigners make more. Korean contract teachers working in public schools where the NETs make more. Young Korean guys who have to do 2 years military service while Western guys the same age are living it up abroad. Young people who want to work and travel but there isn't enough demand for Korean language teachers abroad. Young Korean guys just starting at companies making around the same as English teachers yet they have to work longer hours and kow tow to all restrictive Korean social practices etc...The list could be quite long.
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joelove



Joined: 12 May 2011

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What matters is how the students, parents, boss and co-workers perceive you. I've heard it said though that many locals, and not just in Korea, but maybe in any country, don't have high regard for foreign teachers, if and when they bother to form any opinion at all. Some may think you're from a good country with better opportunities, so why are you here? Got a bit of that vibe in China too.
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aq8knyus



Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddycakes wrote:
aq8knyus wrote:


Wow the hate is strong in you, no wonder these threads go down hill. Seriously most english teachers are just normal decent people not "whiny, self-entitled weirdos". There is something deeper behind hate of this sort.

Oh and you do realize that in almost every society business owners, high paid professionals and the like are not the majority of people.



I don't hate anyone... and why would I hate foreigners? I am one.

I just simply poked the veil of self-delusion that a lot of English teachers live in.

Koreans are resentful of you? Gimme a break...

In Korea, you're nothing.

Here you're about as socially significant as the Korean who goes back to the US to study English for a year...

He's nothing in the US.... just as you're nothing here.


Sorry if that's not what you want to hear, but it's reality.

Once you accept reality and stopping fighting it, you'll find yourself much happier in Korea.

Not being a part of society is almost liberating in a way...


We are all nothing. We are all just a bunch of talking monkeys clinging to a rock that is slowly dying. (Frankie Boyle)

I am intrigued though by your references to people being 'nothing'. The Korean learning English in the US is not nothing, he probably a nice hard working chap. The sort of people that keep the world running.

The real people with delusions are the ones working as accountants or lawyers etc. who think they are something. Especially those working in Korea, if someone had professional qualifications why would they not instead make serious money in London, Frankfurt or New York.

Then again maybe they just couldn't get a job back home or are socially awkward...
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Paddycakes



Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First,

The foreigners who work in real professional jobs in Korea are often treated like crap, too.

They're just "hired help" too... they just make a lot more mulla than the English Teachers.

Of course, the story would be different for Defence Contractors and foreigners maybe on an intra-company transfer and diplomatic staff.


By "Nothing" I mean insignificant... insignificant socially, economically and politically.

Are you citizen here? Can you vote?
Will anyone in gov't actually listen to you if you complain?

No...

99 percent of English Teachers can't even speak Korean... let alone wield any political power.

Do you have any economic power?

No...


do you have any social power?

Will Koreans actually take you seriously if you express an opinion?

Generally to always no.



So you may be a really nice guy, a decent human being, a great drinking buddy, but it doesn't change anything.

This is not your country. You're an Outsider here. You're just the hired help.
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newb



Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddycakes wrote:
First,

The foreigners who work in real professional jobs in Korea are often treated like crap, too.

Really? How do you know?

They're just "hired help" too... they just make a lot more mulla than the English Teachers.

Of course, the story would be different for Defence Contractors and foreigners maybe on an intra-company transfer and diplomatic staff.


By "Nothing" I mean insignificant... insignificant socially, economically and politically.

Are you citizen here? Can you vote?
Will anyone in gov't actually listen to you if you complain?

No...

I'm glad I'm not a Korean citizen. I don't have do or put-up with lot of BS that they have to do. As for voting, I don't really care about Korean politics. It's their business, not mine.

99 percent of English Teachers can't even speak Korean... let alone wield any political power.

I can speak Korean (upper-intermediate level and higher for listening).

Do you have any economic power?

No...

Yes, I do. How about you?

do you have any social power?

Will Koreans actually take you seriously if you express an opinion?

I'm here to make money and do my job. I really don't care if Koreans or other people take me seriously or not. People can talk about me behind my back, I just give them the smiley face.

Generally to always no.

So you may be a really nice guy, a decent human being, a great drinking buddy, but it doesn't change anything.

It does change my bank book and investments I made. Razz

This is not your country. You're an Outsider here. You're just the hired help.

Thank you for reminding me.
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aq8knyus



Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddycakes wrote:
First,

The foreigners who work in real professional jobs in Korea are often treated like crap, too.

They're just "hired help" too... they just make a lot more mulla than the English Teachers.

Of course, the story would be different for Defence Contractors and foreigners maybe on an intra-company transfer and diplomatic staff.


By "Nothing" I mean insignificant... insignificant socially, economically and politically.

Are you citizen here? Can you vote?
Will anyone in gov't actually listen to you if you complain?

No...

99 percent of English Teachers can't even speak Korean... let alone wield any political power.

Do you have any economic power?

No...


do you have any social power?

Will Koreans actually take you seriously if you express an opinion?

Generally to always no.



So you may be a really nice guy, a decent human being, a great drinking buddy, but it doesn't change anything.

This is not your country. You're an Outsider here. You're just the hired help.


99.9% of humanity are socially, economically and politically insignificant. See how significant you would be if you lost your job and missed a few wage packets. We are all peasants.

Also what is your point? We are not asking for voting rights. Is is so presumptious to ask for common decency and respect that all human beings deserve. I think we get that by and large, you are the one making out that Koreans are these sick and twisted people who look down on english teachers.
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Malislamusrex



Joined: 01 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get over your self esteem and ego issues.

This whole thread is pathetic.

I feel slightly violated having read it.
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Seoulman69



Joined: 14 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
By "Nothing" I mean insignificant... insignificant socially, economically and politically.


Interesting, if a bit bleak, point of view. I'm interested in how significant you consider yourself in your home country. The last time I checked the majority of people don't hold any political power in my home country either. I'm unsure how a single person can be economically significant. I doubt boycotting a product back home would have any more of an effect than boycotting a product here.
As for socially I would say that you are wrong. An employee in a Korean department store was rude to me so I complained to the boss. The boss then summoned the employee and I received an apology. I'm pretty sure the same thing would happen back home. However, to give another real life tale - A tutor at the uni I study at was rude to me so I complained to his department. The department was dismissive and I had to fight tooth and nail to get an apology. Even now the matter is not fully resolved.

I understand your point of view but to consider yourself some kind of significant social, economic, and political individual back home yet feel you are socially, economically, and politically impotent here is incorrect. Unless of course you think you are impotent back home, in which case your point of view is very depressing.
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diver wrote:
12ax7 wrote:
Since the ESL profession in Korea is a revolving door, next year there will be newer discussions just like this one as a new batch of straight out of university kids arrive.


At least everyone seems to have sorted out where to buy peanut butter, so we won't have to see that particular thread again. Smile


Don't bet on it.
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Paddycakes



Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, I was speaking in generalities Cool

Why is it so hard to accept that as non-citizens in a foreign country who can't vote, can't speak the language, and who are in 99 percent of all cases on temporary work visas that on the social hierarchy in Korea, foreigners are totally insignificant?


But, okay, I give up! You win.

Do it to Julia! Do it to Julia!



The Koreans are resentful of us... They wish they were us.

We have social, political and economic power in Korea.

All Korean women secretly wish they could be with us instead of Korean men.

We make way more money than the average Koreans.

Most Koreans would admit that if they had their way Tompatz would be the President of Korea since he seems be the most knowledge guy in the country Cool




Laughing
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aq8knyus



Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddycakes wrote:
Man, I was speaking in generalities Cool

Why is it so hard to accept that as non-citizens in a foreign country who can't vote, can't speak the language, and who are in 99 percent of all cases on temporary work visas that on the social hierarchy in Korea, foreigners are totally insignificant?


But, okay, I give up! You win.

Do it to Julia! Do it to Julia!



The Koreans are resentful of us... They wish they were us.

We have social, political and economic power in Korea.

All Korean women secretly wish they could be with us instead of Korean men.

We make way more money than the average Koreans.

Most Koreans would admit that if they had their way Tompatz would be the President of Korea since he seems be the most knowledge guy in the country Cool




Laughing


It is good you are calling it a day but just to make it clear you were the one bashing Korea. I talked about the possible reasons for negative views amongst some Koreans. However, you were making out that Koreans look upon english teachers as meaningless sub-humans because we are not all minted.
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Paddycakes



Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aq8knyus wrote:
However, you were making out that Koreans look upon english teachers as meaningless sub-humans because we are not all minted.



That's not what I ever said. Don't exaggerate.

I said:

1. Most Korean don't care about foreigners. We're off their radars, in just the same way as Korean immigrants back home are generally off people's radars.

2. Koreans that do have an opinion generally have a low opinion for a variety of reasons which have been argued ad nauseam on Dave's since forever.

I'm not anti-Korea at all. I can easily see why Koreans often have a low opinion of foreigners. Objectively, the vast majority of foreigners do not conform to the general Korean conception of what constitutes "success".

The difference is I don't take it personally and get angry and defensive about it.

I just accept it as part of the local charm.
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aq8knyus



Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddycakes wrote:
aq8knyus wrote:
However, you were making out that Koreans look upon english teachers as meaningless sub-humans because we are not all minted.



That's not what I ever said. Don't exaggerate.

I said:

1. Most Korean don't care about foreigners. We're off their radars, in just the same way as Korean immigrants back home are generally off people's radars.

2. Koreans that do have an opinion generally have a low opinion for a variety of reasons which have been argued ad nauseam on Dave's since forever.

I'm not anti-Korea at all. I can easily see why Koreans often have a low opinion of foreigners. Objectively, the vast majority of foreigners do not conform to the general Korean conception of what constitutes "success".

The difference is I don't take it personally get angry about it.

I just accept it as part of the local charm.


Well maybe but you did call english teachers nothing, insignificant, whiny, self-entitled weirdos. It weren't far off the mark.

1. Spot on.

2. I remember apparently we are looked down upon by the legions of successful business owners and highly paid professionals that make up the vast majority of Korea.

Ok I get what you are saying but if that were generally true then a) most Koreans are failures and b) Koreans are not particularly nice people. That was why I took what you were saying as a basher comment
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