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The war over Hagel is on
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Titus



Joined: 19 May 2012

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:43 am    Post subject: The war over Hagel is on Reply with quote

http://mondoweiss.net/2012/12/the-war-over-hagel-is-on.html
Quote:
The war over Chuck Hagel's possible appointment to be Secretary of Defense has begun in earnest, but right now at the fringe: leading the attack are neoconservatives at the Weekly Standard and the Republican Jewish Coalition who surely hope to nip this idea in the bud lest a Republican who has been openly critical of Israel gets a top policy job.

Following an earlier anonymous threat he published from an alleged congressional staffer to paint Hagel as an "anti-Semite," neoconservative godfather Bill Kristol has published "a fact sheet circulating widely on Capitol Hill" (who knows what that mean?) that seeks to portray Chuck Hagel as an Israel-hater who would appease Iran. Some of the fact sheet's assertions will please those who seek a balanced American policy in the Middle East:

In December 2005, Hagel was one of 27 Senators who refused to sign a letter to President Bush requesting the U.S. pressure the Palestinians to ban terrorist groups from participating in legislative elections...

In August 2006, Hagel was only of 12 senators who refused to sign a letter asking the EU to declare Hezbollah a terrorist organization...

[i] In July 2002, in a Washington Post op-ed, after several of the most deadly months of Palestinian suicide bombings, Hagel wrote that the U.S. was erroneously “making Yassir Arafat the issue,” that Palestinians could not be expected to make democratic reforms as long as “Israeli military occupation and settlement activity” continue, and that “Israel must take steps to show its commitment to peace.”...

In calling upon President Bush to demand an immediate ceasefire after Israel responded to a Hezbollah attack in 2006, Hagel said: “This madness must stop," and accused Israel of "the systematic destruction of an American friend -- the country and people of Lebanon."
[/i]

Other neocons are echo-chambering Hagel's "anti-Israel" positions, and landing on the fact that Stephen Walt, co-author of The Israel Lobby, is for Hagel.

It doesn't matter that Hagel is a Republican; on its twitter feed, the Republican Jewish Coalition has cited Hagel's "fond" reflections of Iranian diplomats, retweeted an article saying that Hagel has "malignant" feelings about Israel, and has challenged the National Jewish Democratic Council to condemn Hagel, based on the 2009 statements by former NJDC leader (and Obama Jewish point man) Ira Forman that he saw Hagel as a concern for Israel supporters. RJC's Matt Brooks calls the possible nod a slap in the face to Israel supporters:

The Jewish community and every American who supports a strong U.S.-Israel relationship have cause for alarm if the President taps Hagel for such an important post.

But Peter Beinart argues that AIPAC won't be able to defeat Hagel if he's nominated and that it will fold its hand and let the hard-right howl. Also at Beinart's shop, Ali Gharib quotes one Democrat who's supportive of Hagel:

I asked [Aaron David] Miller if he still viewed Hagel as "pro-Israel." "I don't think there's a Senator of note in the Senate who is not pro-Israel," he responded. "But there is a difference between a special relationship with Israel and an exclusive relationship with Israel. I believe in the former and Chuck Hagel believes the former."

Miller is being approached because he reported Hagel's view of the "Jewish lobby" in the notes to his book back in 2008. I picked that up then and wondered whether journalists would pick up on the charges:

[Hagel told Miller,] "The political reality is that... the Jewish lobby intimidates a lot of people up here." Hagel then related a meeting he had in New York with a group of supporters of Israel who are pushing the U.S. to attack Iran. When Hagel said it hadn't worked out that well in Iraq, a couple of members of the group said he wasn't supportive enough of Israel. Hagel spoke firmly: "Let me clear something up here if there's any doubt in your mind. I'm a U.S. Senator. I'm not an Israeli senator. I'm a U.S. Senator. I support Israel... But my first interest is, I take an oath to the constitution of the United States. Not to a president, not to a party, not to Israel." Gee.

Several writers have suggested that Chuck Hagel could get the Bobby Ray Inman treatment. Admiral Inman was nominated by President Bill Clinton to be Secretary of Defense in the mid-90s but was opposed by the Israel lobby. "It was [the late] William Safire who went after him," Peter Voskamp recalled in a note. "Then, after Inman held a press conference explaining why he pulled himself out of the running, the media gave him the Howard Dean treatment, suggesting that he showed himself to be a rambling weirdo and good riddance."


Walt recommends him. Good enough for me.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is why he probably won't be chosen.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, I'd almost forgotten about that guy. He's the one that Republicans were mocking as "Chuck Hagel (R- France)" during the Freedom Fries era.

But he certainly wouldn't be the first SOS to tick off the Israel Lobby. Anyone remember James Baker?
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Zackback



Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Kyungbuk

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought this was going to be about Hegel (George Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel).

It's too early in the morning..............
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other hand wrote:
Hey, I'd almost forgotten about that guy. He's the one that Republicans were mocking as "Chuck Hagel (R- France)" during the Freedom Fries era.

But he certainly wouldn't be the first SOS to tick off the Israel Lobby. Anyone remember James Baker?


He's a vet too. It's amazing how the GOP has (or had) so many chicken hawks that talk so harshly to combat vets like Hagel and yet there is little outcry about it. Disgusting.

And he's not in the running for Sec. of State; this is for the dept. of defense. Also, Baker was sos for a Republican President when that party wasn't so fervently pro-Israeli.
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And he's not in the running for Sec. of State; this is for the dept. of defense.


Ah, yes. I stand corrected.

Quote:
Also, Baker was sos for a Republican President when that party wasn't so fervently pro-Israeli.


True. Also, it remains the case that Bush I lost the subsequent election. The administration's mideast policy might not have been the reason, but it still means that you can't say, as an irrefutable claim, that being insufficently pro-Israel incurs no electoral damage.
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe in an Israeli state but I don't condone all their actions. Specifically with regards to America, what I don't like is that both parties pretty much have to kiss AIPAC's ass as well as condone damn near everything Israel does in order to get elected. Florida being a swing state makes it that way.

I also don't like that Americans decide who to vote for based on their ancesteral home and in some cases a country they've never been to. Everyone has an affinity to their country or countries of origin but we're Americans first. I don't like specifically some feel if not your overly loyal to Israel you're some how any number of things ranging from anti semetic to anti American.

We should be doing whats best for America and fair. If that supports Israel then so be it, if it doesn't then it doesn't.

The same goes for Mexico and Cuba.
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catman



Joined: 18 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zackback wrote:
I thought this was going to be about Hegel (George Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel).



Me too. Laughing
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuck Hagel and the Mysterious Phony "Anti-Semitic" Quote

Quote:
[Bill Kristol misquotes Hagel] as referring dismissively to "the Jewish Lobby," and say[s] no more.

Quote:
“The political reality is that … the Jewish lobby intimidates a lot of people up here.” (Hagel interviewed in Aaron David Miller’s 2008 book The Too Much Promised Land)


Via Justin Raimondo*, I think I spot a problem. The quote isn't merely redacted. It's partly fabricated. Miller calls Hagel "honest," and describes his way of thinking without quite endorsing it -- and without saying he's got an issue with the Jews.

Quote:
"This is an institution that does not inherently bring out a great deal of courage," Hagel continued. "Most of the time members play it safe and adopt an 'I’ll support Israel' attitude. AIPAC comes knocking with a pro-Israel letter, and 'then you’ll get 80 to 90 senators on it. I don’t think I’ve ever signed one of the letters.'

When someone would accuse him of not being pro-Israel because he didn’t sign the letter, Hagel told me he responds: "‘I didn’t sign the letter because it was a stupid letter." Few legislators talk this way on the Hill. Hagel is a strong supporter of Israel and a believer in shared values. "The Jewish lobby intimidates a lot of people up here," but as he put it, "I'm a United States senator. I'm not an Israeli senator."


The "political reality" line, which makes Hagel sound like he's importing even greater power to the Jews, doesn't appear. Anywhere. Earlier in the book, the author himself argues that "too often American political leaders and diplomats have forgotten that 'fair and effective' means refusing to give Israel carte blanche to influence, let alone impose, its views on America's tactics and strategies." But half of this "Hagel" quote is fake.

Maybe it doesn't matter. The idea that Hagel would slide through the Senate -- hey, he used to be in it! -- ignores just how much time he spent whaling on fellow Republicans during the last half of his second term.


Dave Weigel is correct on both counts; there's a neo-con campaign against Hagel, and there are too many other significant obstacles for Hagel to become Secretary of Defense, anyway.

[edited to correct Secretary]


Last edited by Kuros on Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why does Bill Kristol have any creditability? Why does anyone listen to what he says and writes?
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caniff



Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear Washington and its environs are a swell place to reside:

http://www.mint.com/blog/trends/a-visual-guide-to-us-income-distribution-122011/

Rolling Eyes

It'd be easy to show the governmental bloat and which counties have seen the largest growth in income, but why bother. We all know.

Oh I forgot, I'm supposed to shut up (I don't live in those zip codes).

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-18/chart-day-death-americas-middle-class

Quote:



The federal government does redistribute wealth down to struggling Americans. But in the years since President Lyndon Johnson took aim at poverty in his first State of the Union address, there has been an increasingly strong crosscurrent: The government is redistributing wealth up, too - especially in the nation's capital.



The beneficiaries are not the billionaire financiers and celebrities who
have come to personify income inequality in the 21st century. Yet the
Washington elite are just as much part of the trend, having influenced
laws and decisions that alter the entire country's distribution of
income.


A den of thieves.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Debate Over Hagel

Daniel Larison wrote:
While ideology is always a factor in support for and opposition to a given Cabinet appointment, I cannot recall a recent instance when a possible presidential appointment was subjected to so much criticism on what appears to be purely ideological grounds. Many Republican hawks are treating Hagel’s likely nomination the way that some activist groups would treat a Supreme Court nomination or a vice presidential selection. All of the opposition to Hagel so far comes from people who object to him because of what he thinks and what he has said. So far, no one seems to be making the argument that Hagel would be a poor fit at the Pentagon or that he would do a poor job running the department. On the contrary, the hawkish fear and his supporters’ hope are the same, namely that he would be only too effective in making some meaningful changes on military spending and the administration’s willingness to wage unnecessary wars.


Sharp opposition to a possible Republican Secretary of Defense comes primarily from the Republican party. On ideological grounds.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: DC area

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Washington Post is against his nomination

You know it's a bad editorial when a) it makes you even more convinced that the opposing view (Hagel is a good choice) is correct. b) the comments are nearly all against the editorial.

Quote:
Mr. Hagel took a very different position when asked about Mr. Panetta’s comment during a September 2011 interview with the Financial Times. “The Defense Department, I think in many ways, has been bloated,” he responded. “So I think the Pentagon needs to be pared down.”
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catman



Joined: 18 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In fact, some observers would see his nomination as “payback” to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who clashed repeatedly with Obama during his first term over Jewish settlement expansion in the West Bank and his repeated threats to attack Iran. Netanyahu also made little secret of his preference for Republican Gov. Mitt Romney in last month’s presidential election.


http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/12/19-0
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuck Hagel and the Neocon Smear Machine

Robert Wright wrote:
What is the evidence that Chuck Hagel is anti-Semitic, or at least borderline anti-Semitic? Apparently he once said, "The political reality is that ... the Jewish lobby intimidates a lot of people up here [on Capitol Hill]." The Weekly Standard's anonymous "top Republican Senate aide" is quoted as calling this "the worst kind of anti-Semitism" because it means Hagel "believes in the existence of a nefarious Jewish lobby that secretly controls U.S. foreign policy."

Actually, it doesn't mean that. It means what it says: Hagel believes that AIPAC, like the NRA, is powerful enough to sometimes intimidate legislators. Now, it does follow that AIPAC and the NRA influence policy in their domains, but not that they "control" it. If this "top Republican Senate aide" doubts that AIPAC or the NRA influence policy via intimidation, that's just more reason to wonder whether such a person actually exists. I don't see how you could work in the Senate and be sentient and be oblivious to such facts.


Titus, AIPAC's receiving a lot of heat in the media. I think their campaign is backfiring.
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