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Smoking banned at bars in Itaewon/Yongsan-gu
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tiger fancini



Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralCali wrote:
But they don't manage well at all: in subway stations, sometimes on the subway car, in public schools, on train station platforms, and plenty of other places where the law bans smoking. Oh, complaining to the station master about people smoking in the subway station is all kinds of useless when the station master is walking around the subway station smoking!


Some of them don't manage well, but that's probably because nicotine/tobacco is a highly addictive substance. People, especially old people, find it hard to break habits they've been engaging in for years.

12ax7 wrote:
All restaurants allow smoking right now, which means that non-smokers have to stay at home because smokers can be dicks? Disingenuous argument, buddy.


Where do you live, that all restaurants allow smoking? I can only speak for Seoul, as I live there. Non smokers in Seoul can enjoy a smoke-free atmosphere in TGI Fridays, Outback, most Kimbab places, food courts, small restaurants located in department stores and shopping centres and fast-food restaurants to name a few. What's the problem?
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
12ax7 wrote:
Steelrails wrote:

Quote:
Do you think I'm a willing customer when some a-hole lights a cigarette in a restaurant next to my kid?


Yes you are. The second you choose to enter a restaurant that permits smoking, you are a willing customer. If you don't like it, don't enter.

What's next complaining that an R-rated movie has violence and nudity that you bought a ticket for and brought your kid into?


All restaurants allow smoking right now, which means that non-smokers have to stay at home because smokers can be dicks? Disingenuous argument, buddy.


Many restaurants allow smoking right now, some don't. Go eat at a non-smoking restaurant.

Again, if you don't like Italian food and want Indian food instead, you don't walk into an Italian restaurant and claim ethnic discrimination and demand that they change to make YOU happy. You go to an Indian restaurant. If there isn't one, well then you are out of luck. Guess you have to cook at home.

Entertainment is a contracted service, not an absolute right. Restaurants and bars and their staff do not exist to make you happy. They offer services and goods in exchange for cash.

Eating a meal is your responsibility. Dining at a restaurant is not a right. The restaurant does not exist to cater to your every whim. If you don't like the meal or the atmosphere you have ZERO right to dictate change.

What's next? Demanding a right to Michelin 3 Star quality food even though you can only afford McDonald's prices?

Seriously, these aren't government buildings or banks. These are restaurants. Places of entertainment. Luxuries, not necessities.



Since when is smoking a right? Restaurants and bars exist so people can smoke in them or so they can sell food and drink?

Restaurants and bars don't exist to make their clientele happy? That's an insult to anyone who's studied culinary arts.

Again, you're making disingenuous arguments.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

12ax7 wrote:
Smoking is not a right.


Neither is eating in a restaurant.

Quote:
Restaurants and bars exist so people can smoke in them or so they can sell food and drink?


Restaurants exist to make money. If the owner, you know the person who unlike you, financed the operation and assumed all the liabilities and risks, decides that they want to offer smoking within their private establishment, then good for them.

Quote:
Restaurants and bars don't exist to make their clientele happy? That's an insult to anyone who's studied culinary arts.


As someone who worked in the industry, no we don't exist to make our clientele happy. We exist to provide the clientele with the best we have to offer within our guidelines.

Client happiness does not supersede the operating profitability of the restaurant. One should not make their other 20 patrons unhappy just to make one patron happy.

Life does not start and stop at your convenience. You are free to cook at home. You are free to patronize non-smoking establishments. You are free to establish your own non-smoking venues. Just like if you want to visit a bar that plays Classic Rock instead of pop. You want it? You patronize it or you open it or you stay home.

Again, WHY CAN'T YOU JUST GO TO ANOTHER RESTAURANT? OR EAT AT HOME?
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MoneyMike



Joined: 03 Dec 2008

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't really like the idea of having some establishments with licenses, and some without. That just creates a situation where there's always a conflict about where you and your friends are going on any given night. How many groups do you know where everyone is a smoker, or everyone is a non-smoker?

Do people commonly smoke in galbi and other type restaurants? To be honest, here in Gwangju I've never really noticed someone smoking in a restaurant I was in.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoneyMike wrote:
I don't really like the idea of having some establishments with licenses, and some without. That just creates a situation where there's always a conflict about where you and your friends are going on any given night. How many groups do you know where everyone is a smoker, or everyone is a non-smoker?


The horror, people having to reach a compromise.

I imagine things would go down similar to vegetarians and non-vegetarians. Or Kosher/Halal types.

Or between people who drink and people who don't. Some people want to drink with their meal and insist on a place that serves alcohol. Some people could care less if there is booze or not.

Some people won't eat processed or crappy food and refuse to eat at a KimBapChunguk for dinner. Some people are cheapskates and insist on eating there.

Somehow life goes on. People interact and compromise with each other. They reach agreements. They don't file lawsuits and try and pass legislation.

We can do the same with licensed smoking establishments. We can have common sense.
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KimchiNinja



Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
We can have common sense.


Not so common on Dave's. Wink
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Zyzyfer



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoneyMike wrote:
I don't really like the idea of having some establishments with licenses, and some without. That just creates a situation where there's always a conflict about where you and your friends are going on any given night. How many groups do you know where everyone is a smoker, or everyone is a non-smoker?


Like SR said you reach a compromise. When I'm with people who don't smoke I go outside. The only time this does not happen is when non-smokers agree to go somewhere where smoking is expected. There is never this big conflict about how I need to go somewhere expressly so I have the ability to puff on a cig. Smokers who do not defer in this fashion are assholes and shouldn't be your pal to begin with.

Quote:
Do people commonly smoke in galbi and other type restaurants? To be honest, here in Gwangju I've never really noticed someone smoking in a restaurant I was in.


When I went to Chuncheon earlier this year I was surprised because all the restaurants I saw were non-smoking. I kind of figured this was trending outside of Seoul although I don't roam around Korea trying to figure out the status of various cities for smokers.

Anyway, smoking has been fairly common in Seoul in such establishments. But there has been a slow move - until this legislation was passed at least, now it's fast - towards banning smoking.
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KimchiNinja



Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoneyMike wrote:
Do people commonly smoke in galbi and other type restaurants?


Of course, Korean dudes here in Seoul go out for 1) cooked meat, 2) drinking, 3) smoking, and 4) women. It's not a problem I've ever encountered amongst Koreans, they don't seem to care if one of their dudes smokes and the other dude doesn't. But if there is an American in the group it becomes a big uncomfortable argument.

Which makes the law a bit curious, where is it coming from? It isn't coming from market forces, the market would have already done it without government intervention if demand was sufficent.
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Peace Train



Joined: 01 Nov 2012

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KimchiNinja wrote:
MoneyMike wrote:
Do people commonly smoke in galbi and other type restaurants?


Of course, Korean dudes here in Seoul go out for 1) cooked meat, 2) drinking, 3) smoking, and 4) women. It's not a problem I've ever encountered amongst Koreans, they don't seem to care if one of their dudes smokes and the other dude doesn't. But if there is an American in the group it becomes a big uncomfortable argument.

Which makes the law a bit curious, where is it coming from? It isn't coming from market forces, the market would have already done it without government intervention if demand was sufficent.


Not sure what brand of bottom feeders you're hanging out with, but when i'm out with my Korean co-workers this is ALWAYS an issue. An older adjossi kicks back, lights up a smoke right there at the table and someone (usually a younger guy/girl) politely asks him to hold off and smoke outside. More times than not he guffaws or sputters out an "aiiish" and gives them the ol' shoe-shoe sign with his hand while continuing to suck away at his fag like a malnourished baby on his mothers tit.

I saw this come to a head once when the female was an upper manager. She tore a strip off the dude and forced him to butt out his cig which he with complete and utter contempt.
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Unibrow



Joined: 20 Aug 2012

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peace Train wrote:
KimchiNinja wrote:
MoneyMike wrote:
Do people commonly smoke in galbi and other type restaurants?


Of course, Korean dudes here in Seoul go out for 1) cooked meat, 2) drinking, 3) smoking, and 4) women. It's not a problem I've ever encountered amongst Koreans, they don't seem to care if one of their dudes smokes and the other dude doesn't. But if there is an American in the group it becomes a big uncomfortable argument.

Which makes the law a bit curious, where is it coming from? It isn't coming from market forces, the market would have already done it without government intervention if demand was sufficent.


Not sure what brand of bottom feeders you're hanging out with, but when i'm out with my Korean co-workers this is ALWAYS an issue. An older adjossi kicks back, lights up a smoke right there at the table and someone (usually a younger guy/girl) politely asks him to hold off and smoke outside. More times than not he guffaws or sputters out an "aiiish" and gives them the ol' shoe-shoe sign with his hand while continuing to suck away at his fag like a malnourished baby on his mothers tit.

I saw this come to a head once when the female was an upper manager. She tore a strip off the dude and forced him to butt out his cig which he with complete and utter contempt.


You sound like you hang out with a bunch of uptight boring people.
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
12ax7 wrote:
Smoking is not a right.


Neither is eating in a restaurant.

Quote:
Restaurants and bars exist so people can smoke in them or so they can sell food and drink?


Restaurants exist to make money. If the owner, you know the person who unlike you, financed the operation and assumed all the liabilities and risks, decides that they want to offer smoking within their private establishment, then good for them.

Quote:
Restaurants and bars don't exist to make their clientele happy? That's an insult to anyone who's studied culinary arts.


As someone who worked in the industry, no we don't exist to make our clientele happy. We exist to provide the clientele with the best we have to offer within our guidelines.

Client happiness does not supersede the operating profitability of the restaurant. One should not make their other 20 patrons unhappy just to make one patron happy.

Life does not start and stop at your convenience. You are free to cook at home. You are free to patronize non-smoking establishments. You are free to establish your own non-smoking venues. Just like if you want to visit a bar that plays Classic Rock instead of pop. You want it? You patronize it or you open it or you stay home.

Again, WHY CAN'T YOU JUST GO TO ANOTHER RESTAURANT? OR EAT AT HOME?


Working at McDonald's doesn't count.

It's quite simple. If you want to smoke the cancer sticks, smoke at home. Your addiction does not give you the right to damage the health of others.
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Peace Train



Joined: 01 Nov 2012

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unibrow wrote:

You sound like you hang out with a bunch of uptight boring people.


Ya, cause smoking is, like, the coolest.

Nothing says partytime like a bunch of people sitting around huffing nicotine and tar.
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KimchiNinja



Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peace Train wrote:
KimchiNinja wrote:
MoneyMike wrote:
Do people commonly smoke in galbi and other type restaurants?


Of course, Korean dudes here in Seoul go out for 1) cooked meat, 2) drinking, 3) smoking, and 4) women. It's not a problem I've ever encountered amongst Koreans, they don't seem to care if one of their dudes smokes and the other dude doesn't. But if there is an American in the group it becomes a big uncomfortable argument.

Which makes the law a bit curious, where is it coming from? It isn't coming from market forces, the market would have already done it without government intervention if demand was sufficent.


Not sure what brand of bottom feeders you're hanging out with...


Ha, you're going to fit in just great here on Dave's.
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Moondoggy



Joined: 07 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smokers are a detriment to everybody's health. it's terribly annoying.
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northway



Joined: 05 Jul 2010

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unibrow wrote:
Peace Train wrote:
KimchiNinja wrote:
MoneyMike wrote:
Do people commonly smoke in galbi and other type restaurants?


Of course, Korean dudes here in Seoul go out for 1) cooked meat, 2) drinking, 3) smoking, and 4) women. It's not a problem I've ever encountered amongst Koreans, they don't seem to care if one of their dudes smokes and the other dude doesn't. But if there is an American in the group it becomes a big uncomfortable argument.

Which makes the law a bit curious, where is it coming from? It isn't coming from market forces, the market would have already done it without government intervention if demand was sufficent.


Not sure what brand of bottom feeders you're hanging out with, but when i'm out with my Korean co-workers this is ALWAYS an issue. An older adjossi kicks back, lights up a smoke right there at the table and someone (usually a younger guy/girl) politely asks him to hold off and smoke outside. More times than not he guffaws or sputters out an "aiiish" and gives them the ol' shoe-shoe sign with his hand while continuing to suck away at his fag like a malnourished baby on his mothers tit.

I saw this come to a head once when the female was an upper manager. She tore a strip off the dude and forced him to butt out his cig which he with complete and utter contempt.


You sound like you hang out with a bunch of uptight boring people.


Seriously.
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