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Shooting at Conneticut School: 28 dead
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you post some links to threads where he said such things? Judging by your tone, it doesn't sound like it would be hard to do.
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comm



Joined: 22 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sirius black wrote:
Titus, at this point in America its the Blacks that are committing a high amount of crime. You are saying its genetic but when it was the Irish committing crime for about half a century, you don't say its genetic? Why is that?

For that to be relevant, you would have to show that Blacks were committing crimes at a lower rate than Irish of similar socio-economic status at that time. Titus' position is that Blacks commit crimes at a higher rate than any other race once socio-economic status is accounted for. "Poor Irish commit a lot of crimes" doesn't speak to that position in any way.

augustine wrote:
You said that blacks were inherently different than other races. I'm just pointing that out.

I'm curious as to how you identify someone as "black" if they aren't inherently different than other races.
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bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartacist wrote:
If you look at surveys of crime rather than basing your figures on arrests, African Americans commit crimes at roughly the same rate as other ethnicities. They are disproportionately represented in arrest rates because of racial profiling and because they more often come from lower socio-economic groups.


According to the department of justice, for the crime of homicide, "in 2008, the offending rate for blacks (24.7 offenders per 100,000) was 7 times higher than the rate for whites (3.4 offenders per 100,000)."

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf
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Leon



Joined: 31 May 2010

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:
Can you post some links to threads where he said such things? Judging by your tone, it doesn't sound like it would be hard to do.


I'm guessing it's at least in part reference to this thread where Fox was warned, almost banned, and left for a while. I wouldn't remember this, but it was apparently my post that was the final straw.

Fox wrote:
You know what Enrico, forget it. I was all ready considering putting a stop to my time killing on this site due to a worsening dearth of genuinely interesting posters, and being threatened with a ban for racism over an 8 month old post by people who obviously don't understand what racism actually is has convinced me it's probably a good idea. If that weren't enough, Leon's banal, unrigorous, pseudointellectual attempt at a defense of the politically-correct status quo is surely the final nail in the coffin.


http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=2683797&highlight=#2683797
It's a rare combination to be banal, unrigorous and pseudointellectual while at the same time defending the politically-correct status quo, so fair enough I guess. Can we please stop talking about black people in a thread about mass shooters, especially given that there hasn't been a black shooter, like ever? No, Malvo doesn't count, he was a serial killer.

Anyways, in more relevant news, James Holmes will likely get the insanity defense.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/01/how-aurora-shooter-james-holmes-might-get-away-insanity-defense/60679/
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comm



Joined: 22 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leon wrote:
Can we please stop talking about black people in a thread about mass shooters, especially given that there hasn't been a black shooter, like ever? No, Malvo doesn't count, he was a serial killer.

Isn't that equally interesting?
Why are the vast majority of mass killings done by Whites?
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Leon



Joined: 31 May 2010

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

comm wrote:
Leon wrote:
Can we please stop talking about black people in a thread about mass shooters, especially given that there hasn't been a black shooter, like ever? No, Malvo doesn't count, he was a serial killer.

Isn't that equally interesting?
Why are the vast majority of mass killings done by Whites?


Sure, we can talk about why mostly whites, with a few Asian's feel compelled towards meaningless violence on a mass scale. I can't really think of other races that have that issue. I think the Arab guy at Fort Hood is in a different category, and would consider that more an act of terrorism than the other cases in the category. I wonder if it's an urban/rural thing, I mean haven't most of the places been outside of urban areas. Maybe it's actually suburban rather than rural, not sure, but it doesn't seem to be as much of a big city problem.
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comm



Joined: 22 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leon wrote:
Sure, we can talk about why mostly whites, with a few Asian's feel compelled towards meaningless violence on a mass scale. I can't really think of other races that have that issue.

I haven't done a massive amount of research on the topic, but a cursory glance at wikipedia seems to indicate that it's not a White-only crime on a global scale. That likely narrows our American statistics down to a cultural root.

Also, I think the reason the thread was talking about Blacks was because the thread immediately moved to gun control, which is much more about day-to-day crime than mass shootings. Since as I've pointed out, no laws (short of repealing the Second Amendment) would have stopped Sandy Hook. Considering the evidence presented, that doesn't seem unreasonable.
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bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why are the vast majority of mass killings done by Whites?


Could it be that whites (and Asians) are more prone to certain mental illnesses, or to depression? I have no idea if this is true, I'm merely speculating.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whites make up 72.4% of America's population according to Wikipedia's demographic information. What percentage of mass killers in America are white?
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
Whites make up 72.4% of America's population according to Wikipedia's demographic information. What percentage of mass killers in America are white?


http://lawsonry.com/2012/08/the-entitlement-complex-of-mass-murdering-white-men.html

According to this link it's around 75% for rampage killings.

But that is White MALES and not all whites (which is a much smaller percentage of the white population)

According to wiki

Quote:
1564 years: 67% (male 102,665,043/female 103,129,321)


so slightly less half of 67% of the population fall into the age range/sex of the majority of mass shooters.

so roughly about 33%...if my math is accurate?
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Males are vastly over-represented in all violent crimes, and the elderly are under-represented. The intended comparison here is, I'm given to understand, between whites and non-whites, so if one is to correct for age and gender, one is going to have to do that on an America-wide scale for all racial groups in order to present the proper proportion, and while it won't necessarily strictly cancel out, it will leave you with something more representative and informative.

To be fair, though, it was pretty stupid of me to even contemplate the notion that this was the place for a rational, data-driven conversation on the matter.
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Leon



Joined: 31 May 2010

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The answer to bringing down the urban crime rate is to stop the war on drugs, and stop sending black kids to the worst schools. If its true that most black crime revolves around drug activity, than removing the incentive to sell drugs should by at least half. The war on drugs is about as well planned out as the war on terror. In the town where I went to college there was a huge drug problem, huge amounts of meth, among other things, and there was no war on drugs there. Dealers weren't worried about the police, nobody was stopped, the only way to be caught was to be stupid or unlucky.

I think that more people are becoming open to ending the war on drugs, and as older people die off it won't be as politically impossible. If we're talking data, then why leave out the data about how blacks are stopped more often, less likely to get a fair trial, less likely to get called back for an interview, the sentencing disparities, the state of black schools vrs white ones, etc. etc. it's a surprise that they go outside of the system? I mean we can have this conversation if people want, but I guess it's easier to call it genetics or culture.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leon wrote:
The answer to bringing down the urban crime rate is to stop the war on drugs,


Very wise policy suggestion.

Leon wrote:
... and stop sending black kids to the worst schools.


What makes those schools "the worst?" Just lack of funding? If we dump money on the issue, will it be resolved?

Leon wrote:
.If we're talking data, then why leave out the data about how blacks are stopped more often, less likely to get a fair trial, less likely to get called back for an interview, the sentencing disparities, the state of black schools vrs white ones, etc.


They shouldn't be left out (and the sentencing disparity especially is a highly unjust issue that is desperately in need of resolution), but neither should culture, nor even genetics, at least if one wants to work towards a broad understanding of the issue.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: It's not a superiority complex when you really are superior

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
Males are vastly over-represented in all violent crimes, and the elderly are under-represented. The intended comparison here is, I'm given to understand, between whites and non-whites, so if one is to correct for age and gender, one is going to have to do that on an America-wide scale for all racial groups in order to present the proper proportion, and while it won't necessarily strictly cancel out, it will leave you with something more representative and informative.

To be fair, though, it was pretty stupid of me to even contemplate the notion that this was the place for a rational, data-driven conversation on the matter.



If the comparison is between whites and non-whites ( all other racial groups yes?) why would one have to correct for age and gender on an America-wide scale for ALL racial groups? If you wanted a statistical breakdown for each race then sure. But if we are comparing two groups whites and non-whites...then the stats for one group by inductive reasoning show us the stats for the other.



Anyway (in answer to the actual question that you asked) I provided a link that shows whites (particularly white men) committed a disproportionate amount of mass shootings in regards to that particular demographic. The stats may be wrong or right...don't care enough to find out. You're right this is not the place.
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Leon



Joined: 31 May 2010

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
Leon wrote:
The answer to bringing down the urban crime rate is to stop the war on drugs,


Very wise policy suggestion.

Leon wrote:
... and stop sending black kids to the worst schools.


What makes those schools "the worst?" Just lack of funding? If we dump money on the issue, will it be resolved?

Leon wrote:
.If we're talking data, then why leave out the data about how blacks are stopped more often, less likely to get a fair trial, less likely to get called back for an interview, the sentencing disparities, the state of black schools vrs white ones, etc.




They shouldn't be left out (and the sentencing disparity especially is a highly unjust issue that is desperately in need of resolution), but neither should culture, nor even genetics, at least if one wants to work towards a broad understanding of the issue.


Well obviously the infrastructure is worse, such as older buildings, worse technology, lack of heating, worse and older textbooks, etc. I think culture has a place, but until there is valid genetic research, genetics is probably best left out. I mean all the research on this subject that shows meaningful differences was funded by the eugenics backing pioneer fund.
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