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guns
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banjois



Joined: 14 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, but not handguns and assault rifles, so much.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got mixed feelings on guns. Used to be VERY pro-gun. Have lightened up considerably.

Quote:
Gun collectors, for instance. Seems like a childish fetish to me. "Look at all these man-toys I've accumulated." Proving what exactly?


Well proving, well..., well proving...

Well the fact is its cool to own a Civil War era firearm and bore people to death with details about what units carried the Austrian Lorentz and their combat record and the famous battles involved and such.

Me personally when I go back and purchase my first firearms I will purchase historical firearms and would have little interest in anything else. I feel a Civil War era revolver is still an effective weapon for personal defense if it should ever come to that and I have no expectation that it will. Heck I probably wouldn't care if they fired at all, though it would be nice to fire a replica just to get the "feel".

I dunno I kinda feel that the only guns available to the public should be of a limited type, likely past military issue. M1Garand, 1903 Springfield, 1911 Colt. Henry rifle. Winchester Repeater. Colt Revolver. Remington 870 shotgun. Really what does anyone need a gun for that couldn't be handled by one of those?

Quote:
Or shooting as a sport. About as much athleticism as car racing.


This I get. It's like darts. It's not about athleticism, it's about precision and focus.

That, and there is something stupid fun about drinking and shooting on your porch or around a bonfire.

Quote:
Or not feeling safe in your own home unless you've got a loaded gun at the ready in case someone has the audacity to knock at your door -- & accepting that as normal. Or getting ready to go out for the evening. "Wallet, check. Gun, check."


Yeah if I was ever in that situation I'd just move to somewhere where that wasn't necessary.

Quote:
If nobody else had guns - you don't need a gun to protect yourself. Duh. Secondly, if half or more of the populace of average Joe's think they're going to be successful seeing off an armed gangbanger trying to burgle their house, - they're likely to be in for a rude awakening and just end up getting a worse beating for pulling a gun on him or getting shot for scaring the guy. Best scenario - burglar breaks into your home or carjacks you and you shoot and kill him - you live with the guilt of killing someone for the rest of your life rather than being a little pissed that you lost some stuff you don't even really need and your insurance will pay for anyhow.


Actually there was an elderly gentlemen in a crappy Detroit neighborhood who shot a burglar.

Yeah, sometimes they work.

But I agree that odds are good that the situation ends badly. But then again you read stories about people getting raped and then killed and you have to think- Better to go down shootin than to just die helplessly like that.

But again, odds are you cause an accident more than you save yourself.

Quote:
The deer would catch your scent and run away before that could ever happen.


Not always. Acquaintance back home once mowed down a whole herd with his illegally modified AK.

Everyone thought he was just a complete idiot, even the most pro-gun country of em. If for no other reason than now he had to take care of 110 deer carcases or else deal with scavengers and whatnot going through his fields and threatening his (and others) livestock. "Are you happy now?" was the general consensus.

Gun owners and hunters can be rather practical and intolerant of stupid behavior when it comes to guns.


Quote:
Actually, there's something liberating about knowing I can go pretty much anywhere at any time of day and night without being assaulted or mugged.


This. Not living in mortal terror of armed robbery (or having employees pull a piece out during a workplace argument) at my place of employment is one of the best changes in my career experience when coming here.
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fermentation



Joined: 22 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:

a crappy Detroit neighborhood who shot a burglar.



Don't you mean the whole of Detroit?
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yagremohbhg wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
Canada has a swack of guns.


Sorry, didn't know that, my bad. Then why not so much gun crime? Or is there. I know much not about Canada.

Rest of my previous post stands though.

I reckon Obama is going to make a big anti gun push too.


There is a very low crime rate overall, not just murders (last time I heard there was a murder in my hometown was when I was in high school...That was over 2 decades ago).

Simple, there are few gun crimes in Canada because we'd rather resolve our problems in a non-violent manner (or with a good fist fight).

It's also about attitudes and gun control. We generally see firearms as something for hunting, not for personal protection (heck, many Canadians don't even lock their doors and windows). Where I'm from, people have no practical use for handguns, so few people own them (they suck for hunting moose, so what's the point?).
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northway



Joined: 05 Jul 2010

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

12ax7 wrote:
Yagremohbhg wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
Canada has a swack of guns.


Sorry, didn't know that, my bad. Then why not so much gun crime? Or is there. I know much not about Canada.

Rest of my previous post stands though.

I reckon Obama is going to make a big anti gun push too.


Simple, there are few gun crimes in Canada because we'd rather resolve our problems in a non-violent manner (or with a good fist fight). Attitudes and gun control. Besides, we generally see firearms as something for hunting, not for home protection (heck, most of us don't even lock our doors and windows, even when we aren't home).


I've found this to be an absolute fallacy. Yeah, I'm sure that Canadians in rural areas don't lock their doors, but the same applies to Americans. Urban Canadians are most definitely locking their doors when they're out of the house.
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ricochet



Joined: 04 Sep 2011
Location: i wish to fly to Colorado...

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crying or Very sad

Last edited by ricochet on Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fermentation wrote:
Steelrails wrote:

a crappy Detroit neighborhood who shot a burglar.



Don't you mean the whole of Detroit?


Crap.

I meant an old guy living in a crappy neighborhood who shot a burglar.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/03/28/elderly-homeowner-fatally-shoots-young-burglar/

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2012/03/no_apologies_75-year-old_retir.html

I'll say this. Reading stories like this makes it hard not to support the right of someone to own guns. Even if the burglars were unarmed, what's a 75 year-old retiree and decent citizen supposed to do to defend himself and his bedridden wife? Challenge them to fisticuffs? Flee and leave her behind?
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Swampfox10mm



Joined: 24 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

12ax7 wrote:
highstreet wrote:
I own a few guns, while I'm in favor of some gun control, I don't see it making a big difference in regards to the murder rate.


Cognitive dissonance? 170 murders committed with firearms in Canada per year vs. 9100 per year in the US. Heck, 14 per year in South Korea (mostly soldiers, no doubt).


And how many inner-city black neighborhoods are in Canada? Of course, black people aren't the ones entering schools in the US and killing kids, but in all seriousness, you guys just don't have the racial discord to deal with.
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northway



Joined: 05 Jul 2010

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swampfox10mm wrote:
12ax7 wrote:
highstreet wrote:
I own a few guns, while I'm in favor of some gun control, I don't see it making a big difference in regards to the murder rate.


Cognitive dissonance? 170 murders committed with firearms in Canada per year vs. 9100 per year in the US. Heck, 14 per year in South Korea (mostly soldiers, no doubt).


And how many inner-city black neighborhoods are in Canada? Of course, black people aren't the ones entering schools in the US and killing kids, but in all seriousness, you guys just don't have the racial discord to deal with.


Plenty, actually, and they're generally a lot safer than those in the States. Canada is just a lot better at dealing with its racial issues (in part because it's not socially acceptable to go around attributing violence to the prevalence of black neighborhoods...).
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

northway wrote:
Swampfox10mm wrote:
12ax7 wrote:
highstreet wrote:
I own a few guns, while I'm in favor of some gun control, I don't see it making a big difference in regards to the murder rate.


Cognitive dissonance? 170 murders committed with firearms in Canada per year vs. 9100 per year in the US. Heck, 14 per year in South Korea (mostly soldiers, no doubt).


And how many inner-city black neighborhoods are in Canada? Of course, black people aren't the ones entering schools in the US and killing kids, but in all seriousness, you guys just don't have the racial discord to deal with.


Plenty, actually, and they're generally a lot safer than those in the States. Canada is just a lot better at dealing with its racial issues (in part because it's not socially acceptable to go around attributing violence to the prevalence of black neighborhoods...).


Toronto's gun crime is almost entirely (if not 100pc) black.

http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/homicide/mostwanted.php

Everywhere you go everything is the same but pattern recognition is racist so don't notice patterns.
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

northway wrote:
12ax7 wrote:
Yagremohbhg wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
Canada has a swack of guns.


Sorry, didn't know that, my bad. Then why not so much gun crime? Or is there. I know much not about Canada.

Rest of my previous post stands though.

I reckon Obama is going to make a big anti gun push too.


Simple, there are few gun crimes in Canada because we'd rather resolve our problems in a non-violent manner (or with a good fist fight). Attitudes and gun control. Besides, we generally see firearms as something for hunting, not for home protection (heck, most of us don't even lock our doors and windows, even when we aren't home).


I've found this to be an absolute fallacy. Yeah, I'm sure that Canadians in rural areas don't lock their doors, but the same applies to Americans. Urban Canadians are most definitely locking their doors when they're out of the house.


No, it isn't a fallacy. "Us" as in people from where I'm from. I'm not from the parts of Vancouver where there is gang violence.
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12ax7



Joined: 07 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swampfox10mm wrote:
12ax7 wrote:
highstreet wrote:
I own a few guns, while I'm in favor of some gun control, I don't see it making a big difference in regards to the murder rate.


Cognitive dissonance? 170 murders committed with firearms in Canada per year vs. 9100 per year in the US. Heck, 14 per year in South Korea (mostly soldiers, no doubt).


And how many inner-city black neighborhoods are in Canada? Of course, black people aren't the ones entering schools in the US and killing kids, but in all seriousness, you guys just don't have the racial discord to deal with.


Gee, that's not racist one bit.
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Swampfox10mm



Joined: 24 Mar 2011

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

12ax7 wrote:
Swampfox10mm wrote:
12ax7 wrote:
highstreet wrote:
I own a few guns, while I'm in favor of some gun control, I don't see it making a big difference in regards to the murder rate.


Cognitive dissonance? 170 murders committed with firearms in Canada per year vs. 9100 per year in the US. Heck, 14 per year in South Korea (mostly soldiers, no doubt).


And how many inner-city black neighborhoods are in Canada? Of course, black people aren't the ones entering schools in the US and killing kids, but in all seriousness, you guys just don't have the racial discord to deal with.


Gee, that's not racist one bit.


Merely pointing-out facts.

If it makes you feel better, a similar violent trend happened with various white ethnic groups in larger cities throughout the US, many years ago. It has to do with being disadvantaged and poor. Unfortunately, we now live in a society where "thug" is glamorized by rap music and movies.

I'm merely pointing out a statistic that is true. Search on violent gun crime and blacks. By far and away, the problem is greatest in inner-city areas. I don't care much for the race attack artists that scream, "RACIST!" In my view, most of them are racist in the other direction. When I see plain, cold stats, I call it as I see it.

The US will never be able to deal with race issues so long as people are afraid to speak out about what the real problem is, and address it.

Call me a racist -- personally, I don't care. I have black friends, enjoy black people, and tend to show black people a higher level of kindness just because I feel for them, knowing what they have to go through. If you or anyone wants to still call me a racist, then go for it. Your opinion makes no difference to me.

Like I said, I call it as I see it.
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KimchiNinja



Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:32 pm    Post subject: Re: guns Reply with quote

Quack Addict wrote:
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.


Argh, Americans keep saying this and I just want to stick a spoon in my ear and twist it around until I pop my ear drum right out. [facepalm]

It seems they can't look reality in the face, even people who have been in safe places and like Seoul where nobody gets shot, and see how reality works, still keep chanting this nonsense. A physical object is created with a purpose (an M-16), and it changes hands until it finds a hand that will use it for its purpose...once created, it will get used. Talk to a cop about how guns change hands. That's how stuff works. And in a place with as many angry, dissatisfied, malnourished, judgment impaired, insane people as the USA you should NOT have a bunch of automatic weapons laying around. WHAT ELSE DO YOU THINK WILL HAPPEN???

Sorry, I can't even summon the energy to think about it, I got an airplane ticket and now it's not a part of my world anymore.
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Died By Bear



Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

madoka wrote:
Died By Bear wrote:
I've got an assault rife (M4 w/eotech scope), and a gen 4 G19.


Very nice looking weapon. It's an M4 and not a AR-15? What version Eotech do you have on it and do you like it?



It's a Stag Arms M4. The Eotech is the 512.A65 seen here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCYjdu_fO3Q


I have much better groupings with this scope. I love it, although sometimes get jealous when I see others w/ACOGs


One final response to people like Schwa.

I'm waiting for the zombie apocalypse. It's coming, mark my words. When it comes, you can fight them off with books, I'll use zombie rounds.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQWb-5nblx4


Last edited by Died By Bear on Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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