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PSY's rabid anti-American past
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
hiamnotcool wrote:
You weren't disgusted by a racial slur or a musical artist advocating the murder and torture of innocent civilians in front a crowd? Care to explain why that idea doesn't disgust you?


It doesn't disgusting me because, being a developed, reasonably well-educated adult, I'm capable of seeing past literal language and understanding that he wasn't actually advocating for anyone to be tortured or murdered, but was in fact advocating against it?

hiamnotcool wrote:
While you are at it, please explain how saying you want to murder and torture the families of soldiers is a way of condemning atrocities.


I already did.


Those are some impressive adjectives you used to describe yourself but they don't explain your position.
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So now we're going to cook up little theories about how a tubby singer on youtube believes nose size is a crucial element to genuine racial superiority? That's how this is going to go? Disappointing.


Ok let me explain it a different way. It's quite possible to believe that some Koreans think of themselves as racially superior to 'white' people is it not?

If they then show antagonism towards those people they feel racially superior to by mentioning part of their physical racial characteristics, they can be said to be racist. They don't have to be claiming that the nose itself is superior just that it's one particular charactersitic that differentiates races of different levels of superiority

Not beyond the realms of possibility is it?


Last edited by edwardcatflap on Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Taylormade



Joined: 31 Oct 2012
Location: Incheon

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edwardcatflap wrote:
Quote:
So now we're going to cook up little theories about how a tubby singer on youtube believes nose size is a crucial element to genuine racial superiority? That's how this is going to go? Disappointing.


Ok let me explain it a different way. It's quite possible to believe that some Koreans think of themselves as racially superior to 'white' people is it not? If they then show antagonism towards those people they feel racially superior to by mentioning part of their physical racial characteristics, they can be said to be racist. They don't have to be claiming that the nose itself is superior just that it's one particular cahractersitic that differententiates races of different levels of superiority Not beyond the realms of possibility is it?


The man makes a good point.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edwardcatflap wrote:
Quote:
So now we're going to cook up little theories about how a tubby singer on youtube believes nose size is a crucial element to genuine racial superiority? That's how this is going to go? Disappointing.


Ok let me explain it a different way. It's quite possible to believe that some Koreans think of themselves as racially superior to 'white' people is it not?

If they then show antagonism towards those people they feel racially superior to by mentioning part of their physical racial characteristics, they can be said to be racist.


If one were a complete fool looking to justify their misuse of a word, yes, it could be said. Lots of things could be said. Perhaps instead of looking to justify that which we wish to say, though, we can exit the realm of the hypothetical, return to the realm of the real, and deal with the fact that this was a song expressing anger in response to horrific military atrocity, not extolling the genetic superiority of Koreans over big-nose yankees, and accordingly, none of this squirming nonsense applies in the slightest.

Oh nevermind, be disgusted. Tell us all about your disgust. Status seek to your hearts content. I can't keep banging my head against this wall.
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If one were a complete fool looking to justify their misuse of a word, yes, it could be said. Lots of things could be said


Ok so we've got to the 'you're stupid because I don't agree with you' stage. fair enough, see ya
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everything-is-everything



Joined: 06 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox, is this racist?

http://www.giantrobot.com/blogs/eric/uploaded_images/41603132-714506.jpg


or how about this?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-o_ACxjdjZKA/T1CxVwuHGxI/AAAAAAAAH74/MrFNV8nM1HE/s1600/20120121%2Bblackface.jpg
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Smithington



Joined: 14 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

everything-is-everything wrote:
Fox, is this racist?

http://www.giantrobot.com/blogs/eric/uploaded_images/41603132-714506.jpg


or how about this?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-o_ACxjdjZKA/T1CxVwuHGxI/AAAAAAAAH74/MrFNV8nM1HE/s1600/20120121%2Bblackface.jpg


I'm looking forward to Fox's response. Very Happy
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
edwardcatflap wrote:
Quote:
So now we're going to cook up little theories about how a tubby singer on youtube believes nose size is a crucial element to genuine racial superiority? That's how this is going to go? Disappointing.


Ok let me explain it a different way. It's quite possible to believe that some Koreans think of themselves as racially superior to 'white' people is it not?

If they then show antagonism towards those people they feel racially superior to by mentioning part of their physical racial characteristics, they can be said to be racist.


If one were a complete fool looking to justify their misuse of a word, yes, it could be said. Lots of things could be said. Perhaps instead of looking to justify that which we wish to say, though, we can exit the realm of the hypothetical, return to the realm of the real, and deal with the fact that this was a song expressing anger in response to horrific military atrocity, not extolling the genetic superiority of Koreans over big-nose yankees, and accordingly, none of this squirming nonsense applies in the slightest.

Oh nevermind, be disgusted. Tell us all about your disgust. Status seek to your hearts content. I can't keep banging my head against this wall.


He provided a clear logical explanation that satisfied your ridiculous reasoning that the word 코쟁이 is not racist. I didn't even want to humor you but he not only did he do that, but also made sense. Now all you can do is try to make it sound like he is making things too complicated. There is no way to argue with your point without being too complicated because your argument is trying to make the issue confusing. Are you familiar with the word "코쟁이"? I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you aren't just being intentionally deceitful here. Anyone that is familiar with it aside from people who will go into hysterics and lie trying to cover up the fact that their might be ONE racist Korean person out there there would agree it is a racist word.

Instead of me telling you about my disgust why don't you do what I asked and tell me about your lack of disgust? If it is so cut and dry why don't you explain why the lyrics he sang were not disgusting in any way?
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

everything-is-everything wrote:
Fox, is this racist?

http://www.giantrobot.com/blogs/eric/uploaded_images/41603132-714506.jpg


or how about this?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-o_ACxjdjZKA/T1CxVwuHGxI/AAAAAAAAH74/MrFNV8nM1HE/s1600/20120121%2Bblackface.jpg


No, just silly and stupid. You people are totally out of control.
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everything-is-everything



Joined: 06 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
everything-is-everything wrote:
Fox, is this racist?

http://www.giantrobot.com/blogs/eric/uploaded_images/41603132-714506.jpg


or how about this?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-o_ACxjdjZKA/T1CxVwuHGxI/AAAAAAAAH74/MrFNV8nM1HE/s1600/20120121%2Bblackface.jpg


No, just silly and stupid. You people are totally out of control.



What if I called a black guy a 'coon?
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hiamnotcool wrote:
He provided a clear logical explanation ...


No he didn't, he said something totally divorced from reality which you demean yourself by agreeing with. Seriously, did you even read it? A leap from mocking someone's nose size to declaring their entire race inferior is completely incoherent. He summed up my position very well in his snide response: he's being stupid.

hiamnotcool wrote:
There is no way to argue with your point without being too complicated because your argument is trying to make the issue confusing.


You're confused because you have no idea what the Hell you're talking about.

hiamnotcool wrote:
Anyone that is familiar with it aside from people who will go into hysterics and lie trying to cover up the fact that their might be ONE racist Korean person out there there ...


Given I said:

Fox, One Page Back wrote:
Plenty of South Koreans are racist...


your attempt to portray me in this fashion is blatantly foolish.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

everything-is-everything wrote:
Fox wrote:
everything-is-everything wrote:
Fox, is this racist?

http://www.giantrobot.com/blogs/eric/uploaded_images/41603132-714506.jpg


or how about this?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-o_ACxjdjZKA/T1CxVwuHGxI/AAAAAAAAH74/MrFNV8nM1HE/s1600/20120121%2Bblackface.jpg


No, just silly and stupid. You people are totally out of control.



What if I called a black guy a 'coon?


Possibly racist, possibly just pejorative, depending on a variety of factors.
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geldedgoat



Joined: 05 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
edwardcatflap wrote:
Quote:
Seriously now, I posted the definition of racism in this thread.


No, you posted a definition. People have been arguing about what constitutes racism for a long time without any clear overiding definition being accepted.

If you take another dictionary definition which leaves out all the stuff you were saying about world domination

Quote:
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior:


It could quite easily be levelled at PSY if he was having a go at 'big noses' or the equivalent. If you're using 'big nose' to verbally attack someone it stands to reason that you think big noses are inferior to small ones.


So now we're going to cook up little theories about how a tubby singer on youtube believes nose size is a crucial element to genuine racial superiority? That's how this is going to go? Disappointing.


Ever taken a look at North Korean propaganda and its take on racial superiority? I'm guessing not.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

geldedgoat wrote:
Fox wrote:
edwardcatflap wrote:
Quote:
Seriously now, I posted the definition of racism in this thread.


No, you posted a definition. People have been arguing about what constitutes racism for a long time without any clear overiding definition being accepted.

If you take another dictionary definition which leaves out all the stuff you were saying about world domination

Quote:
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior:


It could quite easily be levelled at PSY if he was having a go at 'big noses' or the equivalent. If you're using 'big nose' to verbally attack someone it stands to reason that you think big noses are inferior to small ones.


So now we're going to cook up little theories about how a tubby singer on youtube believes nose size is a crucial element to genuine racial superiority? That's how this is going to go? Disappointing.


Ever taken a look at North Korean propaganda and its take on racial superiority? I'm guessing not.


Yes, now Psy's war protest song is of a character with North Korean propaganda. Let's just keep escallating this, perhaps we can construe him as the anti-Christ before the day is out. After all, he making passing reference to nose size in his condemnation of some torturous murderers. Clearly disgusting!
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geldedgoat



Joined: 05 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
Yes, now Psy's war protest song is of a character with North Korean propaganda. Let's just keep escallating this, perhaps we can construe him as the anti-Christ before the day is out. After all, he making passing reference to nose size in his condemnation of some torturous murderers. Clearly disgusting!


*sigh* You were incredulous that racism could take a form other than an individual or group of people wanting to assert their will over others because of their racial superiority. Well, take a look a few miles north to see something a little different. They believe themselves morally superior, and that because of this they will never rule and will always be under attack from other races that may be physically or mentally superior. Westerners are frequent targets of the ideologies that result from this belief system, and exaggerated references to nose size is frequently pointed to as a significant physical difference between the 'good' and the 'bad.' You're fooling yourself if you don't think folks like PSY had been exposed to such propaganda (whether directly or indirectly), and that it could have influenced his choice of derogatory terminology.

Really, you're not even grasping at straws anymore at this point. You tried a radical bit of sophistry on this, and edwardcatflap called you on it. It happens. But it's clearly time to give up and move on.


Last edited by geldedgoat on Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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